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Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by vultour on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:00AM (#20730524)
> “spin aficionado, dog lover, foodie, outdoor enthusiast.”

I don't know about marketing, but if I received a CV with this I'd most likely throw it straight in the trash. I don't want CVs to be unique, I judge people based on merit. The more basic the CV the better in my opinion. Just the other day I was slightly upset when someone showed me a candidates LinkedIn profile containing quite a non-professional picture because it immediately put me off a bit.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by jakear on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:10AM (#20730609)
The people who are writing resumes like this are doing it to avoid working at a place like yours. It’s a resume for people who want their company to care about its employees’ interests.
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by ajross on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:16AM (#20730665)
Exactly!

Hiring is a two-way negotiation, and while I'm sure the grandparent doesn't see it that way, assertive declarations like "I don't want CVs to be unique, I judge people based on merit." are a workplace smell that some people don't want in exactly the same way that photos in a CV are.

It makes the boss sound like someone who values conformance and hates diversity. Maybe unfairly, but impressions are everything at this stage of a relationship.

To wit: if you really want to hire good people "based on merit", you need to stop being so judgy about the oddballs.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by wallace_f on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:27AM (#20730744)
I don't really follow you. How is hiring based on merit a signal for valuing conformity and intolerance? It sounds like you are the one being judgmental.

Personally, I'd prefer to just be valued based on my skills and work product. The alternatives risk being possibly very bad in my experience: possibly valuing politics, nepotism, etc., which obviously gets toxic and unfair very quickly.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by ajross on Sunday August 18, 2019 @12:08PM (#20731027)
"Hiring based on merit" is obviously not. Declaring that you don't like fluffy CV's (which obviously has nothing to do with merit) BECAUSE you "hire based on merit" certainly can be.

I'm not saying people need to hire based on who's got a better photo on their resume. I'm saying that you shouldn't be surprised when people take your rhetoric about that stuff as a signal that you aren't going to be as fair a boss as you might think you are.

And maybe that's unfair. I've certainly never worked for you. But you need to be willing to market to free spirits if you actually want to hire the best people.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by wallace_f on Sunday August 18, 2019 @12:16PM (#20731079)
I am not the grandparent.

However, I really am a free spirit, having an exceptionally non-traditional path than most, and that is actually a good reason to want to work for someone who values skills and results foremost.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by ajross on Sunday August 18, 2019 @12:22PM (#20731128)
You're still arguing against a strawman. I'm NOT saying that you need to "value" fluffy junk on a CV. I'm saying that IF YOU PUBLICLY DISAPPROVE of that stuff (which we both agree is irrelevant to qualifications, right?) that you're driving away employees you might want, if you really valued skills and results foremost.

Don't be judgy about irrelevant stuff, is my point. Some people don't want to work for judgy conservatives, basically.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by scrungus on Monday August 19, 2019 @12:33PM (#20739224)
1. societies before us have seen the consequences of nepotism and corruption.

2. it is critical to remove subconscious bias in the hiring process.

3. the only effective means to do so as a society is to handicap those who take advantage of subconscious biases.

marketing in itself is less than a zero-sum game; it's players are parasites on the working class. we should all do our part to reduce it's effects.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by ajross on Monday August 19, 2019 @09:36PM (#20743168)
Those are fine opinions. And if you hire based on them, you're going to annoy and drive away otherwise talented folks who want to talk about their pets, brag about their surfing habits, and stuff emojis into their resume. And that's fine. You guys wouldn't like each other anyway.

"parasites on the working class" indeed.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by notus on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:43AM (#20730868)
People don't want to be judged by merit? Isn't that the essence of the value employees provide to a business?
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by maxaf on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:13AM (#20730632)
I don’t care about my colleagues’ interests. I treat them decently and with respect when we’re working together, but at the close of business we go our separate ways and pursue our interests any way we see fit.

