News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by deanclatworthy on Thursday July 25, 2019 @09:24AM (#20525153)
Enjoy insta while it lasts. They are having more and more sponsored posts creep into the feed. I don’t expect this trend to reverse. It’s how they make money.
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by 8ytecoder on Thursday July 25, 2019 @10:54AM (#20525881)
I have mentioned this before here - instagram ads are a bit too creepy. I have had multiple personal ads that were eerily accurate and I hadn’t even discussed these things over any written form. I’m not paranoid to think they are listening to the microphone but the coincidence is super uncanny. It crossed the line for me twice in the past few months alone.
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by about_help on Thursday July 25, 2019 @12:27PM (#20526725)
You should be, the Facebook app explicitly does listen to the mic unless you opt out. It has also come out that Google and Amazon are storing people's personal voice requests, and aside from that the mics are always on waiting to hear the trigger words. This means by default that the apps are listening and analyzing everything, though how much of the non word-triggered speech gets recorded is unknown.

Facebook's initial foray into the app/mic biz was troubled and their statement was "we only listen for popular music / TV in the background in order to help you." It also came out that they mine personal messages between users.

"I’m not paranoid to think they are listening to the microphone but the coincidence is super uncanny."

We need to get past the block where we label people as paranoid for thinking these big corps might invade user's privacy.

Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by RandallBrown on Thursday July 25, 2019 @12:59PM (#20527142)
The Facebook app, on iPhone at least, requires you to opt in to giving it microphone access.

I've seen the myth that Facebook is targeting ads based on what it hears debunked several times. Do you have a source that shows that it is in fact listening?

I think it's more likely that the same reason someone is talking about something (they're in a demographic interested in that thing) is the reason that Facebook gives you ads for that thing. Add in the Baader-Meinhof effect and it seems like Facebook is listening to your conversations.

Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by ghostbrainalpha on Thursday July 25, 2019 @02:17PM (#20527900)
I am so frustrated by this "debunking", because it defies logic and experience.

Let's say Facebook NEVER listens to you... I'm 100% on board with them and their honesty. It still doesn't matter.

If you let ANY third party app listen to you, and identify you, for example the latest Candy Crush game, then your information along with preferences are being uploaded to databases for re-targeting.

When I do a big campaign in Facebook, or any sophisticated marketer does, I don't ask Facebook for users who like Cats and are looking for brands of organic cat food. I PROVIDE them a pre-vetted list of people looking for cat food that I generated and the emails associated with those Facebook accounts.

Facebook has NO WAY to know how I came up with my list, and no possible way to find out. It could have been from listening to conversations while someone played Candy Crush, or it could have been from a form submitted on my website.

One of these days I'm just going to actually document myself doing this and publish it to a website so more people understand what is happening and how easy it is to use data from people's conversations.

TLDR: Any time you buy a list of potential customers from a market research company, that data could have been gathered with conversation tracking. It's not Facebook's fault, it's just the reality.

Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by shostack on Thursday July 25, 2019 @07:57PM (#20531065)
You're not wrong. "Data laundering" is a thing. There's a lot of industry concern around the quality/accuracy of 3rd party data segments from various brokers, DMPs and DSPs, but often times they are complete black boxes in terms of their source data.
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by on_and_off on Thursday July 25, 2019 @04:59PM (#20529644)
same on Android .. and microphone is among the permissions I very rarely give to any app.

Thinking about it, I might just remove it from Google as well since I don't really use voice search.

Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by photojosh on Thursday July 25, 2019 @08:19PM (#20531194)
> The Facebook app, on iPhone at least, requires you to opt in to giving it microphone access.

I just double-checked, and I have mine turned off. So, "requires"?

Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by colbyh on Thursday July 25, 2019 @01:00PM (#20527154)
"You should be, the Facebook app explicitly does listen to the mic unless you opt out."

Evidence? Every time someone claims this it gets debunked.

Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by Kiro on Thursday July 25, 2019 @04:20PM (#20529200)
Give me one reliable source for any of your claims.
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by Zak on Thursday July 25, 2019 @10:59AM (#20525932)
I've had the opposite experience with ads on Instagram. It shows me ads for cat products (I don't have a cat), code bootcamps (I have decades of programming experience), and for a while repeatedly showed the same ad for a job as a flight instructor (I have no qualifications for such a job).
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by pixelrevision on Thursday July 25, 2019 @03:19PM (#20528517)
You may not have put in anything directly but they have stuff about a lot of the people you follow, recommendations to you and ML that analyzes your habits to better find info about you. Who knows what computers can infer based on all these inputs? At this point they own so much data based on all these connections they likely do not need to listen. It would be good if these companies had to be a little more transparent about how they connect all the dots.
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by desas on Thursday July 25, 2019 @05:21PM (#20529859)
Does the quality of the ads you see really make you confident that they're paying attention to all of these data points and have an amazing algorithm that ties it all together?
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by joncrane on Thursday July 25, 2019 @11:41AM (#20526322)
For me this only started happening after I offered feedback aka "Don't show me ads like this any more."

