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Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by londons_explore on Sunday September 01, 2019 @05:04AM (#20851264)
It's notable that this report is completely consistent so far with the way I would design a cyber attack to take out a countries power grid.

> The causes provided by RWE for the initiation of the trip of Little Barford steam turbine (ST1C) was due to discrepancies on three independent safety critical speed measurement signals to the generator control system.

A cyber attack would most likely, rather than directly take capacity offline, instead make the system less stable by attempting to make safety systems not work properly. That has the benefit that the attack will be triggered at th exact same time as another incident, increasing the impact.

Injecting false values for a sensor reading is a very good way to hide your tracks as an attacker - just inject a bunch of "0" values, and then uninstall whatever malware did it, and probably nobody will ever find out why that sensor randomly acted up.

Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by mojomark on Sunday September 01, 2019 @12:23PM (#20853087)
> Injecting false values for a sensor reading is a very good way to hide your tracks as an attacker - just inject a bunch of "0" values, and then uninstall whatever malware did it, and probably nobody will ever find out why that sensor randomly acted up.

That may be for legacy machinery control systems (MCSs), but modern MSCs and increasingly wise to such threats as they monitor and archive all critical control system signals at the subsecond sample rates, such that sensor anomalies are detected in near real time and logged for future anaysis. You would not only need to hack the individual sensor signal, but you'd need to also know how to disrupt the MCS ladder logic that knows how to bypass a sensor putting out bad signals to keep the machinery system stable. Not an easy feat.

Personally, I mainly get involved in this data after the fact for energy optimization. However, the folks that design the systems complete Failure Mode and Effects Analysis (FMEA) in attempts to thwart failures and attacks at any concievable level. Still further, greater protection in terms of first line of defense firewalls and PKI certs between subsystems and components, making getting access to these bits int he first place increasingly difficult whereas these systems used to be virtually unprotected for any ding dong to tap into.

Sure, there are still holes, and probably always will be, but the efforts of MCS designers to protect their systems grows and the automation intelligence being developed to govern these control systems will provide an additional level of protection (and a known point of vulnerability).

Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by std_throwaway on Sunday September 01, 2019 @07:27AM (#20851700)
An even more stealth method is to make the system work perfectly if everything is running fine. Like correctly reporting net frequency in the range 49-51 Hz but reporting false values when outside of that range. That way there will be no detectable errors until everything starts behaving erratically.

The best way for a society to prepare is to have a few small incidents that put the safety systems to the test on a regular basis.

Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by KyleJ61782 on Sunday September 01, 2019 @08:22AM (#20851885)
This. Very much this. In the presentations I've seen on the matter, the most vulnerable systems are those measuring and carrying telemetry back from various meters around the power system. One doesn't have to directly compromise the system to have an effect. Simply providing bad data to automated protection systems could be enough to cause instability.
Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by aidos on Sunday September 01, 2019 @11:35AM (#20852792)
A lesson Knight Capital learnt the hard way.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Capital_Group

Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by Ntrails on Sunday September 01, 2019 @11:43AM (#20852846)
There but for the grace of God...
Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by Reason077 on Sunday September 01, 2019 @12:07PM (#20852982)
”Like correctly reporting net frequency in the range 49-51 Hz but reporting false values when outside of that range.”

You can’t fake the system frequency like that. Anyone connected to the grid can observe/measure the system frequency trivially - you could do so right now at the nearest 10A socket. The attack you describe would require compromising large numbers of diverse, distributed generation and frequency response assets.

It would be like trying to fool everyone into thinking it’s a hot day by hacking every single thermometer!

Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by delfinom on Sunday September 01, 2019 @12:17PM (#20853057)
Yep. Once one meter starts reporting the wrong frequency vs the thousands of other ones. It'll simply be taken offline and replaced because it could just be a broken one. Depending on severity, the gig could be up if the meter is sent back to the manufacturer for "repair".
Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by Aeolun on Sunday September 01, 2019 @08:45AM (#20851974)
Chaos monkey for your electricity grid!
Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by _def on Sunday September 01, 2019 @10:45AM (#20852534)
Reminds me of stuxnet
Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by FartyMcFarter on Sunday September 01, 2019 @12:08PM (#20852986)
Stuxnet was damaging equipment by running it in slightly bad ways once in a while.

