IIRC the official explanation from the makers of Star Trek is that the displays look like simple touch screens, but they are actually overlaid with structured force fields, so for the users it feels like a physical button press.
By the way, are you "Le Jojo" of "Jojo on UI", or a different "that_jojo"? ;)
http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/unix-haters/x-windows/jojo-o...
The high voltage needed makes it a no go for most/all portable devices.
I played with some other "cl controllable friction" tech but don't remember the basis of it. Iirc one actually made small indentations in the screen to simulate buttons. Had a bunch of limitations, I think the button placement was baked in at time of manufacturing, but it's been awhile and I don't trust my memory on the topic.
You can twist virtually with good precision. But, what is much harder is the feel, state of the knob, particularly when it is released and then gripped again.
Mechanically, the structure of the knob can take some energy input, and it serves as a mechanical pivot, or fulcrum, depending on how people use a knob.
Without all those physical things, people lack the complex frames of reference needed for fine, "thought is action" type control.
This is especially true in environments where gloves are worn.
Have you ever used an iPod (capacitive touchpad) scroll wheel?
A good physical knob is still better, but a touch wheel can be made pretty decent.
A bigger thing (for me) is being able to sense gaps/shapes without pressing anything and a fixed layout - touchscreens are about the change but that's only good for UI that you look at.
Something that creates physical feedback is for example that Disney VR project where they use air to create the feeling of resistance
There's really no need to force this decision to go in either direction. Ever since I first heard of capacitive multitouch, going back to the timeframe before the first iPhone announcement, I've been waiting for someone to build 'stick-on' encoder knobs that the touchscreen controller can read.
These would simply take the form of a knob with a metal leaf or other polygonal electrode in its base, whose rotation could be sensed by code similar to that used to implement crappy 'virtual potentiometers' on existing touchscreens. The fixed part of the knob base would be epoxied or otherwise bonded directly to the screen surface, or perhaps held in place with some sort of frame.
Doesn't seem to have happened yet despite being an incredibly obvious (and inexpensive!) thing to do. Seems like the MIDI community would be all over something like this, even if no one else considered it worthwhile.
Being able to set the dial on the screen and just turn it is a really good-feeling workflow, though likely not for something as mission-critical as the article is describing.
>On-screen detection: Touch digitizer reports the onscreen location through a capacitive pattern (Studio only)
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-dial/925r551sktgn?...
I envision using cam levered suction cups to hold on rotary and linear sliders that had touch screen sensitive rubber tips. One could go as far to 3d print arbitrary interaction devices that could get attached to the face of the touch screen. You can use the multitouch sensor w/o the screen but still be able to configure arbitrary devices to go on the front.
I even had a design for joystick. Lots of analog opportunities when you have something like a back illuminated camera or a touch controller that can sense areas. You could also serially transfer data from the device to the touch screen, either using physical touches or electrically simulated touches.
I'd be surprised if the concept weren't already patented, though, just because the idea of a generalized capacitive control surface seems fairly obvious, and the patent office doesn't really apply an "obviousness" test. What definitely surprises me is that, patented or not, I can't just go out and buy these sorts of controls.
We would then be able to receive that pattern and understand how the knob is rotated.
What’s the resolution of todays touchscreen?
But for simple things, if possible without affecting the other parts of the screen, it'd be amazing to have a broadly supported, low bandwidth standard.
This might be as simple as "Here's my encoded position * frequency of sampling", but for a general interface you'd want something adaptable.
What if there were two dials on the control? Two dials and three buttons? One dial, four buttons, and a joystick?
Check this: http://huyle.de/2019/02/12/accessing-capacitive-images/ As you see, the sensor elements are huge, 4×4mm each, i.e. there’re only 15×27 sensors for the complete touch screen. On top of that, there’s high amount of noise in the signal of each sensor.
The reasons why it works OK in practice, fingers have very predictable shape, also a lot of software involved on all levels of the stack. Touch screen firmware filters out sensor noise and generates touch points. Higher level GUI frameworks “snap“ touches to virtual buttons, some platforms go as far as making virtual keyboard buttons different sizes, depending on which virtual keys are expected to be clicked next, according to predictive input software i.e. dictionaries.
What you propose probably can be done, by using a finger-like object, but I don’t expect the resolution will be great. At least not in comparison with hardware turning knobs, even cheap ones can be make extremely precise. See this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_encoder and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incremental_encoder for more info, both are used a lot in wide variety of applications. Old mice with a ball had 2 of them, the reason why ball mice sucked was not sensor precision, it was dirt accumulation, a minor issue for a knob.
[1] VR and AR Fundamentals: https://medium.com/@michaelnaimark/vr-ar-fundamentals-prolog...
[2] Other Senses (Touch, Smell, Taste, Mind): https://medium.com/@michaelnaimark/vr-ar-fundamentals-3-othe...
[3] Food Simulator: https://www.wired.com/2003/08/slideshow-wonders-aplenty-at-s... https://ars.electronica.art/center/en/food-simulator/ http://icat.vrsj.org/papers/2003/00876_00000.pdf
Hiroo Iwata is a brilliant mad scientist [4], and in a previous HN discussion about pie menus and haptic multitouch interfaces [5], I linked to his wonderful work on 3DOF Multitouch Haptic Interface with Movable Touchscreen. [6] [7]
[4] Professor Hiroo IWATA: http://www.frontier.kyoto-u.ac.jp/te03/member/iwata/index.ht...
