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Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by octosphere on Friday September 20, 2019 @10:14AM (#21026897)
Anyone find anything that Google does these days to be aggressively competitive? As a one-man startup guy, I feel everything I do pales in comparison to what Google are doing and I feel nothing more than /eclipsed/ by them. I have found myself wondering: "If you can't beat them join them" on many occasions. I probably should just merge into Google one day and stop my worrying?
Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by skrebbel on Friday September 20, 2019 @11:57AM (#21028095)
I'm a startup founder, and I've never understood this worry.

I know of scary few products by Google (or one of the other tech bigcos) that successfully wiped out an up-and-coming startup.

They did acquire quite a bunch, but can you name a successful Google product that killed a startup without acquiring it? I'm sure there are some but it can't be much. Docs, Android, Firebase, Maps all came out of acquisitions.

I mean, sure, they're super competitive, but my impression is that that competitiveness is mostly targeted at Amazon/AWS, Microsoft, Facebook, etc. I mean GCP is mostly just Google reimplementing the most popular AWS products with less cruft. That's super competitive but I'm curious how it threatens your one man business.

Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by cameronbrown on Friday September 20, 2019 @01:55PM (#21029443)
Without Google's resources Android, Maps, YouTube, DoubleClick and the like wouldn't be the powerhouses they are today. Take that how you will, good or bad.
Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by curious_fella1 on Friday September 20, 2019 @01:31PM (#21029189)
Was gmail made in house?
Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by antoinealb on Friday September 20, 2019 @01:56PM (#21029458)
Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by JohnJamesRambo on Friday September 20, 2019 @10:31AM (#21027071)
Just make something good and useful and don’t kill it and you will be exceeding Google in so many areas. Think marathon, not sprint.
Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by PerryCox on Friday September 20, 2019 @10:35AM (#21027108)
Yeah this is a good point, if you have a product with good support, that's one way you can out compete them.
Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by amelius on Friday September 20, 2019 @02:24PM (#21029761)
But don't be too successful, or you'll be copied by them.
Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by cpv on Friday September 20, 2019 @11:32AM (#21027829)
" Think marathon, not sprint."

I've seen this before as "Think long-term, not short-term". Sometimes it can be true.

Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by erikpukinskis on Friday September 20, 2019 @11:45AM (#21027979)
Every company has things they structurally cannot do well. Google scales? They can’t do customer service. Facebook has all the network effects? They can’t iterate rapidly. Tesla has the best electric cars? They can’t sell nostalgia.

That’s why people tell you to “be yourself”. It’s a rough proxy for “don’t be other people” which is a rough proxy for “don’t be something someone else is already succeeding at.”

But also, if you are really enamored of Google, maybe that means you should work towards getting hired there!

Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by jwr on Friday September 20, 2019 @10:23AM (#21026982)
It's easy: find a niche which is too small for Google or any other large company to bother with. There are plenty of those, especially if you look for something tied to the physical world (serving real businesses around you) and if you avoid the SV echo chamber (which means HN much of the time, too). In other words, don't try to be another Google, Facebook, Uber, or Bird. Do something specialized.

(I'm a self-funded entrepreneur)

Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by jrempel on Friday September 20, 2019 @10:20AM (#21026940)
Google can only do so many things. Every avenue needs to have a significant impact. Google is also a SV echo chamber. They have a lot of blind spots. Lots of room for smaller startups to carve a niche. After get large enough to get Google's full competitive attention another story.
Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by ok_coo on Friday September 20, 2019 @10:45AM (#21027249)
People once felt the same way about Microsoft. There’s ways to be competitive with Google for whatever you’re interested in. You can compete by having good customer service for your product. They’ve given that up to the algos.

I know I personally highly value the ability to talk to an actual human if I’m having a problem.

Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by close04 on Friday September 20, 2019 @10:51AM (#21027319)
As any sector matures it becomes harder and harder to truly "disrupt" (not talking about "fake disrupt" by being better because you take shortcuts even if it breaks the law). You see it in many other sectors, consolidation is key. Standing out, while not impossible, is improbable. This is not meant to discourage people from trying, you never know until you do.

But if big IT has learned their lesson they won't wait until you're too big to run you over. It's why everyone is on acquisition sprees these days, or simply incorporate tech and ideas into their products and use their sheer market share to drown smaller competitors they borrowed the idea from.

A niche may be different since no company can cover everything. But it's still uncertain when they choose to go there and go head to head with you. Google didn't overtake MS by playing in a niche. So I guess it depends on what your targets are.

Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by TX-i on Friday September 20, 2019 @11:04AM (#21027473)
Once felt the same way? Microsoft owns GitHub and part of the unix kernal now. Competition only exists to become assets to these companies.
Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by VikingCoder on Friday September 20, 2019 @11:10AM (#21027552)
The cost to move atoms and bits everywhere in the world is near zero.

This means that you could be the best in your field for hundreds of miles around, but your neighbors might still go on Amazon and order a product manufactured in China.

I worry about this.

Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by BurningFrog on Friday September 20, 2019 @11:26AM (#21027734)
It works both ways.

Find or invent a tiny niche and be among the best in the world in it, and the whole world (including China) will come to you for it.

Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by pyrale on Friday September 20, 2019 @02:48PM (#21029970)
And Amazon will take the lion's share of your benefits.
Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by notyourday on Friday September 20, 2019 @10:32AM (#21027078)
> Anyone find anything that Google does these days to be aggressively competitive?

they certainly do aggressively shutdown the products.

> I probably should just merge into Google one day and stop my worrying?

Every second you are worrying about what Google is doing rather than continuing to work on whatever you are working on is the second you are wasting.

Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by tozeur on Friday September 20, 2019 @10:59AM (#21027414)
They’ve always been aggressively competitive. You don’t become a 700B company playing nice
Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by reportgunner on Friday September 20, 2019 @10:25AM (#21026999)
Hang in there, the end is near.
Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by satanspastaroll on Friday September 20, 2019 @10:21AM (#21026958)
You are correct, google is trying to cover all sectors they can, and offer tools to join them even at a loss. After they own everything, they can start raising prices, dictate web standards and so on
Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by wongarsu on Friday September 20, 2019 @11:01AM (#21027443)
I think we can make useful distinctions here between Google services.

- Google Search/Ads and Google Cloud are money makers. They are constantly improved, handled with care and have prices comparable to the competition, maybe slightly lower

- Chrome is costing massive amounts of money. Between the massive development effort and the big worldwide marketing campaigns Google must have spent billions on Chrome in a play to protect their other services and dictate web standards. Android also belongs in this category, dictating a massive portion of the mobile market

- GMail/GSuite, Youtube, Google Home etc probably about break even. Like the previous category they are strategic plays aimed at controlling a market, and they are great for the brand. But since their markets are less valuable they are the step children

- lastly we have the experiments. Google has cut most of them, and you are probably better off not using them at all

Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by tudelo on Friday September 20, 2019 @10:52AM (#21027325)
They may run some operations at a loss, but overall?
Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by dantheman on Friday September 20, 2019 @10:32AM (#21027081)
Your worst case scenario has never happened.
Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by satanspastaroll on Friday September 20, 2019 @10:37AM (#21027131)
I'm quite sure a monopoly is not that alien a concept
Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by dantheman on Friday September 20, 2019 @11:00AM (#21027434)
A monopoly that keeps prices artificially low for years, drives everyone out of business, and then raises prices to make up for the years of lost profit -- I'd like to hear one example - it's never happened as far as i know.

Most monopolies have been government granted - railroads through free land, AT&T by creation, etc.

Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by wongarsu on Friday September 20, 2019 @11:20AM (#21027676)
You could argue about Microsoft. They started out by offering MSDos as a low cost option and now own close to the entire OS market.

Google is undercutting everyone in the mobile OS market. What once was a varied market died completely because nobody could compete with Android's "it's free if you agree to preload a bunch of Google apps" (iOS isn't really on the market since its Apple exclusive, LG can only reasonably choose Android). Google makes all that lost income back because this creates a monopoly for the Play Store, and massively helps other Google services.

Not really textbook examples, but that's because the textbook example of selling at a loss to kill all competition and then raise prices is illegal in most cases

Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by icebraining on Saturday September 21, 2019 @05:21AM (#21034318)
Microsoft certainly drove almost everyone out of business, but I don't think you can accuse them of raising prices to cover for lost profits - a OEM Windows license is pretty cheap compared to other paid software, particularly before they started adding ads to it.
Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by nabnob on Friday September 20, 2019 @11:39AM (#21027901)
Amazon is doing exactly this - https://www.yalelawjournal.org/note/amazons-antitrust-parado...

