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Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by DoreenMichele on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @07:44PM (#21265382)
This is a very awkward situation for blizzard, one they have ultimately created

How do you figure they created it?

Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by Latty on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:05PM (#21265540)
All these companies should refuse to self-censor for China. China does want western media and products. The fact that companies capitulate makes that the standard practice, and means China feels safe demanding it (or doesn't even need to because of the chilling effect). They can make a spectacle of any one company that refuses. I'm not saying that China wouldn't just ban them all, but it would at least mean there is a cost to China in doing it.

Yeah, that's putting profit at risk, 100%. That's precisely why it's so important that western audiences tell these companies that they'll loose western business if they capitulate—it has to be made the economic least-bad option to stand up to China for it to be common.

They created the situation by capitulating. Yeah, it turns out morals are at odds with profits. Who'd have guessed.

Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by saagarjha on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:24PM (#21265683)
> China does want western media and products.

Does it? It seems like China replicates products that are inconvenient to get otherwise.

Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by magashna on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:52PM (#21265914)
Quite a few Hollywood movies have made billions in China. This year alone, 3 US movies are in the top 10 grossing movies there, and they made about 7B
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by sushid on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @09:57PM (#21266289)
And those are very heavily self-censored.
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by manicdee on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @10:29PM (#21266479)
Why should they refuse to self censor in Chine while they are happy self-censoring elsewhere?
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by mensetmanusman on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @09:23PM (#21266106)
China has shown they will steal the source code and create a ‘home grown’...
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by wyldfire on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:25PM (#21265696)
You can't totally blame Blizzard. It's a Nash equilibrium, right?
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by ncallaway on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @07:49PM (#21265416)
They banned a player and stripped their prize-money for speaking out in favor of HK.

They did this in order to try and maintain access to Chinese markets, probably assuming that the US market wouldn't care.

Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by ikiris on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:14PM (#21265614)
And everyone else in the room at the time was terminated. Which was the amazing part that totally destroyed any attempt at high ground.
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by belltaco on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:22PM (#21265667)
Wrong, the casters were fired because they knew what was going to transpire and actively let it happen.
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by cjbprime on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:32PM (#21265757)
I don't think that's true, I believe the casters have said Blitzchung showed up on the live interview stream (it was remote) wearing the gas mask unexpectedly.

If someone is to cut him off and not let it happen, it's the job of the production crew. The job of the casters is to try to keep things entertaining and on the rails when the camera's live on them. It's not fair to punish casters for improvising a response.

Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by belltaco on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:41PM (#21265832)
>I believe the casters have said Blitzchung showed up on the live interview stream (it was remote) wearing the gas mask unexpectedly.

Nah that's wrong. Have you watched the live feed video?

Here's a translation of what was said by the casters.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/dfs7a...

So many mistruths being spread and believed as facts, it's sad really.

Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by cjbprime on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @09:20PM (#21266086)
Your interpretation is not in contradiction to mine, and I had watched the video.

I'm saying that the casters didn't know before the interview started that Blitzchung would wear a gas mask to it.

You're saying that during the interview they encouraged him. That's true. But a caster doesn't have many other options at that point, their main job is to keep things genial and entertaining. They are not the production team, who could have cut away from the interview at any time -- even before the casters started responding. The blame goes to production.

Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by gruez on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:47PM (#21265875)
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by vbezhenar on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @07:58PM (#21265490)
They banned him because he spoken about politics which have nothing with video games. I don't think that they tried to censor exactly HK speech. I guess they would have banned him if he would talk about Putin as well.
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by Rebelgecko on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:23PM (#21265678)
One one hand, sure he broke the rules. If they had said "don't do that any more", or given him a slap on the wrist it would be understandable. But they banned him for a year and revoked the winnings he had already received in tournament play—

Blitzchung got a worse punishment than people who got caught cheating at Blizzard games. I think that says a lot about where their priorities are.

Based on past events (even Blizzard's own presentations at Blizzcon) it's already clear that the rule against offending people is being selectively enforced.

Edit: And I'm presuming it's being selectively enforced based on who is offended by a statement.

Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by tgsovlerkhgsel on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @09:25PM (#21266119)
> One one hand, sure he broke the rules.

This is a very generous (towards Blizzard) interpretation. The rules weren't "no politics". The rules were a generic "don't piss us off or do anything we may find objectionable", basically.

