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Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by tosser0001 on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @12:27PM (#20748811)
For whatever reason, I was struck watching the special on PBS, "Woodstock: 50 Years Later".

Everybody was thin. It was sort of amazing when you stopped and really noticed it, then contrasted it to what you see on a day to day basis out on the streets. There just weren't any overweight people to be seen, at least nowhere near approaching the magnitude you see walking around today.

There's got to be some cultural component to all this too. I'm not sure the built environment is really all that much different than from what it was when I was a kid in the suburbs. It's as if people just collectively stopped using their bodies and started consuming more calories.

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by idoubtit on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @01:37PM (#20749659)
The demographics is worse than what is seen in the streets, because of the correlation between overweight and outdoor activities. The CDC facts are that 39% of the American adults are obese and 75% are overweight (including obesity). So overweight is the norm, and thin people are the exception. As the tendency is stable, I wonder if a "hidden minority" lobby will emerge in a few years, claiming that TV speakers and movie actors are too thin to represent the average citizen.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by Retric on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @01:50PM (#20749778)
Young people still tend to be significantly less overweight. https://www.stateofobesity.org/obesity-by-age/

However, you do see more overweight people on modern films than in the 50’s. What’s really odd some characters where supposed to be noticeably overweight, but they don’t seem that way to modern eyes.

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by lostapathy on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @02:22PM (#20750223)
Curious - do you have examples handy of characters like you described who were "overweight for the time" but don't seem so today?
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by krustyburger on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @03:09PM (#20750774)
Even going back just to the 90s, characters like George Costanza were meant to look noticeably overweight but look fairly typical by 2019 standards. And Homer Simpson weighed a very specific 239 pounds, a weight that seems much less extreme now.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by flukus on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @08:51PM (#20753739)
On the extreme end there was John Candy (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001006/mediaindex?ref_=nm_phs_m...), he used to be "the funny fat guy" but if he were to cameo (and be alive) today I don't think he'd stand out like he used to.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by Mountain_Skies on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @09:08PM (#20753801)
Lumpy in Leave It to Beaver. Augustus Gloop in Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory (1971). This one is really interesting when you compare the 1971 character to that from the 2005 version. If there was a new version made today, the might need to make him even bigger.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by masonic on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @05:47AM (#20755800)
In the film, "To Sir, With Love", the boy called "Fats" would be probably average nowadays, even in the U.K.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by tomjen3 on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @03:40PM (#20751104)
I haven't seen Friends, but supposedly Fat Monica had to be made fatter and fatter as she appeared over the years.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by qserasera on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @05:19PM (#20752294)
They even changed the baseline overweigh and obesity metrics to have less people designated as a problem.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by Buttons840 on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @07:56AM (#20756462)
Source? Was 24.9 not always considered healthy? I've read studies where 20 to 22 BMI has the lowest mortality rate, and it seems reasonable to add a little padding on either side for such a roughly measured metric.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by okmokmz on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @12:35PM (#20748904)
I wonder if the industrialization of food and agriculture and the increase in processed foods is part of the reason
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by tosser0001 on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @12:52PM (#20749115)
I can only speak from what I saw all around me growing up in the US, but people were eating some comically terrible stuff back then. People grew up on white Wonder bread and shoveling raw sugar out of the bowl onto their cornflakes, etc.

I don't think it's the industrialization so much as the quantity.

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by SketchySeaBeast on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @12:56PM (#20749171)
I remember the 90's "part of this complete breakfast" was cereal, toast, and a glass of orange juice, and my parents thought they were eating healthy. I think people are just more aware now.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by planteen on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @06:15PM (#20752750)
I mean a bowl of Cheerios, whole wheat toast, orange juice, and a banana is what I had every morning before school. I would consider it a pretty healthy breakfast, even by today's standards. I guarantee you most people eat much worse than that.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by okmokmz on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @11:07AM (#20757924)
It's definitely better than pop tarts and chocolate milk but I still wouldn't consider that healthy. Switch the juice for water and cheerios for a source of protein and it would be much better

> bowl of Cheerios

carbs and added sugar

>whole wheat toast

better but still carbs

>orange juice

glass of sugar without fiber

>a banana

better than juice and added sugar, but still natural sugars.