>This Note argues that the current framework in antitrust—specifically its pegging competition to “consumer welfare,” defined as short-term price effects—is unequipped to capture the architecture of market power in the modern economy. We cannot cognize the potential harms to competition posed by Amazon’s dominance if we measure competition primarily through price and output. Specifically, current doctrine underappreciates the risk of predatory pricing and how integration across distinct business lines may prove anticompetitive. These concerns are heightened in the context of online platforms for two reasons. First, the economics of platform markets create incentives for a company to pursue growth over profits, a strategy that investors have rewarded. Under these conditions, predatory pricing becomes highly rational—even as existing doctrine treats it as irrational and therefore implausible. Second, because online platforms serve as critical intermediaries, integrating across business lines positions these platforms to control the essential infrastructure on which their rivals depend. This dual role also enables a platform to exploit information collected on companies using its services to undermine them as competitors.

This is also the same approach that Uber is using - charge artificially low prices for rides to undercut other cab companies, and eventually deploy self-driving cars and increase their prices.

Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by dantheman on Friday September 20, 2019 @04:39PM (#21031044)
They are claiming it could happen, not that it is happening.

Which is what I'm saying - people claim it happens, but it never has. It's near impossible to corner a market without the government granting the monopoly.

Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by satanspastaroll on Friday September 20, 2019 @11:07AM (#21027509)
I believe the Rockefeller's General Oil was dissolved as an illegal monopoly.

It used it's massive, over 90% share of the market (and it's vertical supply chain) to deter competition, and made deals with other suppliers to make the inertia of competing a herculean task

Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by spc476 on Saturday September 21, 2019 @01:47AM (#21033729)
While a company that controls the majority of a market may be the text book definition of a monopoly, it's the the legal definition in the US. The US law recognizes that a company may naturally (and legally) gain a majority market share (even 100%) and be left alone. It's only when a company with such control over a market uses that to leverage control over another market that it becomes illegal under US law.

Standard Oil owned 90%+ of the oil refineries in the US (they never did drill for oil) yet that wasn't why Standard Oil was broken up. They were broken up because they were using their influence with oil to control the train industry, specifically, train transport of oil. [1]

Microsoft wasn't threatened with breakup over their operating system monopoly on desktop computers, but because they were using that influence with at attempt to control the web browser industry.

[1] And ironically, it was the breakup of Standard Oil that made John. D. Rockefeller the richest man in the world. He was also responsible for saving the world's population of whales. [2]

[2] Half-serious here. Whale oil was big business, until Rockefeller made petroleum products cheap enough to supplant whale oil as a product.

Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by dantheman on Friday September 20, 2019 @04:38PM (#21031031)
During the rise of standard oil the price of oil went down, it did not go up. Competitors fought and complained that they couldn't compete because standard was vertically integrated and got it broken up.

But the price did not go up.

Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by BurningFrog on Friday September 20, 2019 @11:27AM (#21027750)
When did one company last "own everything"?
Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by adventured on Friday September 20, 2019 @10:36AM (#21027129)
Google isn't doing anything new + interesting at all.

I consider Google to be one of the giants that are entirely irrelevant in competitive terms. They almost comically stay in their lane: search, YouTube, search, Gmail, search, search, ads, search, Android, search, search, Google Cloud, search. Every ten years or so maybe they'll add something.

I consider Google to be a company that never has to be considered when I'm thinking about building something.

I have no plans to launch my own massive operating system (what small team is going to do that anyway). I have no interest in doing a common search engine. Competing in the streaming space with YouTube, Netflix, & Co. is a nightmare of licensing & rights problems (and it's very saturated). The last thing I'd ever want to do is run an email service (thankful for those that do it well). AWS, Azure, and 37 other cloud service providers already exist, no need to reinvent that wheel and compete with Google Cloud (they're not the most competitive there anyway).

Google search is 21 years old. Gmail is 15 years old. YouTube is 14-15 years old. Android is 11 years old. Google is gray.

So what else is there? That just leaves 99% of everything else that I never, ever have to worry about Google competing seriously in.

Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by xiphias2 on Friday September 20, 2019 @11:07AM (#21027511)
Of course every mature product has is more than 10 years old: it takes 10 years to get to a point when the product itself is mature.

Google is the first company that started to spend money on productionize self driving technology. It takes time to get to market, because the problem is super hard.

If you want something newer that probably won't go away any time soon, Tensorflow is a few years old, and TPUs are also just a few years old. Google has many of the best and biggest number of AI researchers, and it's not shy to use the AI infrastructure in production.

Re:Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in ... by sweeneyrod on Friday September 20, 2019 @11:13AM (#21027585)
> Google isn't doing anything new + interesting at all. If they're not, what large company is?