Likewise, I don’t expect my coworkers to care about my hobbies. Most of them would be horrified to find out.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by jakear on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:18AM (#20730678)
Yeah. The person writing that resume doesn’t want to work for you, and you’d not hire them. The system works.
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by maxaf on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:28AM (#20730757)
You seem to be defending the perpetuation of bias: hiring based on properties of a person that are orthogonal to technical skill. Bias comes in many shapes and sizes. For example, hiring only white people would be a form of bias. Likewise, hiring only those who share the same interests as the hiring manager is a form of bias. Even looking out for the mere presence of an "interests & hobbies" section on the resume can be considered bias.
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by vharuck on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:43AM (#20730870)
Especially because hobbies and interests are influenced by culture. Even if "Jeff the HR guy" isn't racist, if he likes applicants with similar hobbies, then chances are it's effectively an ethnicity filter.

Bad things don't always come from malice.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by maxaf on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:56AM (#20730955)
Subconscious bias is the most insidious form thereof. This is why I'm a huge fan of stripping resumes of all but the most pertinent hard facts. Technical skills, projects worked on, publications are all relevant. Hobbies, family status, a photograph are all opportunities for subconscious bias to infiltrate the hiring process.

Often even education is no longer a useful signal. I've found myself looking away from educational information on resumes for all but the most junior of applicants. A candidate with even a couple of years of experience is lightyears removed from the school that has granted their degree. Likewise, a person with a similar number of years on the job but lacking a degree is similarly removed from their humble beginnings. There's no need to flaunt education.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by HeyLaughingBoy on Sunday August 18, 2019 @06:11PM (#20733255)
You forget that the resume works both ways, which is what GP was saying. You may want to only look at the facts that say if the candidate can do the job, but the candidate may want to know if, in a larger sense, you're the kind of company they want to work for.

In that sense, he's right: that system works for both sides.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by iamaelephant on Sunday August 18, 2019 @07:14PM (#20733562)
I'm not hiring purely on technical skill. Everyone I hire has to work with everyone else I've hired. There's more to that relationship than technical ability.
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by astura on Sunday August 18, 2019 @10:08PM (#20734351)
Sure, attitude, work ethic, communication skills, and professionalism are required as well.

Technical skills, attitude, work ethic, communication skills, and professionalism are really all you need to work with your colleagues successfully. Hobbies, pet preference, and exercise preference is irrelevant.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by jakear on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:41AM (#20730847)
If you consider a persons contribution to a company to be purely technical, your argument holds. I take it you might feel that way, I do not.
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by mancerayder on Sunday August 18, 2019 @12:01PM (#20730992)
How does a love of dogs and the outdoors (example above) contribute meaningfully to a tech role?

How about a love of dance or photography?

We go to work to get paid for our skills, not to go camping together or share our love of bird watching.

What if a hobby included volunteering at a church, mosque, local GOP or DNC fundraising HQ, re-enacting War simulations or practicing at a gun range?

I agree with the posters above who think this is, at best, useless and at worst, a potential for discrimination.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by yuhe00 on Monday August 19, 2019 @12:21AM (#20734865)
Tech roles comes in many forms. For example, I have worked a fair bit with graphics programming and VFX, where extensive knowledge of photography would be very useful.

I can imagine tech jobs where most of the hobbies you've listed could be considered relevant. Dance? Biometric sensor tech. Guns? Video games. And so on...

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by 50656E6973 on Sunday August 18, 2019 @09:31PM (#20734197)
Perhaps it signals the person has a healthy work life balance.

>We go to work to get paid for our skills, not to go camping together or share our love of bird watching.

Some people prefer to work on teams where they're treated more like humans and less like cogs in a machine.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by yosefk on Sunday August 18, 2019 @04:21PM (#20732573)
The trouble with technical skill is that you can't measure it with anything like an ELO rating, and it's not easy to prove that knowing a given bit of technical trivia really helps you be productive, or that a given non-technical skill or trait really doesn't help you be productive.

If you hire chess players based on individual performance and regardless of group dynamics, then an argument could be made (not entirely trivially in all cases but it could be) that looking at anything except their ELO is illegitimate bias (and in fact some famous players from Lasker to Korchnoi said themselves that it's this objectivity which attracted them to chess). With programming, or most professions involving something meaningful as opposed to a measurable but pointless (and usually measurable because it is pointless) activity aka sport, it's much murkier.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by bboygravity on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:23AM (#20730711)
Do you feel it is useful for you to go to an office at all?

