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Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by m_mueller on Monday June 03, 2019 @11:17PM (#20091487)
I've moved on to Windows since last year. Besides terminal emulators being shit (which they're fixing now), worse PDF support and shit OS config management, there's really not much anymore that goes in favor of Macs. Their laptops are worthless junk at 40% markup, the OS gets buggier and more locked down with every version while Windows is on a clear trajectory of improvement and PC hardware gives real choice and innovative solutions. I was a Mac user for 13 years, but no more. Since they gave all the keys to Jony it went down the drain real fast.
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by ddebernardy on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @06:41AM (#20103011)
Out of curiosity, has Windows improved in any way from a low maintenance perspective?

The reason I switched to Mac in 2006 was that I ended up using a friend's Mac for a month while abroad so I could get some work done. When I got back to a place where I could get a new Viao at a reasonable price it occurred to me that I hadn't been fighting with the Mac a single time. Wifi always worked, everything I plugged into it just worked as well, the software I ended up installing just worked too, Apache and SVN ran fine, there was a good Terminal app out of the box, etc. This was in stark contrast with the decades long experience I had had with PCs until then. On any given week I had been invariably spending between a half-hour and a day fighting with Windows in some way or another. Which could mean trying to figure out why Wifi or some random printer didn't work, looking for drivers, reinstalling or reconfiguring some piece of software, and so forth. Has this improved materially since the past decade?

Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by m_mueller on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @01:57PM (#20107244)
It certainly has improved, but Mac still has the edge in that regard. This mainly comes down to one things: Superior config management (plist files vs Windows registry). This makes it much easier to maintain - you hardly ever have to reinstall a Mac, instead just clean up all the Library folders and you're fine. A Mac HD also boots on any supported Mac hardware, impossible with windows, which makes things like Migration assistant and full Time machine restore possible.

Bundled apps to me are a wash. Preview >> Edge for PDFs and Terminal.app >> Cmd.exe, but explorer.exe >> Finder and Task Manager >> Activity Monitor.

Another big plus for windows is everything to do with graphics drivers and GPU support if you're into this. I also find WSL overall now better than Mac's Darwin since you get up to date Linux packages which beats homebrew in my books. Performance of WSL is also pretty good, much better than running a VM. This is really what turned Windows around for me, making it a very viable alternative.

Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by lazerlapin on Monday June 10, 2019 @10:20PM (#20152589)
how about screen management ? I'm using several virtual screens (spaces) in my mac, that makes things a lot easier to me. How does that go in today's windows?
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by skykooler on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @09:58AM (#20095052)
My biggest problem with Windows is that you can't scroll in a window or a pane without clicking on it first. Both Mac and Linux support that and it makes the OS feel so clunky.
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by eMSF on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @10:04AM (#20095116)
That's actually one of the better new features in Windows 10 (that you can these days scroll an inactive window).
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by skykooler on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @12:38PM (#20096683)
Oh, really? I might give it a try again one of these days, then.
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by mcv on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @04:42AM (#20102521)
I'm no Windows fan, but Windows 10 is the first where I don't actively hate the window manager. Well, I do hate how it keeps moving all my windows to the left side of the desktop. Not sure why that is happening. So I guess I hate something different about it now.
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by m_mueller on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @05:15AM (#20102655)
You mean it's snapping to the left half after some action? That would probably be when you press Windows+Left-Arrow, happens to me sometimes when I try to do Ctrl-left for example.
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by mcv on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @07:01AM (#20103115)
It's generally when I unlock the screen after waking up. I have no idea if I accidentally pressed Windows+Left, but it's doing this very consistently.
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by m_mueller on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @07:12AM (#20103170)
sounds a bit like a driver issue, like it changes the screen resolution during wake-up. you should figure out whether it's the exact size used for half-pane snapping (which sounds like userland issue), or whether it's some other size.
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by mcv on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @09:27AM (#20104090)
I don't think it's the size for 'half-pane snapping'. It seems a faulty screen resolution change on wake-up might indeed be my problem.
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by ballenf on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @01:04PM (#20096970)
But in MacOS, typing doesn't follow the mouse by default. So you're scrolling away in a window you don't realize is inactive. Then go to close a tab or type and you've just closed a tab in a random application two monitors away. And it can be hit-or-miss whether you realize which application you just interacted with (or where you just inserted characters into your code).
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by gtf21 on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @08:23AM (#20103636)
Ugh this happens to me all the time, but on the other hand I'll sometimes be scrolling through a pdf with my trackpad, but typing in a pane on the left, so I do find it quite useful to have that split between kb/pointer focus.
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by es7ebanlv on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @08:34PM (#20100528)
Also: there was an app, sorry, a program we used with Windows98 that did this, Focus something or other it was called.
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by velcrovan on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @12:08PM (#20096331)
Yeah, Windows can actually do that now.
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by jxi on Monday June 03, 2019 @11:29PM (#20091572)
Those seem like pretty big downsides to me, and I don't believe the new terminal marketing gimmick. I will admit Windows has been very attractive lately for gaming reasons, but from a development standpoint, MacOS still seems way ahead of Windows. I seriously considered it, but there would be too much I'd miss if I switched. There's some minor reasons too, like why does IntelliJ look ugly in Windows? It looks great in both Mac and Linux.
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by rudiv on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @05:59AM (#20102835)
Re: IntelliJ looking bad on Windows, I do know that JetBrains IDEs are still stuck on using GDI for drawing fonts rather than the new DirectWrite protocol. The poor quality of GDI (especially on high DPI displays) is very noticeable when you switch from Linux or macOS to a Windows app that uses it. I looked it up a while ago, and as I recall it was an issue with the Java runtime that JetBrains IDEs use.
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by holoduke on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @05:57AM (#20093494)
Well did you try out Linux bash on windows. In less than 2 minutes you setup a Debian instance. You got shells and everything. All well known ide's are available on both Windows and Mac. In my opinion there is no real difference anymore. I am a Mac user and windows user. The only reason why I still use my Mac is because of the ergonomics.
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by rusk on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @07:44AM (#20094009)
In my experience Mac OS still has the edge in terms of stability. But certainly the gap is closing.
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by barrkel on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @08:23AM (#20094263)
The only crashes I've had from NT kernel over the past 15 years or so are from graphics card drivers and bad RAM.

