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Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by vonseel on Thursday May 23, 2019 @01:09PM (#19993629)
Legal avenues have already replaced illegal downloading of music for nearly all of us.

I grew up torrenting and was a proud member of what.cd when that tracker was still alive.

These days I listen to nearly all of my music on paid Spotify subscriptions. The number of people who have access to either Spotify, Amazon Prime, or Apple Music subscriptions must be huge. Those who don’t have paid subscriptions probably aren’t that interested in music in the first place.

Video is a different beast, but I do like Netflix. Torrents live on for new releases and less available content, though.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by SamuelAdams on Thursday May 23, 2019 @01:31PM (#19993862)
Agreed, I like Spotify quite a lot. But for movies, Netflix simply ins't cutting it these days. Try searching for any movie from 2000 - 2010 [1] that made more than a million in the box office on opening weekend. Most of them are not there. I want to watch films like Harry Potter, The Dark Knight, and Lord of the Rings. Unfortunately, they are either scattered across a dozen different services or simply not there at all.

What I would like is a rent-on-demand method. Xbox almost gets this right: they have plenty of titles you can rent for up to 24 hours. You typically pay between 3 - 6 dollars per film. More recent films are more expensive. However, I would like to see the cost go down, especially for older titles. Basically match any Redbox prices (1-2 dollars), and provide a way for me to stream it on-demand.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000s_in_film

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by mindcrime on Thursday May 23, 2019 @01:43PM (#19994016)
What I would like is a rent-on-demand method.

Have you tried Youtube? They have a pretty extensive catalog of rent-on-demand movies, and I rarely find a mainstream movie that I want to watch, that isn't in their catalog. Most of them range between $2.99 / $5.99 or so, with really recent releases going higher, and the rare oddball title that's $14.99 or something (presumably because that's what the rights-holder demanded?)

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by smacktoward on Thursday May 23, 2019 @05:36PM (#19996250)
Netflix dropped the idea of being a universal streaming library years ago; once the copyright holders realized the actual value of the streaming rights to their properties, they stopped letting Netflix license them for peanuts and the total cost of licensing everything became way too high even for Netflix.

That was what fueled their move towards producing original content -- they knew they wouldn't be able to license third party content for much longer, and they needed to have something people would want to watch when that day came. They've explicitly said they see their future as being the next HBO, where what draws subscribers is access to Netflix-original content you can't get anywhere else rather than access to a deep catalog of content from lots of different sources.

> Basically match any Redbox prices (1-2 dollars)

Redbox has the same advantage that Netflix had back when they were shipping discs by mail, namely that discs are a physical artifact and thus subject to the first sale doctrine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine), which says that the seller of a physical good can't put artificial restrictions on what the buyer of that artifact does with it after they buy it. As long as copyright holders sell movies and such on discs priced for everyday consumers, services like Redbox can also buy those discs at the same low price and then rent them out to people, and the copyright holders can't impose a post-sale restriction to stop them. They sold the disc, once they took the money they lost the right to say what it could be used for.

Stream the same movie instead of delivering it on disc, though, and now since there's no transfer of ownership of a physical artifact, the first sale doctrine no longer applies. Anyone who wants to stream that movie has to negotiate separate streaming rights with the copyright holder; the copyright holder is free to demand however much it wants to as part of that negotiation; and if that price is too rich, the would-be streamer doesn't have the option to just buy a bunch of licenses on the consumer market the way they would with discs. Their only options are to pay what the copyright holder demands, or not carry the title. So

