In my experience the issue isn't so much cutting off the supply but what to do to fill the time. It's not as easy as taking up a new hobby, for me at least. I think information addiction is really tricky because it's compromising a key part of what humans are, information processors. We are always processing some kind of information, all the time.

I can go straight from video gaming to reading a book, but my mind takes a few minutes to adjust, and then once I'm synced up I'll tend to get restless after 15-20 minutes and look for something else to do. If I don't have anything else planned I just go back to gaming. It's pretty tough to escape this loop.

I was the same before. I could get myself to sit down with a book and read, and wanted to, very much actually, but could only stomach it for 15-20 minutes. Then I was looking for the next dopamine fix. And not every day. It was a bit boring, really, compared to all the things I "learned" from just skimming hacker news.

It took a long time, but now I can easily read for an hour. My normal routine now is to wake up an hour before I have to and read for an hour or so, and then again in the evening read for an hour or so. Reading a book in the morning is really a great way to start the day, I find. I still prefer ending the day falling asleep to the office or something like that.

One of the things that has really worked for me, other than training the practical side of reading for prolonged amounts of time with focus, is to get used to preferring long pieces instead of the quick fixes that is mostly what's online. Before I wanted the quick reads, they felt like I achieved things. Now I want the long pieces, the books, the journalistic marvels that took years to produce and an hour or more to really go through properly. It took time to get here, getting rid of the fear of missing out - which I'm still working on - and understanding that all sorts of things happen in the "now", but almost anything of importance and substance is best "consumed" at a distance - maybe a week or more after it happens. That's especially true for news, except for the odd once that you want to know about right now, but I feel like when that happens, word will get to your from other paths, like family, friends and so on contacting you if it's that important. Any news that is not important enough to warrant your attention after it's a week old, is it really worth knowing anyway?

One counterintuitive trick that has worked for me is to fire up my "manager brain" in daily life. When you do most white collar work, especially as a manager, your job consists largely of filtering a huge number of potential inputs/jobs and focusing intently on the highest value/leverage ones. Instead of fighting my increasing tendency to scan for a new dopamine hit, I allow my brain to wander for a moment and then to consider the highest value option, which frequently turns out to be continuing doing what I'm doing so that I gain the advantages and compound interest of depth in an activity and do not incur the cost of context switching. I will say that this takes a little enjoyment away from going truly deep and achieving flow, for example, where you lose your sense of time and become engrossed in the narrative/activity/whatever, but it's a bit of a jiu jitsu move and allows you to fight the world around you less and use it to your advantage a little more. I still think tuning out and removing distractions is valuable, but it's a good complementary practice.

I've found that there's a "hump" where reading a book where I get bored and want to do something else after 15-20 minutes, but if I'm really engrossed and stick that out, I can find myself literally reading all night long, for hours at a time, until I finish the book. (I'm someone who tends to finish books in 1-2 sittings; I never really understood folks like my mom who'll read for 15 minutes a day and nurse a book for months.)

For that matter, programming's like that too. After a 15-20 minute chunk I'll usually feel a strong urge to go check HN (clearly, I'm in one of those now). If I can resist that urge enough, and have long enough blocks of time (challenging with a kid now), I can find myself coding for several hours straight until I finish the change I was working on.

>I'm someone who tends to finish books in 1-2 sittings; I never really understood folks like my mom who'll read for 15 minutes a day and nurse a book for months.)

I hope it isn't pointless self help book. I used to be exactly like that until I realized how pointless they are.

Once you bust through that 15-20mins you are home free as a reader. Take your book, leave your phone, and read outside. That way if you want to abandon your book to find some little dopamine hit to stay your ADD, you'd have to go all the way back inside.

Even just another room or nook works, or the public library, so long as all you do there is read. You'll begin to associate that spot with reading and have an easier time getting into the reading mindset.