Of course I realized shortly thereafter: "Do I really want better targeted ads on my Instagram feed?"

It's a little too late now but if I had to do it over again I would let it guess, mostly poorly, and that makes it easier to filter out the sponsored content.

Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by chipperyman573 on Thursday July 25, 2019 @03:13PM (#20528460)
You can always give it incorrect data to train with :) I've been muting ads from the twitter account of every ad I've seen on twitter and the tweets I get are really, really weird and often more interesting than the tweets it gave me to begin with (because now I'm mostly down to the ads that some random person spent $5 promoting as a joke). But there was a weird 2 month period where twitter was trying to determine what I did want to see and actually had real inventory to play with, and it was hilarious how wrong it would get me sometimes. As far as I can tell, this is the only way to keep your privacy - to confuse the algorithms by overloading them with random data.
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by godelski on Thursday July 25, 2019 @05:47PM (#20530111)
Along these lines I don't have a Facebook, have tracker blockers, and other stuff. Spotify used to give me the strangest ads. I'd get some for super cuts. Then an ad about hair loss (I'm under 30 and my dad still doesn't have gray hair). Then ads in Spanish from Jared's (not even dating anyone. Plus these seemed to be targeted at women). Also I'd get TONs of ads for Spotify premium. Those were literally all the ads I got. (stopped using Spotify because after I started paying, maybe those ads worked, their Linux app broke and they said they didn't care about fixing it)
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by bhk on Thursday July 25, 2019 @01:22PM (#20527391)
Perhaps other people have been discussing your personal issues in written form?
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by godelski on Thursday July 25, 2019 @04:31PM (#20529349)
Honest question. Would you actually rather have them send false hits and hide how much they're tracking?

I ask this because in that infamous Forbes article about Target and the pregnant girl they mention how they now add ads for things they don't think you are interested in, in an effort to creep people out less. (To me this feels a little worse) Plenty of groups do purposefully send false hits to make it less creepy to the target.

Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by papito on Thursday July 25, 2019 @05:16PM (#20529801)
Someone did an experiment where they talked Spanish into their phone, cold, and the ads started showing up in Spanish later.
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by wingkongex on Thursday July 25, 2019 @11:02AM (#20525958)
They are all over the place for me. I also get a ton of strange ones that are made to look like regular people just taking pictures of themselves, I guess aspiring models? I don't even engage with IG models...I swear.
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by frostburg on Thursday July 25, 2019 @05:04PM (#20529686)
Instagram thinks that I have influence over jet fighter buying decisions, they're not that good (despite the invasive methods that they surely use).
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by okmokmz on Thursday July 25, 2019 @11:19AM (#20526112)
I don't know how anyone still uses Instagram. It was an amazing app pre-aquisition, and Facebook managed to completely destroy everything that was good about it
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by bitreality on Thursday July 25, 2019 @12:33PM (#20526795)
You may believe that, and I'm sure it's true to a certain degree, but Instagram has seen absurd growth since the Facebook acquisition. Without Instagram, Facebook would likely be in a crisis right now over its aging userbase and decelerating growth. The Instagram app is probably nearly as valuable as the Facebook app at this point.
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by okmokmz on Thursday July 25, 2019 @12:43PM (#20526898)
I'm not arguing that it isn't successful, but Facebook still managed to modify it the point that it lost 100% of its usefulness to me.

It was at its best when you could follow accounts, all of the posts of the people you follow would be displayed chronologically, and clicking on a hashtag would also display all posts under that tag chronologically.

Facebook removed the chronological order of the timeline, made it so you will not see all posts from the people you follow, started injecting posts and ads from accounts I do not follow, and did the same with hashtags where you will only see posts facebook decides you should see via their algorithm. Also, engagement with my page decreased 100-500% across the board and my consistent growth stopped entirely as I was not an "influencer" so people that followed me and checked my hashtags would rarely even see my posts

Facebook changed Instagram from an extremely functional social app that allowed you to easily interact with and become parts of niche communities, to a useless ad platform that limits your interactivity and connectivity to anything that you actually want to see to push you to whoever pays Facebook or whatever the algorithm decides what should be popular which ends up being the same garbage content that has plagued Facebook for years

Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by jiggliemon on Thursday July 25, 2019 @10:41AM (#20525750)
Confirmed. Last time I checked, every 6th post was an ad. Just checked and it’s now every 5th.