All of which means that streaming services will always be at a severe disadvantage price-wise to services that rent out physical media -- even before you start factoring in the cost of all the infrastructure needed to stream video reliably to a global audience.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by vonseel on Monday May 27, 2019 @12:21AM (#20019414)
Yeah, Netflix is only really useful to me for originals, for the most part. Occasionally I'll watch something they've licensed from AMC / CW / etc. Netflix has been so successful they had to become a content powerhouse in order to survive. I did a B-school project on Netflix almost 10 years ago. This was before House of Cards, but after HoC had been discussed / announced. We talked about NF doing OC but at the time we had no clue if they would pull it off. They have been successful beyond our wildest.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by asdff on Thursday May 23, 2019 @02:55PM (#19994742)
I hate the rental model, it's extortion. It made sense when you had to return a disk to a store for others to rent, but putting an expiration date on a digital file is absurd. At least with redbox you can rip the DVD.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by zrobotics on Thursday May 23, 2019 @05:11PM (#19996009)
Well, if you consider ripping the DVD valid then there's absolutely nothing stopping you from saving the rented digital stream either. At the bare minimum, aside from whatever DRM is in place directly capturing the stream w/ OBS is always viable.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by ggg2 on Thursday May 23, 2019 @04:37PM (#19995654)
specially when you are already paying a fixed monthly fee for the transfer cost of the near-zero-cost-to-them crappy non-premium media content, which is the same bandwidth cost to provide you with reruns of what you "rented" before.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by saagarjha on Friday May 24, 2019 @03:30AM (#19999268)
> I want to watch films like Harry Potter, The Dark Knight, and Lord of the Rings. Unfortunately, they are either scattered across a dozen different services or simply not there at all.

FWIW, Netflix has had a scattered selection of The Dark Knight and Lord of the Rings off-and-on recently. I guess that might be your point, though…

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by imiric on Thursday May 23, 2019 @01:31PM (#19993869)
> Those who don’t have paid subscriptions probably aren’t that interested in music in the first place.

Or aren't interested in supporting closed corporations that benefit financially more than the artists who produced the music in the first place. It's a predatory system trying to get grandfathered in from the (g)olden music industry days, and to be fair involves bigger fish than streaming services (labels, promoters, etc.).

I'd provide a counter argument putting blame on artists: those who aren't selling and promoting themselves via a personal website or websites like Bandcamp probably aren't that interested in monetizing their music career.

As someone still paying monthly subscriptions to streaming services, I've recently begun to purchase more DRM-free music in lossless format. I get the best possible quality of audio, directly support the artist (or more directly than via streaming), and I get to keep the music indefinitely, as long as I can manage the storage requirements. It's not cheap nor easy, but I believe it's the fair approach for consuming music, and look forward to the day I disable my streaming subscriptions.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by H1Supreme on Thursday May 23, 2019 @01:49PM (#19994091)
> I get the best possible quality of audio, directly support the artist (or more directly than via streaming), and I get to keep the music indefinitely, as long as I can manage the storage requirements

This is why I love Bandcamp. Lossless format for my good stereo at home, mp3's for my car, and streaming when I'm at work.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by vonseel on Monday May 27, 2019 @12:32AM (#20019463)
Hm, I understand your perspective but it's really a different topic altogether. "Paid subscriptions" may have been an accidentally narrow group of people, but I just can't imagine many houses with some discretionary income that aren't subscribed to Amazon Prime or at least one Spotify / Apple Music / Tidal / etc. account. That's probably naive of me.

There is a whole class of people who are content listening to whatever is on the radio or the same 20 year old CD's they've had forever without ever seeking new music or even knowing what's playing. That's really what I meant by people without paid subscriptions not caring.

I prefer the subscription model. I rarely get hooked on an album, but when I do, I'll listen to it on repeat for 1- a few months - and then I'll might not ever listen to it much again. These albums might be the only ones that make sense for me to buy (and even though, maybe not - I might hate it in 3 months - but let's consider the expense like a circus ticket or something, pay to experience pleasure).

On the other hand, a bunch of the stuff I hear on Spotify, I never seek again, it's just background noise. Sometimes this turns into a relationship and they win a fan, sometimes they don't.

The best way to support artists is by attending shows.

I have been hooked on Mac Miller's album Swimming for the past few weeks. Sadly, he passed, but he's the first artist I've ordered merch for, maybe ever, because I liked the album so much. Highly recommended. Start on track one and play through.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by mAEStro-paNDa on Thursday May 23, 2019 @01:45PM (#19994038)
Going the independent route as a musician doesn't necessarily mean they'll successfully monetize their music. While more artists are doing this, there's still a lot of the old "looking to get signed" mentality. I agree with your post, but I wanted to point out that someone not taking the more independent routes doesn't necessarily mean they aren't interested in monetizing their work.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by hackeridiot on Thursday May 23, 2019 @02:56PM (#19994760)
AFAIK, bands don't make a lot of money from selling albums anyway. Most of their income comes from ticket sales and tour merch.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by HeadsUpHigh on Friday May 24, 2019 @02:58PM (#20004336)
Which doesn't have to be the case if they take the self-publication route.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by officeplant on Thursday May 23, 2019 @01:44PM (#19994020)
> Those who don’t have paid subscriptions probably aren’t that interested in music in the first place.