I broke out of a long term video game addiction (I think we can call it that now) a few years ago. I still go back to them from once or twice a year and I'm always surprised by how hard the grip of them is even after just a play or two. Not all games grip me hard but some just suck me in and suddenly I'm burning 5-6 hours a night

Have you tried graphic novels? I've found them good for when I get restless.

How did you break video game addiction? Asking for a friend, while he excels technically in his line of work, he has issues socially which he escapes through video games.

Graphic novels are another form of escape.

Have you tried mindfulness? I've found it useful for literally everything, ESPECIALLY when restless.

What does this mean? What do you mean by mindfulness?

Non-religious meditation, I presume.

I've been using the StayFocusd [1] extension in Chrome, which gives you a daily allowance on sites you list.

... but then I found myself using Safari to get around that allowance.

There's also Forest [2], which "gamifies" staying away from websites for a certain time. It's the Chrome extension version of the Forest iOS app [3] to stay away from your phone.

I like to think of StayFocusd as the stick, and Forest as the carrot.

[1] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/stayfocusd/laankej...

[2] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/forest-stay-focuse...

[3] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/forest-stay-focused/id86645051...

> but then I found myself using Safari to get around that allowance.

Ha, that resonates with me. I use a chrome extension to block a bunch of stuff at work. Which I soon discovered had an easily accessible toggle switch for turning it off. So I hacked the source to remove it.

Then I discovered it didn't work in private mode until I found a setting to enable that too.

At the moment I have no trivial way of turning it off. Except browsing on my phone!

Thanks for the reminder about forest. I realized that with the widget view on ios + having an apple watch, it is more useful.

I can run some shortcuts and time trackers from widgets, start/stop timers etc and use the phone/watch for a bunch of practical stuff while working, but having the screen blocked from distractions by forest.

Hadn’t worked for me before as I missed those functions.

HabitRPG also exists, for the full gamification effect.

I second this. At one time, I thought that I was improving myself by getting new information but the reality is that I crave new information just because. It hasn't been until lately that I have concluded that information for the sake of information is useless. Reading a book is just entertainment unless you put the new knowledge into action. Reading news articles is only useful if they help you in some way.

Also, putting knowledge into action does not feel as good as getting a quick hit of news. But over the long run reducing the amount of new information and doing something with what you learn makes you happier and more satisfied with your life.

If you haven't figured this out yet, keep this in mind before you get lost in a sea of information without a goal. Think of a junkie always looking for the next hit. Except that it's news not a drug.

"Attention Hijacking" apps and websites along with FOMO leads to over-consumption of digital information or even digital addiction. It is subtle, micro habit forming that turns into part of daily routine. Overtime, it turns into "learned helplessness."

There are browser extensions like Leechblock for Firefox, they help. You can make the list of sites to edit impossible to reach during the time they are blocked. I'd like a tool like that but more low level, so they work for all browsers simultaneously and can be even harder to circumvent.

There's also a browser extension that limits the number of tabs you can have open.

Maybe another good one would be to slow you down, e.g. at most one page per minute or so.

But the best remedy is to stand up and walk around for a bit, discuss what's vague about your current task with a colleague for a moment, or try to put some thoughts on actual paper. That's not something you get from a product.

If you use technology to break the addiction, you risk obsessing over the tech. If you rely on will power to break the addiction, you may face internal conflict. The stress is just as bad as the addiction [1]

In my experience, mindfulness is the best solution: Clear your mind by experiencing the sensations of your environment.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironic_process_theory

Practicing mindfulness/mediation and breathing techniques has taught me you can break the cycle of being a slave to whatever your brain is craving at any given moment. Don't knock it until you've tried it for a while...

Meditation helps. When I take even 8 minutes a day to sit quietly and breath (I use the Timeless timer for iPhone), I find I have more willpower to avoid crappy food and trivial time-wasters.

Similarly, making sure you get daily exercise and spend some time in nature if you can. Apparently, according to “The Distracted Mind”, even just looking at pictures of nature can help your brain recharge, allowing you to be more focused.

