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Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by sandworm101 on Monday May 13, 2019 @09:54AM (#19899219)
I'm surprised that Amazon still uses boxes. They have the market power to insist manufacturers comply with amazon-specific packaging requirements. Why not just insist that all products be packaged in postal-compatible packaging? Then the amazon warehouse robot need only slap a label on the product and throw it in the shipping bin.

Another answer would be to have products packaged in standard, or at lease square, boxes that could be thrown into larger shipping boxes.

Or do away with the warehouse altogether and have products ship directly from manufacturers. I wonder if anyone has tried that?

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by blairanderson on Monday May 13, 2019 @11:17AM (#19900111)
You mentioned two processes that have been in place with Amazon Vendors/Manufacturers for many years.

1. Amazon Direct Fulfillment (dropship): Order is shipped directly from the manufacturer to the customer. Amazon pays for the shipping label and contractually "own" the item once it leaves the MFR doors. Amazon incentivizes Manufacturers by paying the freight and loosening shipment deadlines. [1]

2. Ships In Own Container (Amazon SIOC) certification puts the responsibility on the manufacturer to certify their products can be shipped without extra packaging. MFR pays for the testing/certification from a third-party. After July 3st 2019, Amazon will charge/fine manufacturers $2/unit received that are NOT SIOC certified and greater than a certain dimensional threshold. [2]

Its a tough economic balance for Amazon because they want to keep shipping stuff, but many MFRs will literally stop selling items to Amazon on July 31st because the costs of SIOC certification are greater than the estimated product profitability.

Source: I am a consultant for Manufacturers that sell to Amazon. [3]

1: https://www.andersonassociates.net/guides/amazon/what-is-dro...

2: https://www.andersonassociates.net/2018/frustration-free/

3: https://www.andersonassociates.net

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by mschuster91 on Monday May 13, 2019 @12:08PM (#19900690)
> Ships In Own Container (Amazon SIOC) certification puts the responsibility on the manufacturer to certify their products can be shipped without extra packaging.

Sorry, but how can this be a good idea? I'd hate if I ordered something expensive, for example a digital camera, and every porch pirate (or shady parcel delivery subcontractor) immediately sees "this thing is worth a couple grand", compared with the usual Amazon grey packaging.

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by blairanderson on Monday May 13, 2019 @03:13PM (#19902832)
Its usually a brown cardboard overbox with a barcode that has extensive droptesting.

More common these days is for manufacturers to produce items, and separately purchase very durable over-boxes that are sent to eCommerce customers like amazon/walmart/bestbuy/etc.

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by mcintyre1994 on Monday May 13, 2019 @12:11PM (#19900719)
I often see an indicator on Amazon that the product ships in packaging that reveals what it is, with an option to select Amazon packaging instead.
Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by wffurr on Monday May 13, 2019 @01:43PM (#19901713)
If you're worried about porch pirates - use a locker instead. They're already stealing some of your packages anyway.

Shady subcontractors are Amazon's problem.

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by Avshalom on Monday May 13, 2019 @07:46PM (#19905247)
Its already the reality for most TVs and furniture (at least from Target), child car seats/strollers are the other big one that's always ship-alone
Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by pkaye on Monday May 13, 2019 @01:01PM (#19901260)
I've usually seen an option to select the kind of packaging at time order is placed.
Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by michaelper22 on Monday May 13, 2019 @12:47PM (#19901097)
This box of rubber gloves is SIOC and hopefully isn't too attractive to porch pirates: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01JGLWP3S
Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by petra on Monday May 13, 2019 @05:34PM (#19904213)
A side question:

Blair, how do you Amazon's private label effort ? How will that end, would we buy mostly Amazon exclusive brands ?

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by blairanderson on Monday May 13, 2019 @06:16PM (#19904551)
Yes its going to continue in a huge way.

Their retail team used to consist mostly of buyers. Most of those resources have shifted to private label.

Imagine a thousand people previously managing external brands now focused on finding/creating private label brands with the data of sales volume at their fingertips.

They have something like 150 private label brands right now.

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by petra on Monday May 13, 2019 @10:43AM (#19899725)
So there are 2 options:

1. Amazon changes the market(a huge challenge). it's now easier for manufacturers and other retailers to do e-commerce.

2. Amazon becomes the best in the world in packaging, and keeps the skill to itself. It's now harder to compete with Amazon.

Naturally Amazon prefers #2.