Sorry I just don't buy into the spotify/applemusic/etc life. I adore music, but my first step is usually supporting the artist directly via bandcamp when possible. Luckily a huge amount of artists I follow have bandcamp pages. It's not as direct as going to a show and buying merch/albums there, but I don't get a lot of shows near me for the genre's I prefer.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by mattdotc on Thursday May 23, 2019 @03:27PM (#19995092)
>Those who don’t have paid subscriptions probably aren’t that interested in music in the first place.

Or we run our own media streaming setup rather than pay Spotify $10/month. Spotify gives the illusion of supporting artists but the artists you listen to will never see a significant amount of money from your subscription fee.

I've downloaded thousands of albums over the years and have my own music library. Why should I pay Spotify for doing the same thing? This is literally how they seeded their library when they started out.

I have since mainly moved from torrenting to buying vinyl and using Bandcamp like others here have mentioned. I still see artists tour on occasion, but I'm not convinced that touring is sustainable for musicians, so I'd rather buy the album.

It's sad to me that so many have bought the lie that Spotify et al have pushed. They are no different from the music labels.

DIY 'til I die.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by vonseel on Monday May 27, 2019 @12:40AM (#20019517)
Spotify is worth it alone for the discovery to me now, and I grew up with my weirdo foobar music player and etc.

I don't know what your impression of Spotify is, but it seems quite different than mine. When I think Spotify, I think Discover Weekly, awesome machine learning that finds artists similar to whatever I was listening to every time I listen to an album / artist all the way through, often finding me new favorites, well made apps that integrate nicely between my iPhone / Mac desktop app - I can easily resume something on a different player. This seems like it's getting smarter. I don't really use it the way I used to use Foobar / Winamp / iTunes - but I probably abuse it. I create playlists for whatever I'm listening to lately, and just access those. I don't want to scroll 2000 artists in my library.

Downsides I've experienced - not many: - quality not quite as good as Apple Music or Tidal ( and definitely not as good as FLAC, lol ). This isn't really a problem for me unless I A/B something. Sometimes the library is missing something. These songs are probably not available from competitors either. - Lyrics view? WTH guys seriously, this was good at first and now it only occasionally shows "Behind the music with Genius'... assuming this is licensing problems but if you can work out streaming rights, can't you work out lyric sheet rights? - That might actually be all of them.

Buying vinyl is cool but I'll never listen to it. Inconvenient. It's a cool souvenir.

I used to have a big FLAC library. Somewhere along the road, it was lost, along with many other digital heirlooms.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by skinnymuch on Thursday May 23, 2019 @07:53PM (#19997183)
Isn’t touring how they make most of their money? Hasn’t that always been the case?
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by claudiawerner on Thursday May 23, 2019 @02:04PM (#19994233)
>These days I listen to nearly all of my music on paid Spotify subscriptions.

This is absurd from my perspective; to go from the wealth of music created through history and countries available on what.cd such as the bootleg recordings of live music in a small Cairo bar to the limited and commercialized selection of what's on Spotify (and I do have experience with it), along with the fact you no longer "own" (in an informal sense) the music.

Music on the periphery, older releases and things people may not want to listen to are my lifeblood. I couldn't imagine being only able to access Spotify. It works for you and that's good - but for me (and I imagine quite a few other music enthusiasts) it's a totally different situation. Often if it's not on Soulseek or a torrent tracker then the only way for me to obtain it is through buying a physical copy, maybe from an online collector's marketplace like Discogs.

I might throw in an endorsement of the very new things one can find on Bandcamp too - I've profited greatly from that variety.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by vonseel on Monday May 27, 2019 @12:56AM (#20019574)
You might be pointing out how limited my musical taste is, lol.