If you're not going to bother getting to know your colleagues (to make communication more efficient) than what's the added value of going to an office at all?

Am I making wrong assumptions about the use of going to an office?

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by maxaf on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:25AM (#20730730)
I work remotely 95% of the time, so no, there isn't any use in going to an office. But the office-vs-remote axis is a red herring IMHO. Communication happens via a variety of mediums, and remote workers aren't reclusive hermits who never speak to anyone unless it's via JIRA ticket.
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by vultour on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:25AM (#20730734)
Avoiding CVs like these is a culmination of multiple factors, having a line that says "I like fishing, tea, and woodworking" can be completely acceptable. Packing it with obnoxious words like "afficionado" is a red flag to me.

I do wonder how putting your interests in the CV makes the company care? Where I work there is plenty of care regardless if you put it on your CV or not.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by mattkrause on Sunday August 18, 2019 @12:08PM (#20731029)
Woodworking might give you a (tiny) edge if the job is somehow mechanically-oriented, or maybe fishing signals an interest in the outdoors.

However, I’ve been told that it’s most useful as hook so that interviewers have something to remember beyond “dev from good school” or “consultant living in NYC”, which might describe a huge fraction of the candidate pool.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by bboygravity on Sunday August 18, 2019 @01:15PM (#20731475)
This makes sense.

Another use I've heard mention is that being into team sports could signal that you're trained at communicating and "working" in a team.

Not sure I buy that, but yeah that's what they taught us at school about building a resume.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by WalterBright on Sunday August 18, 2019 @09:01PM (#20734060)
> Packing it with obnoxious words like "afficionado" is a red flag to me.

I'm not so sure about that. I like using unusual words because it adds a bit of color. The words should still be natural, though, not like you were trying too hard.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by notus on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:02AM (#20730536)
This is actually a really good point. The more information you give in general just creates more vectors for unwanted biases.
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by paulcole on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:10AM (#20730598)
Also the #1 rule to creating a successful profile on a dating site. Say the absolute minimum and nothing more. Better to remain quiet and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by tluyben2 on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:25AM (#20730728)
I ran a big (for the region) general (as in not niche) dating site and I would say it is more nuanced than that. By far most people complaining that they did not get any interest had minimal profiles. When they wrote more, they got more. When they wrote too much, it went down again. So minimum as in; the minimum to entice, and I would say most people do not know what that is, so they write too little or too much as a result. Probably the same for resumes.
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by paulcole on Sunday August 18, 2019 @12:55PM (#20731343)
Your last point is probably accurate. I write professionally and have done so for 12+ years at this point.

I guess the tricky part is hitting the balance of writing just enough but not any more.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by afarrell on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:16AM (#20730657)
Huh? With dating, don’t you want to display your personality vibrantly so that you can more effectively filter for those who want to be with someone like you?
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by cthalupa on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:20AM (#20730691)
Well, maybe.

Sometimes compatibility isn't really based on shared interests or other things that, well, make sense. Sometimes people work out that you can't really rationalize.

It also depends on what type of dating you're interested in - it's way less important for casual dating and hookups. With that you're more likely to filter yourself out than increase the chances of success.

For more serious dating for someone that cares about their partner having shared interests, etc., then yes, being filtered out is a feature and not a bug.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by paulcole on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:20AM (#20730688)
You are making the common mistake of confusing actual dating with using a dating website.

The goal of the dating website is to get a date. You do that by finding someone who seems interesting and who does not have any red flags. Why put out more information than is needed and give more for people to find something wrong with you?