That seems to be a quite different attack from something that causes a sudden outage.

Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by kylegordon on Sunday September 01, 2019 @11:43AM (#20852847)
Likewise. Sadly not many people in this thread seem to be aware of this method.
Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by beamatronic on Sunday September 01, 2019 @11:09AM (#20852676)
Well, that and decentralizing your power infrastructure.
Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by justapassenger on Sunday September 01, 2019 @01:20PM (#20853405)
Decentralized grid will have less ability to deal with spikes in load, and be more unstable as a result. Question in cases like this is often - do you want to have a lot of smaller outages all the time or bigger, but less common outages.
Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by devnulloverflow on Sunday September 01, 2019 @09:27PM (#20856115)
The answer to the genre of questions is that you always want fewer small problems, and more day-to-day efficiency...

... until the big disaster actually happens at which time at which point it's simply criminal that such things were allowed to happen.

Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by HenryBemis on Sunday September 01, 2019 @07:39AM (#20851738)
> A cyber attack would most likely..

When I was discussing the two interruptions (one on the 9nth and a smaller one on the 24th) with friends, I suggested that this could have been an attempt to map out UK's infrastructure/SCADAs, and they thought that my sandwich had too much consiracy sauce in it.

Remembering how Stuxnet interefered with Iran's nuclear centrifuges, this could very well be something similar. Just scratch it a bit, where it matters most, and let it sink on its own. No point blasting a huge hole in it.

Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by Zenst on Sunday September 01, 2019 @11:42AM (#20852839)
I personally knew the chap auditing SCADA in power distribution back in 2001, so I'm fairly confident the level of competence and what governmental bodies handle such issues.

But nothing is perfect, and whilst an edge case, space weather can and does wondrous things to pylons. It's planning for such outages and the layers of vulnerability in systems that such an event can expose in which you want top people on the case and planning around such exposures. After all, you don't want your fallback site all secure but nobody put the electric security doors on their own redundant power. Might end up with such doors opening automaticly and allowing anybody in, or not oipening and preventing access to the big red switch to failover onto some backup system. Things like that you just can't overlook.

But with power-grid distribution systems, their will always be a few weak points, case of if these three transformers suddenly went offline the cascade effect would be horrific. It's those cases you need to plan for. After all, 3 lorry accidents crashing into those transformers, whilst not very likely to happen at the same time - people win the lottery every week with much higher odds.

Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by mantap on Sunday September 01, 2019 @07:58AM (#20851802)
If that was the intention it backfired because it highlighted several problems to National Grid that they weren't aware of before.
Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by yebyen on Sunday September 01, 2019 @08:53AM (#20852012)
There is some version of reality in which this was the point, if we are more charitable to the attackers motives
Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by PeterisP on Sunday September 01, 2019 @08:41AM (#20851956)
The 2015 attack on Ukraine power grid (https://www.wired.com/2016/03/inside-cunning-unprecedented-h...) may be relevant here.
Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by danw1979 on Sunday September 01, 2019 @08:33AM (#20851925)
It didn't sink itself though. There was no loss of the entire grid.
Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by IAmGraydon on Sunday September 01, 2019 @09:06AM (#20852068)
Except that you would have no control over when the outage happens as you would have to wait around for a random lightning strike to initiate the chain reaction. This outage lasted a very short time. An attacker would likely want to take advantage of the power loss in some way, meaning control over the timing would be pretty important.
Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by slovenlyrobot on Sunday September 01, 2019 @08:41AM (#20851958)
Does that complete consistency include simulating a lightning strike to a transmission line?
Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by londons_explore on Sunday September 01, 2019 @10:59AM (#20852616)
That happens on a regular basis anyway. Probably wouldn't have to wait more than a week for it to happen naturally.
Re:What Happened in the UK Blackouts? by biggt on Friday September 06, 2019 @06:34AM (#20894474)
This blackout destroyed our microwave. When the power come back on so did the microwave. But I already removed the rice. I guess being run for minutes with nothing it burned it out.