Per the Verge, 'The rule in question forbids players from doing anything that “brings [them] into public disrepute, offends a portion or group of the public, or otherwise damages [Blizzard’s] image.”'

It's designed to be arbitrary, because if you were to strictly enforce it anyone would violate it simply by existing nowadays.

Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by kmonsen on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:14PM (#21265613)
The Chinese version of the Blizzard statement was different: https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/10/verified-chinese-bli...

It included we will defend the honor of the nation, making it clear exactly what he did wrong.

Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by belltaco on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:23PM (#21265680)
Posted not by Blizzard but by Net-Ease, a Chinese company that isn't owned by Blizzard.
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by detaro on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:29PM (#21265731)
At the same time posted by a company officially representing Blizzard, unchallenged by Blizzard, and thus attributed to their brand.
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by magashna on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:54PM (#21265921)
> NetEase also partners with Blizzard Entertainment to operate local versions of Warcraft III, World of Warcraft, Hearthstone, StarCraft II, Diablo III: Reaper of Souls, Overwatch in China

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetEase

Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by belltaco on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:58PM (#21265942)
They aren't owned by Blizzard.
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by magashna on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @09:16PM (#21266063)
I'd imagine a licensee, hosting nearly all their games, has much more responsibility in their public statements compared to Blitzchung
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by EpicEng on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @01:05PM (#21272699)
I don't own the law firm I use to defend myself in court, but I do pay them to act on my behalf. Blizzard has also not done anything to backpedal on that statement. Honestly, how many mental hoops did you have to jump through to convince yourself that Blizzard doesn't endorse what NetEase said?
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by stale2002 on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @09:17PM (#21266070)
They officially represent blizzard.

If blizzard thinks that they said something wrong, then the burden is on blizzard to correct the matter.

Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by ryanlol on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @03:21AM (#21267910)
If belltacos lawyer makes a statement “belltaco supports child rape”, should we assume that belltaco is a nice guy just because he outsourced the vile statement?
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by Lazare on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:08PM (#21265561)
You reckon they'd have banned him if he'd worn a Elizabeth Warren campaign badge?

Really? Like...that's a thing you honestly can imagine?

Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by tutiospose on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @10:36PM (#21266521)
I believe they would have banned him if he said “Free Palestine.”
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by belltaco on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:13PM (#21265603)
Yes, because if unpunished, in the next game that will cause another player to wear a MAGA hat. And another to wear a shirt saying "ICE is just doing it's job". They cannot punish those guys because it will make them look biased. And it's all downhill from there.
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by tareqak on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @04:22AM (#21268210)
Make Azeroth Great Again [0]? You could by them at https://shop.esfand.tv/ before, but it’s currently under construction (the website’s <title></title> still has it in the name). I posted this in the original post of the story too [1].

[0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=494dkjXL3p4

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21190549

Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by danharaj on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @07:59PM (#21265501)
I believe that you believe that, but I'm here to tell you that your counterfactual is not realistic.
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by belltaco on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:02PM (#21265514)
The same pro player had expressed his HK independence support on his social media in the past, yet was allowed to play.
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by cthalupa on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @10:35AM (#21270794)
No one said anything about Putin, so we can't really argue that. I could pose another hypothetical and say I guess they wouldn't have banned him if he said he believes LGTBQ+ people deserve equal rights. We don't know because those didn't happen, making them not particularly useful statements.

What we can say is that the operator of Blizzard games in China, Net Ease, while posting about this incident under a Blizzard branded account, said that they would protect and defend the pride of China. Blizzard has not distanced themselves from this statement, "clarified" it, or done anything whatsoever to indicate that this stance is not the truth.

When someone you have authorized to represent you is making a statement in your name, it will be taken as being endorsed, unless you state otherwise.

Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by CocaKoala on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @07:47PM (#21265402)
If they had just not done anything when blitzchung made his statement in support of Hong Kong, it likely would have gotten essentially zero media play.
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by DoreenMichele on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @07:57PM (#21265480)
I haven't followed the situation closely, but we never get to A/B test such decisions. We make a decision and see the outcome for which one we chose.

Saying they created this situation is a little like blaming a casualty of war for living in the country they were born in. China exists and it's a large country with growing power that has fundamental cultural differences with the West and always has.