I am a (hobbyist) musician and producer and my focuses have definitely narrowed inward the past several years. I wouldn't consider myself someone who listens to a lot of new music all the time and a bunch of unknown stuff. (but) I listen to more than most people - last.fm puts me at about 75-78% on number of artists, tracks, and albums listened to. Usually I jam an artist for a few months and learn all of their discography and when I am burnt out I move on. Sometimes I hit a dead patch and don't find a new artist that I love for a while.

The last albums (artists) I fell in love with were (mentioned in earlier comment) Mac Miller - Swimming, Caroline Rose - LONER, Kanye West - Life of Pablo. But really, I fell in love with these artists, and I like their earlier works as much as their more recent work, even when its much different.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by mustacheemperor on Thursday May 23, 2019 @05:08PM (#19995970)
I was ready to make this exact same reply - the convenience and popularity of Spotify is exactly why the current copyright environment fails the consumer and why What.cd existed for more noble reasons than "let's rob the record labels." That failure extends past just cloud streaming, because huge swathes of What.cd can't even be acquired physically either - good luck finding that beat tape J Dilla handed out on cassette at shows in 1997 Detroit, that indie electronic album that was pressed to vinyl once, etc.

I love Spotify too! But it is a perfect example of how copyright law gatekeeps the creative media we can consume, for reasons purely inherent to the system and not attributable to any individual's malice. Nobody set out to create an ubiquitous streaming service that's missing music people could love, it's simply impossible to create something else legally.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by vonseel on Monday May 27, 2019 @12:57AM (#20019579)
>good luck finding that beat tape J Dilla handed out on cassette at shows in 1997 Detroit

Ugh, now that I am actually making music I wish I had access to what.cd. When I was using it all I really wanted was the best FLAC / best master of a nice Vinyl I could find.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by butteroverflow on Thursday May 23, 2019 @01:22PM (#19993765)
>For nearly all of us in the US

I live in one of the poorer countries. I know not a single person with a paid subscription of any kind.

qBittorrent with an RSS feed is miles ahead of any paid offer anyway.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by Iv on Thursday May 23, 2019 @01:28PM (#19993846)
Ssshhh! Maybe if we don't tell them they won't get to us!
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by vonseel on Monday May 27, 2019 @12:58AM (#20019581)
:(

I'm sorry :/

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by Jonnax on Thursday May 23, 2019 @01:40PM (#19993973)
So what funding model do you agree with? Since you getting for free means somebody is paying otherwise more of what you consume won't be made.

So if everyone decided to torrent, there won't be a market.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by asdff on Thursday May 23, 2019 @03:04PM (#19994843)
One that doesn't make the MPAA cartel filthy rich. I'd love to pay creators directly for content, but the model is set up to pay the boardroom enormous sums of cash vs. what the people actively working on the production recieve.

Very very rarely does a movie not make money. Even flops make money years after release. The latest avengers movie cost 356m to make, including everyone's salary on the film. It made the studios 2.63 billion. There is no investment in the world that can give you that kind of return. Was that 2.3b in profit split among the cast and crew? Absolutely not. It was feasted upon by the executives of walt disney, those poor deserving souls.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by brokenmachine on Thursday May 23, 2019 @09:22PM (#19997659)
I think the argument is that for every latest Avengers movie, there are 10 movies that didn't make any money.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by sgift on Friday May 24, 2019 @02:51AM (#19999099)
With Hollywood accounting there is no way to proof this and well .. with all the shady things the movie industry and their cronies did over the years they kind of lost the "but you should trust us on this" position. Maybe if we fixed it we could have a real discussion about what makes money and what doesn't.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by brokenmachine on Sunday May 26, 2019 @07:29PM (#20018275)
100% agree, I'm just saying the argument.

Honestly I couldn't care less if Hollywood goes away with it's predictable formulaic cookie cutter focus-group movies.

It would be nice to see more movies where a director has an actual artistic vision and sees it through.

You don't need a billion dollars to make a movie with a good story, developed characters and good acting.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by r3bl on Thursday May 23, 2019 @02:14PM (#19994351)
$5 means a lot more to someone who earns $5 in a day.