How would you decide what to block? Wikipedia or Stack Overflow can be extremely useful but you can waste time there as easily as on Facebook, Twitter or Hacker News.

While Stack Overflow is great for solving issues, I still had to block the "Hot Network Questions" suggestions from the sidebar because it was an almost systematic distraction that would inevitably send me down a rabbit-hole of unrelated questions.

Any system designed to solve the attention problem will have to be opinionated, blocking specific websites, or at least parts of it, I guess it's an interesting case study for machine learning.

I did this as well and it definitely helped. For Stack Overflow I've also removed the left sidebar entirely and upped the minimum width of the main content (so code doesn't get cut off nearly as much).

Another helpful one was removing the "next page" links on Reddit (I use the classic version). That way I can check on some things I'm interested in, but not get carried away.

I'm considering doing the same for Hacker News.

Thanks for the idea! That's what always gets me too!

How did you do that?

I used an adblocker to block the element (the ID is #hot-network-questions).

I didn't say that this product will "block" sites (traditionally speaking).

For example, if you need StackOverflow it can replace it's UI with only a search box and results list, preventing you from clicking related links.

When you go on reddit, it could asks you which subreddit you need and why before letting you in, reinforcing the reason you need to visit the site. I think it can be powerful - requiring active input from the user as to what his intentions are. If you need to write "I'm really bored" as a reason you go on Facebook, I think there's a pretty good chance you'll end up closing it.

I believe there are hidden patterns that you might be able to break when the product helps you see and understand these patterns.

That's a nice idea, explain your reasons for visiting any site. Also enter how much time you expect to spend there, and get reminders, I'd say.

Then don't decide what to block based on content. Decide what to block either based upon the users express choice (the tool would empower the user, not dictate a lifestyle to them) or possibly based upon observation of where the user spends the most time.

The main problem I see with the concept is that it has a poor intellectual foundation. I'd like to see a better explanation of why learning is so dangerous.

Obviously "learning" in itself is not dangerous, but the amount of time you spend learning instead of things that actually matter to you.

Feeds. Gotta block feeds out of your life. The never-ending treadmill of new information is what's really problematic, at least for me.

Ironically feeds made me spend way less time on the internet. Instead of jumping around half a dozen different sites and dealing with their ass engagement-focused ux, I just skim their RSS feeds once at the end of the day. ~150-200 new articles a day and I scroll and skim through them in about 20 mins.

Maybe I'll read 2-5 particularly interesting articles in depth, but even from what I'd call great websites a lot of the content is just noise and not worth the time spent to read. That really becomes apparent when you have a pretty barebones, super focused and condensed list.

I just stick to HN. I run out of new things to look at after about 45 minutes on it.

I would have to agree.

Overeating, overfeeding.... They share a lot of similarities.

Stack Overflow finally listened to all my pleas on their yearly survey and now turning off the Hot Network Questions is at least a configurable option!

For Macs, there's SelfControl: https://selfcontrolapp.com

It automates editing the hosts file and flushing DNS caches. It can operate as a whitelist or a blacklist.

windows alternative: https://www.focalfilter.com/

Read books instead. Every time you want to browse the web, pick up a book. After you have read the book, only visit sites that discuss said books. Books can be garbage but at least they have some peer review. You have to understand that the web is designed to get you to click. It's the ultimate pavlovian step. Places like HN and reddit are actually the worst because you see and read mostly bullshit that lacks context nor substance. If you are an expert in something that comes up on HN, expect to become disillusioned for example. And on reddit.. well good luck.

An honest question: do you think it’s the information-seeking behavior that is the problem, or that the information-seeking is a manifestation of a different behavior (e.g., procrastination)?

I find that with a lot of people it’s procrastination. There’s no information block thorough enough to address procrastination; it finds a way. It has to be addressed directly.

Just out of curiosity, what do you mean when you say "holding me back in my life"?