There may be better and worse ways to respond, but we have to recognize that everyone is, to some extent, just a bit player on a world stage where many other forces are in play. Not everything that happens in our lives is a thing we directly caused.

It's common to take it for granted when the existing world stage benefits us and wonder where we went wrong when it shafts us. Both views are only partial explanations at best.

Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by wbl on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @09:12PM (#21266039)
This isn't a fundamental cultural difference. This is a tyranny that brokes no dissent and murders its people to stay in power.
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by DoreenMichele on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @09:31PM (#21266150)
I took History of The Far East in college decades ago. The cultural friction between China and the West substantially precedes the current government of the country.

Regardless of what is going on there politically currently, they are a growing economic power. That makes them the proverbial 800 pound gorilla that people are increasingly afraid of pissing off for fear of financial consequences. They have one seventh of the world's population. It's a huge market that simply cannot be ignored.

Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by cthalupa on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @10:38AM (#21270824)
>It's a huge market that simply cannot be ignored.

True, if your motive is profit above all else.

Otherwise, it is quite simple to ignore China's demands. Create the products, services, etc. that you want to create. If people in China buy them, fine. If China says they'll buy them if only you do Thing X, if you do not morally agree with Thing X, simply do not do it.

There are near limitless numbers of businesses that are economically viable without catering to China's demands.

Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by DoreenMichele on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @11:59AM (#21271830)
Well, I don't know where communication went wrong, but I'm not talking about catering to China's demands. My original point was that this whole thing could have negatively impacted the company regardless of how they chose to act. I stated as clearly as I know how that it's probably a case of "caught in the crossfire" and blamed for being shot when the only way to escape the crossfire entirely would be "you shouldn't have been born in that time and place as it wasn't safe."

You can be a peacenik conscientious objector who refuses to take sides in the war and still get caught in the crossfire while minding your own business and trying your hardest to stay out of the fray.

Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by throwaway2048 on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @11:16PM (#21266730)
People that try to pin this as a cultural difference only need to look at Taiwan, which is a functioning democracy, and equally as Chinese.
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by blondin on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @11:59PM (#21266929)
wait what? why make it so complicated... the simple fact is that people are pissed because one of their own got a treatment they didn't like. i am not involved or following but i get enough in the news to figure what's happening. a simple google search will give you plenty.

also, this is not the first time the gaming community went against a company. and tbh i am not sure some young ones don't know or care much about politics of what's happening in the east. one of their own got sacked. that's all that matters.

so yes, they probably shouldn't have banned that player.

Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by detaro on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:17PM (#21265636)
Or just not went as overboard with it. Doing something might have been a good idea to still send a message (both to China and to players to please not repeat it), the tricky bit is not looking unreasonable while doing so. (e.g. certainly not rescind the price money)
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by tgsovlerkhgsel on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @09:27PM (#21266125)
But Blizzard would likely have lost access to the Chinese market.
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by belltaco on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @07:51PM (#21265438)
Wrong, it would have got huge media play in China as Blizzard not enforcing its rules in opposition to China. Just like the NBA issue.
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by Lazare on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:01PM (#21265509)
Highly debatable. It's by no means clear the rules should have been applied to this case; they were very vague "we can ban anyone for anything that makes us look bad", but what has made Blizzard look bad here has primarily been the enforcement of the rules.

If they had just played it off as the players speech, and nothing to do with them at all, it is by no means clear any significant blowback would have stuck to Blizzard.

The NBA issue is very different because the original tweet was from the general manager of a team with close Chinese ties. It's like if a Blizzard exec had expressed pro-human rights sentiments in an interview.

Obviously we'll never know now, but Blizzard did so much to increase the perceived importance of the event beyond where it would naturally have been (eg, their statement on an official account saying they would always "resolutely safeguard [China's] national dignity"). Once you've framed it in those terns, it's hard to back down. Were there really no alternatives though?

Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by kmonsen on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:16PM (#21265628)
Only if China decided to do so. They can pick a fight about anything they want to, so there is really no avoiding that.
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by khuey on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @10:05PM (#21266344)
For further evidence of that, look at what happened to Lotte, a Korean conglomerate that was essentially banned from China for the crime of having previously owned land that the Korean government used for a military purpose that China did not like.
Re:Blizzard Cancels Overwatch Event by throwaway2048 on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @07:50PM (#21265425)
They chose to be involved with China, who has been infamous for demands like this.