Look, if the companies are willing to look into a minimum wage and median salary when crafting prices for different countries, we might be easily convinced.

Do you know how much stuff you have available in Netflix? Now imagine having a choice between pirating and paying the same price as you do in a developed country for like 30% of the US catalogue. All that while earning much, much less.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by Jonnax on Thursday May 23, 2019 @02:36PM (#19994548)
Regional pricing is a thing. In fact many deal sites go into how to pay less for streaming services via VPN.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by Mirioron on Thursday May 23, 2019 @03:03PM (#19994837)
You do get a majorly diminished catalogue though.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by Endy on Thursday May 23, 2019 @02:03PM (#19994221)
I disagree. The market would shift. We would see a very clear split between talented and passionate amateurs creating for the joy of creation and large soulless productions which release only behind paywalls. Frankly, I'm all in favor of "artist" being a hobby and not a career.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by Jonnax on Thursday May 23, 2019 @02:37PM (#19994557)
The joy of creation doesn't pay the bills or put food on the table.

Most people working a full time job barely have free time.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by Endy on Thursday May 23, 2019 @02:45PM (#19994630)
You are correct, and what you state with disparaging feeling, I state with glee. The joy of creation should not put food on the table. You should have to work like the rest of us. If you have no time, make time and budget to create in the time you do get.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by Jonnax on Friday May 24, 2019 @03:04AM (#19999143)
You've an inflated sense of the importance and value of the work you do. As well as trying to pretend that creativity is not work.

At the same time you talk about pirating so you feel entitled to have the fruit of other people's labour whilst saying it has no value. Gleeful in your hypocrisy.

Why are you on this website to discuss technology? Most things made are pointless rubbish going off your definition.

What do you do for a living that in your opinion is actually worth money?

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by buildzr on Thursday May 23, 2019 @03:08PM (#19994898)
It's interesting - for music this has basically been solved because the industry was under tight financial pressures and many companies including Spotify, Apple and Google were able to work out large scale licensing deals. Heck, most music can be obtained legally for free on YouTube these days.

Compare with video where the market is fragmenting beyond repair and I get asked to pirate things for family and friends several times a week. In the gaming world, they never really got the subscription thing worked out decently, the titles are extremely expensive and now fragmentation is annoying consumers there too.

I hope more of these near-zero margin goods will go the cheap subscription route in the future. It makes this a much simpler time for consumers. Right now, I don't know what service even has a given TV show so it's easier to just click the button in Sonarr and watch it show up on my NAS a few minutes later.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by Ayesh on Friday May 24, 2019 @01:45AM (#19998804)
> In the gaming world, they never really got the subscription thing worked out decently, the titles are extremely expensive and now fragmentation is annoying consumers there too.

Haven't they, though? In mobile, free-to-play model has solved most of the friction. For PC/console, Steam and Origin are doing a good job too. Most games on Steam cost less than $50, and that's weeks if not many months of entertainment.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by buildzr on Friday May 24, 2019 @10:30AM (#20001903)
> In mobile, free-to-play model has solved most of the friction.

Not really, this model is pretty awful as it creates motivations for developers to make the game repetitive or overly difficult in order to convince people to pay for stuff. Just look at the recent mobile Lemmings game, they lock you out of the game with a timer, offering only temporary timer bypasses in the store. A few developers sell a simple "get out of bullshit and ads pass" which does solve it though.

Overall though in the mobile world this hasn't been an issue as the expectation of prices for paid games is far lower.

> Most games on Steam cost less than $50

AAA titles are still $60 and in recent years often include "season passes" and similar, doubling their costs.

> that's weeks if not many months of entertainment.

I get over 50 hours out of probably 1/20 games.

So overall, I'd say far from solved still. Origin has attempted a subscription model but it's expensive and offers only trials of recent releases and significantly older titles. Humble Bundle actually has a decent subscription service going on, but it's not on the sort of "all access" model you get with music or movies.