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by m463 on Monday May 13, 2019 @06:01PM (#19904438)
what about #3 - amazon tells sellers to ship to buyers, does no packaging, still makes money

Of course, there's no reason #2 can be a check-and-balance against #3 becoming too expensive/independent.

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by marcosdumay on Monday May 13, 2019 @10:51PM (#19906395)
That's #1. It depends on the sellers accepting the extra tasks, and doing them competently while harming Amazon's brand if they don't. It also prepares those same services to sell though other intermediaries that can not compete today with Amazon's logistics.

Why would Amazon comoditize its greatest competitive advantage? (Yet, it seems that they are, so the question is not rhetorical.)

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by PorterDuff on Monday May 13, 2019 @10:22AM (#19899493)
Smart dudes have wrestled over those problems for years. I think the strongest case for dropshipping would be new cars. The dealerships have presented a problem for people for years, but they are politically well connected.

It's a lot easier for a manufacturer to send a boxcar of toilet paper to a warehouse (Amazon or otherwise) than to mail the case to you. Lacking Amazon or Safeway, they'd probably just recreate a similar system in the form of a co-op.

In any case, I don't doubt they've gamed and spreadsheeted the bejeepers out of dropshipping, returnable containers, standardized containers, third party (USPS) vs. self shipping vs. drones, etc.

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by jsight on Monday May 13, 2019 @11:16AM (#19900110)
> Smart dudes have wrestled over those problems for years. I think the strongest case for dropshipping would be new cars. The dealerships have presented a problem for people for years, but they are politically well connected.

I've been studying this lately, and it really seems to be more than that. Consumers love to compare goods based upon initial purchase price (or even loan payment price) with relatively little regard for the long-term cost of that good.

As evidence, take a look through AutoNation's annual report, in which they clearly make more gross profit on part sales & service, finance, and extended warranties than on actual car sales. It is to the point that it is questionable if the business would be viable only on the basis of new & used car sales alone.

A business that chooses to try to make profit without these addons will ultimately have to sell more expensive cars. Will consumers understand the difference?

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by User23 on Monday May 13, 2019 @11:27AM (#19900232)
This generalizes: most individuals can't or won't think past the first order effects of any decision. Marketers know this and prey on it accordingly.
Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by evandijk70 on Monday May 13, 2019 @12:13PM (#19900729)
Interesting, and could be 'fixed' by the trend of leasing cars, where you pay a fixed fee for maintenance and use of cars.
Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by hef19898 on Monday May 13, 2019 @11:05AM (#19899975)
My impression is that Amazon is kind of biased in that regard. There are valid reasons to keep the warehouse logistics in-house. And they did invest a lot of energy into that. It just bugs me that Dropshopping was never really pushed while the logistical powers to be ever so slightly pushed against it.

Nothing wrong with that, but it could very well be the first clue that Amazon is behaving more like an incumbent than a disrupter as described in the Innovator's Dilemma.

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by gregmac on Monday May 13, 2019 @10:18AM (#19899449)
They have to strike a balance to optimize between shipping costs, time spent packing, packing material costs, claims due to damage during transit and insurance/theft costs.

If items are usually/never ordered by themselves, packing in a larger box might still always work out to be cheaper than paying for shipping for two boxes.

There's already enough of a problem with theft of generic 'Amazon'-branded boxes -- can you imagine if things were regularly shipped with $high_value-brand labeling on the outside (if not just glossy full-color retail box)?

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by nextos on Monday May 13, 2019 @10:26AM (#19899536)
True. In fact, they tend to ship big items in their original retail packaging. E.g. vacuum cleaners. Not good. In my case I got 2 damaged items out of 3 shipments with said boxing.

Now they have included a free option to wrap inside another bigger Amazon box. I guess they got too many damaged items and complaints from customers.

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by j-c-hewitt on Monday May 13, 2019 @02:41PM (#19902440)
This would be impractical. For one thing, scuff-resistant packaging material is also necessarily less attractive than glossy and colorful packaging that holds high detail photographs & illustrations better.

This would also be very inefficient because you would have to store the postal-ready boxes at the fulfillment warehouses in an inefficient way instead of just putting them into bins. When shipping products to customers, also, it's often more efficient to pack multiple products into a single box to ensure both durability and cost efficiency.

Most of the goods available on Amazon also do not come direct from the factory. They come from various intermediaries. Not all products are shipped from the Amazon FBA warehouses, either. So, there are many reasons why it is impossible.