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by SketchySeaBeast on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @08:39PM (#20753689)
That's big old pile of carbs. There's no fat and little proteins, only in the milk, which will have even more sugar.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by Apocryphon on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @01:52PM (#20749810)
Is raw sugar at least marginally more healthy than processed additives like HFCS?
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by Liquix on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @01:57PM (#20749878)
At present, we believe that the following conclusions are warranted. First, there is no unique relationship between HFCS and obesity. Second, there is broad scientific consensus that there are no significant metabolic or endocrine response differences or differences in health-related effects between HFCS and sucrose. [0]

As others have said, it's an issue of quantity. Consuming 10-30 grams of sugar daily - table sugar, corn syrup, high-fructose corn syrup, or otherwise - does not cause obesity and health problems. The World Health Organization recommends no more than 10% of one's daily calories come from sugar. [1]

The average American consumes ! 125 ! grams of sugar a day, with empty carbs accounting for up to 40% of caloric intake [2]. This 40% includes the simple, 'empty' carbohydrates found in processed breads, cereals, condiments, drinks - which are converted to glucose by the digestive system in minutes.

The amount - not the quality - of sugars in our diet is the problem.

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3649104/

[1] https://www.who.int/nutrition/publications/guidelines/sugars...

[2] https://www.thediabetescouncil.com/45-alarming-statistics-on...

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by ska on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @02:19PM (#20750167)
The problem with HFCS seems to be it's ubiquity and low cost, not its chemical makeup.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by Gibbon1 on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @10:24PM (#20754088)
My current understanding is sucrose gets converted to glucose and fructose pretty much instantly once it hits your stomach[1].

The difference is, no one dumps a dozen teaspoons of sugar per serving in home prepared food and drink. Where drink and processed food manufacturers carefully buffer their recipes to accommodate the equivalent amount of HFCS.

[1] Read though that low end processed foods and drinks often contain very high levels of fructose.

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by droithomme on Saturday August 24, 2019 @10:54PM (#20791075)
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by magashna on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @01:36PM (#20749638)
It's hard to notice when you've grown up here, but any Euro who visits the US will tell you how sweet our milk, bread, and other basics are. You can think you're eating healthy and still be having lots of sugars in your diet.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by lazypenguin on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @02:23PM (#20750227)
Yeah but just walk around Hamburg or London and you'll see equally as many overweight people. Hell, if you look carefully in a lot of developing countries you'll see more overweight people than you expect. I'd suspect it's slowly becoming a global phenomenon.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by nitrogen on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @02:22PM (#20750219)
I am from the US, and I often wish I could find half-sweet (or less) versions of things, even things I only eat rarely as a treat.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by xur17 on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @03:09PM (#20750779)
Maybe they should replace all of the "low fat" items with "low sugar" (and just reduce the sugar rather than replacing it with artificial sugar).
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by nitrogen on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @12:27PM (#20758796)
and just reduce the sugar rather than replacing it with artificial sugar

That's the key. I have a low-sugar protein powder but rarely use it because it's too sickly sweet with sucralose and I have to bury it in a ton of other ingredients.

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by jobigoud on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @03:44PM (#20751155)
I was surprised to learn than 50% of Europeans are also overweight (vs 75% or so in the US). It doesn't feel that way. It's crazy.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by Apocryphon on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @02:38PM (#20750425)
Anecdotally, Asian pastries, even local versions of western desserts, taste less sweet and rich for whatever reason.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by DanBC on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @12:59PM (#20749198)
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by rrauenza on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @01:34PM (#20749626)
Keep in mind that nicotine is an appetite suppressant. Some people wonder if the reduced number of smokers contributes.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by rolltiide on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @01:58PM (#20749888)
You made that conclusion from that?

Go to almost any music festival, especially ones people love to hate on, and you will find lean young people from cities

Your conclusion can only be coincidentally accurate. Hot trendy folks go to music festivals. The BMI of whats considered hot has only gotten thinner since the 1960s.

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by jschwartzi on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @02:41PM (#20750463)
Music festivals require a lot of walking, dancing, etc. which actually contributes a significant portion of daily activity. So I would actually conclude that being physically active is part of being a hot trendy person. There are tons of people who travel to festivals as a lifestyle.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by rolltiide on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @06:28PM (#20752849)
right, so the point is that you can't look at photos from a music festival from the 1960s or 2019s to understand what society looks like

OP's whole point is that everyone must have been lean and fit just because they were in a 50 year old documentary - about a music festival.

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by mgleason_3 on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:18AM (#20755379)
It is interesting. I remember thinking the same thing looking at old photos - everyone was slimmer. I grew up in the 70s.

40 years later we’ve got laws against large sodas, sugar, vending machines. And maybe it is just the easier availability of all those calories - but I remember getting giant cokes at Carls Jr. in the early 70’s, the school cafeteria food was lots of carbs and fat and you could eat ice cream every day if you wanted to.