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by KaoruAoiShiho on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:25AM (#20730731)
Presumably OP wants a decent relationship rather than just another increment on his scorecard. But point taken if the goal is to maximize the number of yeses.
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by paulcole on Sunday August 18, 2019 @12:51PM (#20731321)
The goal on a dating site should always be to maximize the number of in-person yeses. You’re not going to figure out if you want a decent relationship by reading a profile. Meet in person for coffee and find out if it’s worth going on an actual date.
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by jvagner on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:19AM (#20730682)
No, you want to entice. The more you say, the more content you’re providing that will lead to a dismissal.
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by b_tterc_p on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:57AM (#20730970)
Unless... you don’t want to meet people who wouldn’t want to meet you due to knowing more about you
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by jvagner on Sunday August 18, 2019 @08:51PM (#20734009)
That works at deeper levels of the game. But in level one, it's not always advisable to hold too hard on this move.

Better to assume that most players on Tinder want Criterion, but pick Netflix.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by Nasrudith on Sunday August 18, 2019 @06:19PM (#20733320)
I thought the point of a dating profile was to filter out incompatible matches and avoid wasting everyone's time. Granted I am hardly an expert.
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by candybar on Sunday August 18, 2019 @03:51PM (#20732406)
This seems contradictory - if you're auto-rejecting CVs with information like that, you're not judging people on merit. I personally wouldn't include information like this myself and would ignore any such information on resumes but I don't see how this would disqualify someone - there are no resumes with just the information you need to judge the candidate, no one customizes resumes specifically for your personal criteria. Being upset that someone included information that you prefer not to see and throwing the resume out as a result seems even worse than judging people based on their interests - you are using arbitrary personal criteria that have nothing to do with merit to disqualify people.
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by seer on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:29AM (#20730761)
From being involved with non-anecdotal data sets on the subject I can say its actually the other way around.

With those little tidbits of virtue signaling that you choose to put in the resume usually give the opportunity for the reviewer to see you as more the “just a react dev” and depending on how many people your are competing with - gives you the edge.

Experience speaks for itself, and if you have the creds then sure those things can look like pure cruft, but what if you’re just starting out? You need something to stand out, and like it or not most reviewers are humans too, even worse - are not strictly technical, so if you for example like to run, mention that in your resume, and the HR person is also a runner, well he can recommend you based on “gut feeling” and how “runners are more emotionally stable and reliable” or some such.

And if by a chance their resume ends up reviewed and judged negatively base on non technical prejudice or something, well you’re better of not working there anyway, as it will probably be damaging emotionally in the long run.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by themagician on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:19AM (#20730685)
Outside of programming, skilled trades, and other more solitary jobs, “merit” isn’t that important. You start to look for things first like, “is this person going to get along with everyone o r be a problem,” and “am I going to enjoy interacting with them?” This is true for both high paying creative jobs and minimum wage work.

These days I’d rather hire someone slightly less qualified that’s easy to work with than someone who looks perfect on paper and is going to cause me all sorts of problems. Especially when you run a business and are responsible for HR issues.

I can’t even remember the last time I really read a CV. What someone’s done in the past is only relevant in certain instances.

Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by Arcanum-XIII on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:27AM (#20730741)
It is important in programming and other skilled trade, except if they’re going to work in a vacuum. A good fit for the team will always be a win over time.
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by WalterBright on Sunday August 18, 2019 @08:55PM (#20734030)
I find it off-putting when political candidates submit an unprofessional picture for the Voters Pamphlet. By unprofessional, I mean not wearing a decent shirt, for example.
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by jjeaff on Sunday August 18, 2019 @02:45PM (#20732033)
Hiring based only on merit is a good way to get a company full of assholes.
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by thosakwe on Sunday August 18, 2019 @06:29PM (#20733362)
A workplace where candidates get auto-rejected because their resume is in a different format, or because of a LinkedIn profile picture, is probably not where the person in the article might want to work. For many people, part of whether somewhere is a “good fit” for them depends on whether they can still live their same life after getting the job. If an employer is willing to reject applications just because of profile pictures (not so-called “merit”), actually working there is probably a similar experience.
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by wolco on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:45AM (#20730887)
Everything else aside if you are getting upset over someone's linkedin profile picture it could be a sign that you are at the end of your rope. Consider taking a break.. something like that should be funny or neutral. But not anger.
Re:Résumés Are Starting to Look Like Instagram, and Sometime... by vultour on Sunday August 18, 2019 @12:18PM (#20731101)
I got upset over someone showing it to me, not the contents.