[5] HN discussion of pie menus and haptic multitouch interfaces: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17105984
[6] 3DOF Multitouch Haptic Interface with Movable Touchscreen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCZPmj7NtSQ
[7] 3DOF Multitouch Haptic Interface with Movable Touchscreen: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-981-10-4157-0_...
>Shun Takanaka, Hiroaki Yano, Hiroo Iwata, Presented at AsiaHaptics2016. This paper reports on the development of a multitouch haptic interface equipped with a movable touchscreen. When the relative position of two of a user’s fingertips is fixed on a touchscreen, the fingers can be considered a hand-shaped rigid object. In such situations, a reaction force can be exerted on each finger using a three degrees of freedom (3DOF) haptic interface. In this study, a prototype 3DOF haptic interface system comprising a touchscreen, a 6-axis force sensor, an X-Y stage, and a capstan drive system was developed. The developed system estimates the input force from fingers using sensor data and each finger’s position. Further, the system generates reaction forces from virtual objects to the user’s fingertips by controlling the static frictional force between each of the user’s fingertips and the screen. The system enables users to perceive the shape of two-dimensional virtual objects displayed on the screen and translate/rotate them with their fingers. Moreover, users can deform elastic virtual objects, and feel their rigidity.
There are some other really bizarre examples of haptic interfaces in the AsiaHaptics2016 conference videos! (Not all safe for work, depending on your chosen profession, predilection for palpation, and assessment of sphincter tone.) [8]
[8] AsiaHaptics2016: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8qMmIgmWhnQBeABjGlzGbg/vid...
So, Star Fleet made the same transition as the US Navy, from a touchscreen to 3D tactile controls.
The Galaxy class was the first class of ship with a saucer separation system that could be re-attached while in flight. I believe the Constitution class did have the ability to separate its saucer, but that was accomplished with explosive bolts and it couldn't re-attach without being in drydock.
Tactically that would only make sense if the engineering hull could keep an enemy ship entirely occupied, if there was more than one enemy ship engaging then its going to be difficult to keep them all from pursuing the saucer.
You are right though, if you did suffer a warp core breach you aren't going anywhere quickly. But in almost all situations help is only one subspace call away.
Huh? No way; whether you're in a battle with 3 cloaked Romulan warbirds, or have an imminent warp core breach, you have minutes, at most, to get help. Other starships aren't that close by.
I didn't watch Voyager much, and never saw that episode, but this is extremely disappointing. The ST:TNG Technical Manual (which came out before VOY) clearly addressed this issue, way way back in the early 90s. You can actually feel touchscreen controls, because they have miniature force fields/tractor beams that provide the same tactile sensation you get with mechanical controls. Didn't the writers of VOY ever read the TNG Tech Manual?
It's of course even more disappointing that a sci-fi TV show in the 80s/90s was able to address this important HMI issue in a book meant just for geeky fans, yet 25 years later people in the industry still don't get it. Of course, we don't have tractor beams or force fields to implement what they wrote about in the tech manual, but it does show the show's technical consultants were thinking about and aware of this issue back then, 15 years before slate-style smartphones were even invented, and that maybe we should not be using touchscreens for certain controls until we do have force fields or some other workaround.
>and I mean HATED the touch screen when it came to virtual potentiometers (one operator got up and walked away saying "this screen is a fucking piece of shit")
That operator was correct. Virtual potentiometers on a touchscreen are a horrible idea and miserable to use.
Nope, in fact they were expressly prohibited from writing about the technology. In the scripts, instead of doing their built-world-homework and writing that coherently into the story, they just had to put "[TECH]" in to the scripts. Then the technical consistency editors came along and filled that stuff in. Not even kidding. This led to some of the really disastrous (IMO) early scenes in Voyager such as one where two characters (Cpt. Janeway and B'Elanna, iirc) are bonding while solving an crisis technical issue... and the dialogue is a total hash because it was "co-written" using a completely insane method.
You can add all the haptic and UI flair you want in, but it's not going to make my nerves tingle in the way my brain expects.
video in german https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJjp-P9jZCk
Most industrial touchscreens I've seen are resistive which makes them much more difficult to use, especially for dragging motions, so that may be compounding the problem. Capacitive screens are generally much easier to use.
I bought an origami cover for the reader, so it can be put at an angle on the desk.
The combination of both mean that I need to turn it off, otherwise it would randomly switch pages when it is in my pocket.
I miss my first Kindle with its physical page turning buttons.
Though, on a serious note, I work in industrial automation and user interfaces, aka HMI's have been touch oriented for quite some time. It was and still is common to see graphical elements which emulate the look of physical buttons used on machinery. This was done to help operators navigate touch screens who were used to panels full of buttons, knobs, and switches.
Recently I rebuilt a machine that was half analog and half digital controls to all digital control. I first started with a full touch interface with provisions for knobs and buttons. During testing operators hated, and I mean HATED the touch screen when it came to virtual potentiometers (one operator got up and walked away saying "this screen is a fucking piece of shit"). I installed encoder knobs to emulate potentiometers and it was a success. Everyone was happy.
Some things just can't be done with a screen. You need physical things to interact with.