We all know that “Studies say exercise programs don't work because people don't stick to them.” But I think it misses the subtle difference between exercise as a planned activity and exercise thats built into your daily life. When I was young, we played in the streets every day. I walked or rode my bike to school. For my kids, that almost never happened. Everyone is inside. We drove everywhere.

But we also know no-one can stick to a diet. So “eat less” isn't the answer either.

So, whats the answer? Personally, I think its both. So, the answer is to build a little more exercise into your life. Walk to work or bike or learn to dance. Try to eat less - Maybe only eat 2/3rds or 1/2 of each meal. And avoid carbs since it stimulate hunger later.

But, it would be great to have an actual fact-based answer as to what has happened.

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by teslabox on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @12:54PM (#20759027)
> But, it would be great to have an actual fact-based answer as to what has happened.

This would be inconvenient to the business models of Big Medicine and Big Food.

Good places to start an investigation are the official advocacy for replacing saturated fats with deodorized vegetable oils [1], the holy war against sweet forms of sugar (mix of fructose/glucose) instead of waging war on starch (chains of non-sweet insulin-stimulating glucose), the advocacy for chemical non-caloric sweetners (sucralose, etc), the contamination of the food supply with imitation foods (orange drink vs. orange juice, etc), and considering whether fortified grains is really the nutritional panacea it is supposed to be.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10536349

edit: added "non-caloric" and "sucralose"

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by cladari on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @12:07PM (#20758593)
I don't think it's possible to exercise your way to weight loss. A handful of Oreo's will negate an hour workout. Simply cutting out as much added sugar as possible will drop weight quickly on just about anyone. Cutting out sugar isn't really a diet but more of a habit change. I'm not saying don't exercise, I'm saying both are necessary for results.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by ameister14 on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @01:20PM (#20749465)
Cable television got huge in the 80's. Prior to that, there was just less consistent incentive to sit in front of the TV.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by bediger4000 on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @03:21PM (#20750907)
Ha ha. You youngsters make me laugh. Sitting in front of the TV was almost universal when I was a kid mid 60s - mid 70s. There might only have been 3 channels (4 if you lived in a big city with a PBS or independent) but we all sat around and lapped up that crap.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by senorjazz on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @03:49PM (#20751216)
I cannot speak for the US, but in the UK in the 80s sure we all watched telly, however kids programs were on from 3pm to 5:30pm. After that it was go outside.

I don't think you were having multiple channels with 24hours programming for kids.

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by bediger4000 on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @04:54PM (#20752020)
Like I said, 3 channels, ABC, NBC, CBS. We watched a lot of stuff that wasn't necessarily developed for children, but at the very least wasn't overtly "mature". The US FCC kept a tighter rein on what was on TV at the time. No swearing, no nudity, not much overt violence. You can see the effects of this in the shows that have survived as "classics" today. "The Brady Bunch" is non-controversial pablum, for example. Get home from school at 3:30pm, flip on the TV to watch whatever local TV host ran a few old Warner Brothers or Terrytoons animated cartoons. Maybe watch "The Lawrence Welk Show" or one of the regional pro-wrestling leagues that predated WWE or roller derby or some re-run, then network news, then Prime Time! The Brady Bunch, Charlie's Angels, westerns, lawyer shows, cop or detective shows, medical dramas, network and local news at 10 or 11pm.

I will grant you I'm smearing this out over time. Prime time shows in the 60s weren't the same as during the 70s, local TV cartoon hosts disappeared by about 1975 (no more Binky The Clown, or Cactus Jim or ...), and certainly what got re-run before network news and after 10 or 11pm local news changed.

This is totally ignoring the 6am - 12pm Saturday all-kids programming. Mostly badly-animated cartoons, some weird live-action ("Land of the Lost"), but all aimed at and advertised to children. You could waste all Saturday watching crappy animation, then reeling around because you had lost your stereoscopic vision.

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by ameister14 on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @05:01PM (#20752101)
That might seem like the case, but television time among men went from about 12 hours a week to 20 hours a week from 1965 to 1995, and from 9 hours a week among women in 1965 to over 18 in 1995.

Among children, it's more dramatic - with kids watching 4.5 to 5 hours a day in the 90's.

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by bduerst on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @03:18PM (#20750867)
I mean, that could also be the result of some selection or survivor bias.

Such as, documentary producers had enough footage to exclude it from anyone who was not photogenic. Or the obese people who attended Woodstock didn't live to their 70s.