There’s several large magazines that are 50% ad content. I bet that’s the ceiling.

Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by gwm83 on Thursday July 25, 2019 @11:26AM (#20526189)
Just checked mine. Every third post was a sponsored ad. This is why I have mostly stopped going on Instagram.
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by jiggliemon on Friday July 26, 2019 @03:11AM (#20532943)
I see. It’s at least every fifth for me. An there’s some cases where it’s 3 or 4. Depends on what content they’re sandwiching.

Second post is always an ad. There’s an ad before they tell you you’re all caught up. And it looks like followed tags effect that ratio as well.

Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by logfromblammo on Thursday July 25, 2019 @01:08PM (#20527256)
For a print publication, maybe.

If you go above 50% ads, some print pages will be ads on both sides, and both may easily be ripped out and discarded--the earliest ad-blocker tech.

Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by spc476 on Thursday July 25, 2019 @01:45PM (#20527593)
Back in the late 80s and 90s, there was the magazine Computer Shopper that was easily 90%+ advertising. It was incredibly popular.
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by dsr_ on Thursday July 25, 2019 @04:03PM (#20529007)
That was because it was the only way people could buy computers that weren't pre-selected by Compaq, Dell or IBM. It was a 100% paid-placement catalog.

Pretty quickly I figured out that articles by Steven J Vaughan-Nichols were worth reading and the rest were generally not. But the ads were what we were looking for.

Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by Phlarp on Thursday July 25, 2019 @11:54AM (#20526434)
Adorable that you think they would be satisfied at 50% ad content!
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by apazzolini on Thursday July 25, 2019 @12:29PM (#20526744)
If you have a content blocker turned on in iOS, install the PWA version of Instagram - it will remove all sponsored posts.

The PWA version is almost as good as the native app. It lacks a pull to refresh feature as far as I can tell, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by newscracker on Thursday July 25, 2019 @01:01PM (#20527171)
What I would love on iOS would be an isolated container like the Multi-account Containers on Firefox desktop. With a PWA, how are the cookies (and local storage) stored and handled? Do they all live with Safari's cookies? Or do they have their own cookie container that's isolated from the rest of the system? If it were the former, I wouldn't want that.

I regularly use Firefox Focus (which is also the system wide content blocker for me), but it doesn't seem like its blocking rules are updated often. Not sure if that's because of some limit in the number of rules allowed per blocking extension.

Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by sharatvir on Thursday July 25, 2019 @12:59PM (#20527129)
Great suggestion. It’s actually a pretty solid experience. Only other difference is that it does not auto play videos on feed or story.

Maybe that’s a feature for some though.

Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by flycaliguy on Thursday July 25, 2019 @01:52PM (#20527673)
Somehow I have zero ads on instagram. I don't know how that happened, but I suspect it has to do with a period of time on facebook where I was just marking every ad as not relevant to me. Everytime I visited, I'd let their system know that any type of ad doesn't suit me.

So maybe that tricked the system? My only other theory would be that they somehow know I wouldn't use the service at all if it had ads. I'm a fickle user who happens to produce some quality, original artwork for their service.

Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by Zak on Thursday July 25, 2019 @09:42AM (#20525260)
I'm not actually a big fan of Instagram. Its format restrictions and mobile-only upload may be contributing to it having more interesting content for the moment, but I'm convinced Facebook could achieve a more interesting feed by changing the algorithm as well.

I don't mind terribly if there are a few sponsored posts in any of my social media feeds. I suspect the acceptable rate is somewhere around one per five original content posts.

Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by flanbiscuit on Thursday July 25, 2019 @10:18AM (#20525529)
The thing I enjoy most about the sponsored posts is seeing people rip into the product in the comments.
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by fapjacks on Thursday July 25, 2019 @12:21PM (#20526679)
I quit Instagram for a couple of months or so, and came back last week, and now I'm shown one ad every 2-3 posts, no exceptions. It was so overbearing that I started counting, and I did not get a single stretch of more than three posts without an ad thrown in. So I just uninstalled it.
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by mountainofdeath on Thursday July 25, 2019 @01:44PM (#20527587)
Indeed it seems that half the things I see are sponsored posts when just a year or two, they were few and far between. Also, the quality of the content has decreased dramatically.
Re:Facebook Research Warned of ‘Tipping Point’ Threat to Cor... by cwkoss on Thursday July 25, 2019 @05:06PM (#20529710)
I like replying to sponsored posts with comments that the sponsor would probably not classify as a 'positive engagement' ;-)