Perhaps streaming game services will change this, but I do worry that they're a move in the wrong direction in other ways.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by Hydraulix989 on Thursday May 23, 2019 @01:22PM (#19993762)
Much of the music I listen to is not on Spotify. Getting rid of what.cd meant losing really rare high quality rips not found anywhere else. The music recommendations on that site were top notch. It was the digital burning of the Library of Alexandria.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by asdff on Thursday May 23, 2019 @03:07PM (#19994878)
It's just a matter of getting the community reorganized. That's the beauty of bit torrent. Content is hosted no where in particular, instead it's maintained everywhere. The seeders just need to be rallied.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by vonseel on Monday May 27, 2019 @12:58AM (#20019584)
I did not expect to see so many what.cd expats on HN!
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by Iv on Thursday May 23, 2019 @01:28PM (#19993840)
These days I just search the music I want on youtube and then youtube-dl it.

Things youtube don't have (I am french and I know that a lot of french punk/rock/metal I like is not easily found) Spotify is unlikely to have either.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by noisem4ker on Thursday May 23, 2019 @02:18PM (#19994389)
YouTube probably has the best catalogue of electronic music too, but since they removed the 256Kbps AAC format, we're stuck with the audibly lousy, frequency-limited 128Kbps crap. Well, it was good till it lasted.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by clarry on Thursday May 23, 2019 @03:10PM (#19994919)
What frequency limit do you see?

Opus is transparent at that rate. Heck it's virtually transparent at 96 kbps, and does a great job at 64 kbps.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by bscphil on Thursday May 23, 2019 @06:04PM (#19996484)
They're probably getting mp3 streams I would imagine. Definitely not transparent at 128 kbps. I'm not sure who Youtube streams Opus to, I should look into that.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by Iv on Thursday May 23, 2019 @10:38PM (#19998000)
On a random electro-swing video I get the following choices in youtube-dl:

audio only DASH audio 53k , opus @ 50k, 1.01MiB

audio only DASH audio 69k , opus @ 70k, 1.34MiB

audio only DASH audio 130k , m4a_dash container, mp4a.40.2@128k, 2.63MiB

audio only DASH audio 136k , vorbis@128k, 2.59MiB

audio only DASH audio 140k , opus @160k, 2.69MiB

Seems pretty decent to me.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by bscphil on Friday May 24, 2019 @12:03AM (#19998384)
Yes, I'm actually quite impressed that they offer opus @160k. The real issue with Youtube is that you never know what the source was. If they're reencoding that from a 128 kbps mp3, that suddenly becomes much less impressive.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by rakoo on Thursday May 23, 2019 @06:06PM (#19996498)
I don't even bother with youtube-dl anymore, I just use newpipe and listen on the go. YouTube's catalogue is quite unmatched.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by Iv on Thursday May 23, 2019 @10:35PM (#19997992)
Problem is that its content can disappear and frequently does. Most of the playlists I have made are 50% "unavailable" after a year or two.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by rakoo on Friday May 24, 2019 @04:05AM (#19999458)
I have used it for about the same amount of time and haven't seen any songs removed, but I guess it depends on what we're listening to.

Newpipe also has the ability to download music for offline listening as well, that's a pretty good backup plan

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by stOneskull on Thursday May 23, 2019 @08:06PM (#19997262)
thanks for your comment. i didn't know about newpipe.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by crispinb on Monday May 27, 2019 @12:42AM (#20019525)
> Those who don’t have paid subscriptions probably aren’t that interested in music in the first place

.. or find that the endless-firehose model doesn't suit them? I honestly just prefer to buy one album (either CD or digital download) or so per month. The affordances of that encourage me to choose carefully and listen with attention rather than vaguely skim. I'd rather get to know a few things well than lots superficially. It's a bit like web-skimming vs reading books. Of course you can read long form on the web, just as you can get to know bodies of music well on Spotify et al, but it's going against the grain.

[Edit: in fact on reflection, my view is almost the opposite to yours: streaming subscriptions suit a listening habit not that interested in music per se, that desires ongoing background novelty]

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by asdff on Thursday May 23, 2019 @02:52PM (#19994713)
Music is acceptable. Spotify/apple music is a one stop shop, and the only reason why I'm on spotify over apple music is the education discount; the services are otherwise identical in my eyes. Legal limewire.