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by SamReidHughes on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @02:28PM (#20750306)
There certainly is a cultural component -- you'll see it if you live in San Diego and travel to the rest of the country.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by georgeecollins on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @03:57PM (#20751352)
It's kind of a cultural component but it is also the weather and the kind of people the weather self selects for. I lived in Del Mar for college a while back and a lot of people who trained for triathlons or liked to surf lived around there. In general people wore less bulky clothes and were more active. Even if that was not your profile at all, you were more likely to be self-conscious about not being healthy.
[dead]
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by _bxg1 on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @03:27PM (#20750964)
Lots of people are overweight purely because of hormonal/genetic factors, and couldn't lose it no matter how hard they were willing to work. Plus, depression is a contributing factor to weight gain, so maybe think twice before trying to shame people into losing weight.
Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by chiefalchemist on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @03:59PM (#20751367)
> "Lots of people are overweight purely because of hormonal/genetic factors"

Yes. That's true. But that's not why the obesity rate is so high. We know this.

As for depression, fair play. But let's not forget that many insist exercise is an effective way to deal with depression. Let's also be mindful that excess weight causes hormonal changes that are also mood-altering. So perhaps your cause v effect - at least in a good number of cases - is in reverse?

Finally, I never said shaming, nor did I imply it. What I said was, if we're going to normalize certain behaviors for individuals then we should not be surprised when those things spread "virally" throughout the rest of the society. So, to your point, when we normalize food as a means for self-medicating depression we're not doing anyone any favors.

To clarify. I agree with your thoughts in general. However, they are the 20% (at best). What about the other 80%?

I also like to add, we're doing it "your way" and frankly, it's clear to see, it's not working. The medical costs associated with T2 diabetes is massive. In nearly all cases, T2D is generally preventable.

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by _bxg1 on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @04:18PM (#20751617)
> when we normalize food as a means for self-medicating depression

I don't think literally anybody is normalizing that. Everyone knows that's unhealthy. You won't get criticized for pointing it out.

> Finally, I never said shaming, nor did I imply it.

> Mention anyone else's unhealthy habits (e.g., weight or lack of exercise) and you're label a bully.

You specifically mentioned not just habits, but weight, as something to be criticized. I think we've gotten pretty good as a culture about encouraging the right habits, but the weight itself is what many people have limited or no control over.

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by chiefalchemist on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @04:35PM (#20751795)
> " Everyone knows that's unhealthy."

For the last couple hours I watched a few dozen+ people order 20oz+ high-sugar coffee drinks from that place with the green logo. The everybody you're talking about is not here, nor is it at my local supermarket when every week I see people load up on soda, cookies, etc. People that clearly don't need the calories. So where is this awaremenss and knowledge?

> "the weight itself is what many people have limited or no control over." Yes, I realize it's a fairly complicated issue (e.g., gut bacteria likely play a role). However, that doesn't mean we normalize unhealthy decisions (like the ones I've mentioned above) and then cry about the cost of healthcare. We can't openly promote "love your body no matter what" and then purposely fail to add "and btw, you're going to die younger." We can't deny the value of exercise and replace that with "beat your depression with ice cream. it's ok..." That's just not working.

Yes. Agreed. Some people have medical issues (e.g., some neuro meds are notorious for putting on weight) but that's not everyone. That doesn't explain the obesity rate. And that certainly doesn't prevent humans from "gravitating to the norm."

p.s. For the record, I drink my coffee black. And there's a good reason why I've learned to do that.

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by chiefalchemist on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @04:51PM (#20751980)
I think this context might help:

"1 in 5 kindergarten children in NYC is obese."

"Nationally, healthcare expenses related to obesity is $1.72 TRILLION, which is almost 10% of the GDP."

https://www.wnyc.org/story/nyc-free-lunch/

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by nradov on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @12:36PM (#20758880)
This is incorrect. Hormonal and genetic factors can have a minor impact on appetite and metabolic rate. However all people will lose weight if they consume fewer calories than they expend.

Eating less isn't "work". It's literally the opposite of work. (I understand that some people find this emotionally difficult.)

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by _bxg1 on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @05:26PM (#20762005)
https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/why-people-be...

> Research suggests that for some people, genes account for just 25% of the predisposition to be overweight, while for others the genetic influence is as high as 70% to 80%.

Using Google also isn't "work", and neither is being considerate of others who don't have your exact same set of strengths and weaknesses.

Re:Rising rural BMI is the main driver of the global obesity... by nradov on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @06:26PM (#20762570)
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? For every person there is a level of energy input below which they will lose weight. Genetics plays a role but even in extreme cases the impact is no more than a few hundred kcal/day.

Being considerate is great, but making excuses and pretending that the laws of thermodynamics don't apply doesn't help anyone.