A few things you could try: taking a magnesium supplement, use a weighted blanket, add some exercise to your routine. Is there noise that might be waking you up? A white noise machine or earplugs could help. Are you sharing your bed with someone? Their tossing and turning could affect your sleep, so fixing your bed frame and getting a mattress which isolates motion could both help. Is your life stressful? That could be something else to address.

Finally, keep in mind that possibly, these wrist sensors may not actually be able to detect deep sleep all that well.

A lot of good things to consider there, thank you.

To start with, I'll try to add lifting to my routine and maybe a magnesium supplement. I might do the supplement first for a week, to see if it has any impact.

Magnesium makes a huge difference for me.

Have you done a sleep study? It can detect if you are waking and why. Even if you think you don't snore you might have airway issues.

Of course results vary, mine basically lead to the doctor saying I was a bit below normal and losing some weight (5-10kg) should help, but it didn't address the real issue which was that I take too long to get to sleep in the first place.

I have thought about it, although it is quite expensive ($1500 - $2000 out of pocket).

I am a few kilos under weight for my height, so it hasn't felt like an obvious move. But I do want to get to the bottom of my sleep issues- it affects every aspect of my life.

That's a shame. I think I paid about $70 being in Australia with the other ~$500 covered. If they had managed to fix me, it would be probably be a very good investment for Medicare since poor sleep predicts many issues.

You could try nasal strips to open up your nose as a cheap hack in the meantime and see if it works. They make me itchy so I stopped, but did help my airflow when they were on.

Have you done any experiments with sleeping position?

On my back I usually have trouble sleeping, on my left side I'm well enough to get a full night's sleep (usually with some rolling around), but on my right side, with my arms in the right position (right arm under pillow and curled back under my head, left arm over pillow and reaching around towards the other arm's elbow), I'm usually completely out.

That's very interesting. I hadn't considered that at all. I do find I fall asleep on my side, and perhaps wake up when my hand falls asleep or something.

Good idea.

How are you with Alcohol and Caffeine intake?

Zero alcohol for the last 10 years.

Zero caffeine for the last 3.5 years.

How about marijuana?

Kind of taboo, since most like to think there's no side effects, but many find it can mess with REM cycles and, consequently, nightly dreaming[1]. REM, being where you get your most restful sleeping done.

Although stopping cold turkey is likely to not help much initially.

[1] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/7b7gn4/why-are-your-dream...

Good question. Zero marijuana, ever. The only drug I do is sugar.

> The only drug I do is sugar

(Anecdata) Which is a terrible drug for me, creating absurd and artificial peaks and droughts of energy, completely throwing me off. The worst part is during the low sections I have some craving that keeps me on my toes, like some raw hunt/forage impetus, making me even more tired. Overall low carb diet and skipping on sweet things entirely fixes it for me.

Do these abstinences bespeak an anxiety or mood disorder?

Nah, I just don't care about alcohol, and coffee gives me heartburn (which is normally well under control thanks to a PPI).

I'd look at any long term medication as a factor.

PPIs can definitely affect magnesium. https://www.gov.uk/drug-safety-update/proton-pump-inhibitors...

On the other hand if your heartburn causes reflux then the PPI can help sleep. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24942514

Have you seen a sleep specialist or done a full sleep study?

Do you exercise consistently? Hows your diet?

I get decent aerobic exercise 3 times a week or more.

I should start lifting again.

My diet is mostly veggies, eggs, chicken, fiber cereal, nuts, berries, and chocolate.

Completely anecdotal, but everytime I get a hard run in - especially in the evening I stay up way later than I typically would even if its hours before I try and sleep. Lifting is the opposite and helps me fall asleep. Maybe try running in the morning and lifting in the evening if thats an option for you. Your diet looks on point though it doesnt look it would cause any issues. Maybe try reading 1 - 1.5 hrs before you'd sleep to help clear your mind.

What's on your mind, while you're trying to sleep?

Well, that is the question, isn't it?

I feel like I dream all night long. Random dreams- nothing that speaks to a particular worry.

Then, what's the concern?

That a little machine with a motion sensor and a few if statements is determining the quality of their sleep. (In fairness they also complain of being tired)

It's their complaint that concerns me.

The concern is feeling tired all the time, mainly.

My fitness band's "Deep Sleep" count seems to correspond to how tired I feel, even before looking at it.