I'd also say that browsing the web, learning new stuff, posting on forums, reading in general, is one of the things I use the most of my spare time on. And of course it takes time away from doing potential "productive" things, or more ambitious hobbies. On the surface, it seems like this has a lot of similarities with "information addiction". So I'm just trying to gauge whether this is a problem for me or not.

I've sort of made a deliberate choice that this is okay, since I spend 7 hours a day doing "productive" work anyway, and I get a lot of enjoyment out of this, and it would adversely affect my mental health to chase more ambitious things in my spare time.

There is https://freedom.to/ , which seems to be remarkably successful at charging people to cut off (all our some of) their internet access...

Was going to post about Freedom. Works pretty well and since sessions can be timed it can be used as a pomodoro timer.

I think the first step is to wake up. Really think about what impact the info addiction has on your life. Bucause if you don't it is very hard to see why you should change bad behavior.

The next step is taking babysteps because big steps most of the time don't work.

So for example start by turning off all notifications.

Then allow yourself to YouTube for only 2 hours a day instead of 3.

The Rubin Report has some interviews with Eckhart Tolle on YouTube right now with a lot of insights. And Peter Peterson is also someone who speaks a lot about these subjects.

I built this awhile ago for that exact purpose.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/attention-budget/a...

It hasn't fully solved the issue because sometimes I cheat but it helps.

https://github.com/genuineBuildMonkey/attention-budget

Addiction is a symptom of something else, usually trauma (which I include forgetting fundamental ways to use the mind as an item, eg. how to be still and not suffer from boredom).

For me, there were several issues. Anxiety was my normal state, though I didn't know it because I'd been cultivating my addiction since around age 8 & was largely disconnected from my emotions. They were also seemingly locked up from denial of the trauma stemming from being molested (saying "That traumatized me" aloud to myself led to a flood of emotions all at once). I grew up in a codependent family and culture. I was born into the psychosocial slavery of capitalism and taught I had to have a job and money to survive. This disconnected me from my need for community support, which I was also shamed from seeking. I was bullied by my best friend growing up, as well as most of the adults in my life. All of these things had a lasting impact on my relationships.

What worked for me was healing from all of that. I use RescueTime to keep an eye on my usage, but have no other controls anymore. Early in recovery, someone else monitored my screen time, I used MManager (I think) for locking down my phone and a boot password for the laptop, with my roommates & therapist knowing the passwords. Basically, setting up accountability systems for myself. But that's just what kept me from lapsing, which isn't as big of a deal as addiction specialists told me, because I started using them as learning opportunities to observe how my mind worked in those situations.

Basically, any app that isn't helping build mindfulness, learn about what life needs to thrive, build a supportive community, and identify/heal from trauma is operating from the current mainstream approach to addiction and is only going to have marginal effects. Don't look to current addiction science...I turned my info addiction inward and healed that way.

If you'd like to talk more about what you're going through and would like to add someone to your support network, I'm available for it.

>I'm available for it.

What is your keybase?

>because unlike drugs you can't realistically not use the internet ever again and nowadays it's SO easy to go down the rabbit hole even from innocent and serious sites.

I can relate so deeply to this sentiment. Especially lurking on deep web, and other pointless rabit holes.

>Every once in a while I humor myself with a building such a product, but I really don't know what features would work. Any suggestions?

Easy? Blocksite app for Android and there are many for others.

Have you considered adding some meaning to your life?

> Solitude Deprivation: A state in which you spend close to zero time alone with your own thoughts and free from the input from other minds.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20248044

A bit cheeky to marginalize drugs to data, eh? Data won’t cause you to lose 3 days of work.

There is Cold Turkey Blocker.

https://getcoldturkey.com/

The problem is that it's not the panaceo you imagine it to be at first. The crux of the problem is the bad habit loop.

> I'm surprised there isn't a serious accessible product

But there is! $5 timer on your wireless router.

i just go outdoors and leave my phone at home.

Check out freedom.to