With video, its awful. Networks and production companies are all to eager to cancel licenses and pull their content off of a service. The golden goose is that every network and production has their own service that they milk customers for $9.99 a month for (like Disney's B.S.). The end result is instead of you paying $100 a month for cable, you are paying $100 a month for 10 different services to get the same coverage. Back to piracy it is.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by XorNot on Thursday May 23, 2019 @06:51PM (#19996822)
Your summary of the music situation feels very accurate given that in general Spotify and other services are apparently terrible for artists. Which was less of a concern for me when I was on the mainstream pop train, and has become a huge concern now that I've been exploring into less popular genres (and leaves an interesting dilemma: if it doesn't make it viable for artists somehow, what's the point?)
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by anieberry on Friday May 24, 2019 @09:19AM (#20001115)
Before Spotify and streaming, artists were already getting their pants pulled down by record distributors. At least now many artists can distribute their own music and keep more of the cut.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by p1esk on Thursday May 23, 2019 @01:15PM (#19993699)
These days free streaming sites like putlocker have good enough quality most of the time (720p or better). Unless you want BR quality, and don't mind waiting overnight for the 20GB+ download to finish.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by BlueTemplar on Thursday May 23, 2019 @01:47PM (#19994056)
If it's not a sitcom, I'd rather have FullHD quality (which is between 1 and 5 GB / hour for h265/264). And streaming is strictly inferior to downloading, as long as your bandwidth is good enough (since you can start watching while you download).
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by p1esk on Thursday May 23, 2019 @02:56PM (#19994761)
For me it's either watching something on a 13" laptop, where 720p quality is sufficient and torrenting is just too much hassle, or having a "serious" cinematic experience on a 75" 4k HDR panel, where you want to have the best available quality (i.e. 4k BR rip with minimal compression). So Netflix just isn't very attractive, especially if it does not have some of the movies I want to watch.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by BlueTemplar on Sunday May 26, 2019 @03:27AM (#20013605)
I just recently upgraded to a 1920x1080 101 cm flat screen TV - I'll consider upgrading to UHD-1 HDR when more content is available - most of it seems to be upscaled 2k, and when I tried to buy Planet Earth 2, they didn't even have it in stock ! (Not to mention that I would have had to buy an Xbox just to play it...)
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by bscphil on Thursday May 23, 2019 @06:07PM (#19996508)
Depends on what you consider full HD. Sure, if you're getting something from a streaming site you'll be lucky to get 5 GB/hr. But from a high quality source like a Bluray I would say 6 GB / hr is about the absolute minimum (for a crappy old transfer), and over 15 GB / hr would not be unheard of.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by BlueTemplar on Sunday May 26, 2019 @03:31AM (#20013610)
Well yes, "good enough" is very subjective.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by brokenmachine on Thursday May 23, 2019 @09:17PM (#19997627)
> Those who don’t have paid subscriptions probably aren’t that interested in music in the first place.

I'm very interested in music but I won't pay for low-quality streaming and music I've paid for that could disappear at any time or be geoblocked.

If it's not DRM-free FLAC that I can easily convert to MP3 for the car/portable player, or whatever format I may choose in the future, then I'm not paying for it.

Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by bitcoinmoney on Thursday May 23, 2019 @07:19PM (#19996990)
Spotify still don’t have the eclectic selection of live music ripped by what.cd members. 90% it can pass but man I miss whatcd sometimes.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by bikeshed on Thursday May 23, 2019 @09:23PM (#19997663)
after what went away I moved on to the two sites that replaced it (xanax and redacted) and the selection and convenience is almost as good as what was. If I buy something it’s almost always on vinyl or from the artist’s own site.
Re:After 15 Years, the Pirate Bay Still Can’t Be Killed by poium99 on Thursday May 23, 2019 @01:23PM (#19993782)
I’m not arguing against mercantilism itself in the context of art, really.

Just the lock-in currently enjoyed by the companies that own the MPAA and RIAA. If all the work is done on a digital platform and can be published to a dozen websites with a few clicks, their traditional distribution arrangements hold less value.

I say own even though legally that’s not accurate. The studios effectively control MPAA/RIAA talking points. Those two groups exist to make lobbying for studio interests more economical. Again, the elite get what the labor class does not: unions.

I digress.