Linux is a lot less stable, as a laptop OS, than Windows or OSX. Suspend and resume in presence and absence of multiple monitors is like rolling dice; locks up about 15% of the time.

Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by wazoox on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @09:54AM (#20095010)
Not my experience. I used mostly Linux for 15 years, and I had zero problems with laptops, external screens and suspend in the past 8 years. I have a Linux laptop that's used for demo hooked up to a TV, settings are changed from dual screen to mirroring all the time, then it goes to sleep, is woken up with the TV off, etc, zero trouble, it hadn't rebooted in 2 months.

And Windows still requires random reboots for updates, of course usually at the worst possible time (fortunately I only use windows in VMs for testing). God how I hate Windows, it's unbearable really, after 5 minutes at the third nagging stupid popup (update Java! update Acrobat! update antivirus! don't turn off the computer, installing update 2 on 10532!) I want to throw the thing out of the window :)

Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by barrkel on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @01:57PM (#20097546)
I've been using Linux since 1996; not wet behind the ears. Graphics drivers are substantially worse on Linux than Windows, and even on Windows they're still the main source of problems.

A mix of dock and undock with multiple monitors is dodgy; like rolling a die. Plugging in the display port cable after a resume from a prior docked suspend, for a presentation, is flipping a coin.

Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by rusk on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @03:16PM (#20098255)
A lot of what you say describes a fairly common experience with Windows too. Perhaps not with a Thinkpad maybe but I’ve failed to revive a sleeping windows machine on a few occasions, and switching between output sources can be unpredictable too. Mac is the only platform which consistenly succeeds at these kinds of things because of the vertically integrates hardware. Its the drivers as you say ... I don’t think the actual o/s has much say in it beyond the drivers that are supported.
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by paulcarroty on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @09:55AM (#20095016)
> Linux is a lot less stable, as a laptop OS, than Windows or OSX.

Can't remember any major problems with Linux on laptops for latest 5 years. All works like charm.

If you use a cheap/noname/non-popular hardware - it happens, yes, but in Windows world too.

Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by barrkel on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @01:52PM (#20097482)
Lenovo Thinkpad.

It's the multi-monitor / dock interaction. It's just not solid.

Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by eropple on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @09:49PM (#20100856)
Which dock do you have?

I've had issues with USB-C docks. I've had zero issues over four different Thinkpads (FC28 and FC29) with the Lenovo Thunderbolt dock.

Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by rusk on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @08:31AM (#20094310)
Lucky you! I do a reboot on my Windows 10 machine every night. I also suffered from intermittent complete and total lockups due to a bug in what I traced to spotify. Similar thing happened with MacOS and safari recently enough too so I stopped using Safari for a while ...
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by AtlasLion on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @09:26AM (#20094756)
using a Lenovo P50 with windows 10 for 2 years now, I only reboot it maybe once a month, for the rest, I close the lid, it goes to sleep, next day in the office, I open the lid and continue where I stopped. so far I have had zero issues with it.
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by rusk on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @09:49AM (#20094963)
That's how I use my mac. Sad to say I've never had that experience with Windows but then again, I've never had a Lenovo ...
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by monocasa on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @10:45AM (#20095505)
What kind of machine do you have?
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by rusk on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @10:48AM (#20095534)
Why do you ask?
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by monocasa on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @03:37PM (#20098472)
To take your anecdote in context.
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by rusk on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @03:52PM (#20098600)
You think I’m making it up or something?
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by Daneel_ on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @05:10AM (#20102632)
Genuinely curious - which ergonomics do you mean? Macbooks have objectively terrible keyboards these days, and the lack of dedicated buttons on the trackpad makes two handed trackpad use a royal pain. Yes, the mouse movement is precise, but the trackpad doesn't blow my mind.

Old thinkpads with 7-row keyboards had proper ergonomics, to my mind anyway.

Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by 72deluxe on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @03:24AM (#20092687)
"from a development standpoint, MacOS still seems way ahead of Windows"

Sorry but have you heard of Visual Studio?

Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by ernst_klim on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @05:39AM (#20093403)
>Sorry but have you heard of Visual Studio?

A sluggish clumsy bloated IDE? What's good about it? I've used it for a couple of years when I wrote directshow filters, and it was a complete shit back in a days (2015-2017).

* terrible clumsy project system, where changing a flag is a quest. As abominable as autotools.

* using non-vcproj projects is a pain, especially when you have a bunch of make files

* It's slow as hell.

* Language support is lacking. No OCaml, no Lisp, hell, even C11 is a quest.

After they've added a package manager and clang support, it became less painful, but fur from great experience.

Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by oneplane on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @03:40AM (#20092788)
Everyone has heard of Visual Studio, and nobody that has to use it wants to. Just because you have Stockholm syndrome doesn't mean everyone else has to have it too ;-)
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by GuB-42 on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @07:17AM (#20093852)
It has been a long time since I used Visual Studio but I remember it as the best IDE I have ever used for C++.

I am now working on Linux with Sublime Text, Makefiles and the command line. I am most comfortable with that setup but there are many features that I miss from VS: the debugger, online help, code navigation, ...

Not that these features don't exist in other editors and IDEs, but with VS, they worked reliably and out of the box.

Note: VSCode is completely different. It is a multi-platform text editor, one of the best in town. A bit lacking in the performance department though, that's why I am still using Sublime Text.

Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by GlennS on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @05:10AM (#20093276)
I'm really suprised at this comment.

I'm confident most of the .NET community is very happy with Visual Studio.

In my opinion, Visual Studio massively outclasses Eclipse, VSCode and Netbeans. It even makes IntelliJ (which is pretty great too) look a bit inadequate.

(I use Emacs these days though.)

Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by ernst_klim on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @06:43AM (#20093691)
>from a development standpoint

>I'm confident most of the .NET community is very happy with Visual Studio

.NET is not the only ecosystem people develop for. There are embedded C/Forth, web frontend/backend, written in Java, Scala, Ruby, Python, other stuff. VS sucks for nearly everything safe C#/C++ for windows.

Besides, even for C# people use an additional plugin, resharper, so VS is not enough even for its target ecosystem.

Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by pjmlp on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @07:49AM (#20094047)
> Besides, even for C# people use an additional plugin, resharper, so VS is not enough even for its target ecosystem.

Those that have CPU cycles and memory to spare do.

Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by patates on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @05:27AM (#20102698)
ReSharper is a meme in the .NET world, similar to how Crysis in the gaming world is: https://i.imgur.com/LQkRlSN.png

I have a laptop with 64GB of memory just because I need to run VS + ReSharper in a VM. Seriously.

Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by oneplane on Thursday June 06, 2019 @11:16AM (#20115335)
It's why I put in: unless you have to use it, which means: if you target Windows. If you target anything else, you're probably not using it unless you already happen to have it. I agree that most IDEs are crap, it's pretty strange when you think about it, software developers developing software to develop software, but developing it badly so it now sucks for everyone.
Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by 72deluxe on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @03:52AM (#20092864)
Must be a different development sphere to me. I have to use xcode for dev on the Mac and it is feeble compared to VS. I can't think of a better IDE to be honest (C++, C# for me).

Whenever I have to use other offerings like Eclipse, Netbeans or Android Studio for other languages I am never very satisfied with them. Android Studio in particular breaks gradle and projects between updates, although Flutter seems to work.

Re:Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac by jannes on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @04:08AM (#20092954)
VS is pretty nice if you run it without plugins that slow it down (like ReSharper)