It is possible to ship to customers direct from the factory, as some other comments have mentioned. However, as you might imagine, this is impossible for many businesses. Processing customer orders is time and labor intensive particularly because it involves making many tiny shipments versus shipping out entire truckloads at a time only. Furthermore, contract manufacturing is very common. A given factory may be manufacturing products for many different brands at the same time and a certain brand can have its products manufactured in entirely different countries at the same time.

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by fwip on Monday May 13, 2019 @08:22PM (#19905508)
Or yet another complication: reconfiguring to manufacture a new product usually takes a lot of work. A product will be only produced for a week or two, but sold over a period of months or years. The factory isn't in the storage and shipping business, so why not send it to somebody who is?
Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by snarf21 on Monday May 13, 2019 @11:30AM (#19900260)
I think you are diminishing the importance of brands and brand loyalty for companies. A lot of effort is spent to have boxes designed for retail; size, shape, color, etc. matter a lot for this use case. Resistance to weather and being thrown around are not the main consideration of this use case. Standard size boxes that are shippable might be good for Amazon and the consumer but companies always want the brand front and center.
Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by BurningFrog on Monday May 13, 2019 @11:50AM (#19900481)
Surely a box could be both shippable and branded?

One problem is that showing what's inside helps thieves.

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by solarkraft on Monday May 13, 2019 @12:04PM (#19900639)
... and costs privacy.
Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by shiftpgdn on Monday May 13, 2019 @11:30AM (#19900267)
The vast majority (95%, including lots of oddball pcbs, fasteners, etc) of my recent Amazon deliveries have come from an Amazon van. I'm almost surprised they don't offer a reusable bin or something of that nature. It feels wasteful to throw away so many boxes.
Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by mikepurvis on Monday May 13, 2019 @11:47AM (#19900459)
When I was in Seattle for an internship about a decade ago, I would get books and other sortable items thrown in with my Amazon Fresh deliveries— they would show up in the same rugged plastic tote as the pantry items, and the tote would be picked up again the next day. It was a great system.
Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by myself248 on Monday May 13, 2019 @11:49AM (#19900477)
Especially with the recent news that a lot of what we thought was recyclable really isn't. I presume that clean brown corrugated is still OK, but I don't know that for sure.
Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by JudgeWapner on Monday May 13, 2019 @06:53PM (#19904848)
oh it is "recyclable", just (for several materials) takes more energy to recycle it than toss it in a landfill. You get to feel good that cardboard gets a "new life", instead of a new one (which extracts more carbon from the atmosphere) being created, we can burn more CO2 to have a second truck travel down your street to pick up renewable cardboard and haul it around town till it eventually gets cleaned and processed (at the cost of even more energy).
Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by icegreentea2 on Monday May 13, 2019 @10:19AM (#19899465)
I mean, they probably don't have the market power to do that. Online retail is still only ~10% of total retail (in the US). Amazon might be dominant within online retail, but they still aren't quite enough I feel.
Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by mft_ on Monday May 13, 2019 @10:26AM (#19899531)
> Or do away with the warehouse altogether and have products ship directly from manufacturers. I wonder if anyone has tried that?

Erm... manufacturers have been shipping their own products for years... but they're not very good at it, compared to Amazon?

As in, they offer standard slow shipping (vs. same-day or next-day with Prime), shipping you have to pay for per item (vs. Prime), shipping that is often unreasonably expensive (vs. Prime) and have other issues resulting in a worse UX e.g. poorer website design, and/or signing up for individual accounts with every website (vs. Prime).

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by adrianmonk on Monday May 13, 2019 @12:34PM (#19900959)
All products? That would be 12 million different products according to this site: https://www.retailtouchpoints.com/resources/type/infographic...

Even as big as they are, I don't think they have that much power. So maybe they could do that with some items, but they're still going to have to package some items.

In some cases, it might even be less efficient to do it this way. It means spending more up front on packaging, so the time value of money is a factor. Also, some products never sell, so why create packaging for them that will never be used? And an already-packaged product may take up more space on warehouse shelves. It might only be 10% more space or something, but 10% of everything adds up.

Also, sometimes people order more than one item. It is probably more economical to ship everything in one box. (Postage would be lower, and it might still cost less even if Amazon does the delivery themselves.)

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by dickeytk on Monday May 13, 2019 @09:55AM (#19899236)
Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by double0jimb0 on Monday May 13, 2019 @10:02AM (#19899316)
No, that's not what Frustration Free Packaging is. "FFP" is just easy to open cardboard product packaging, basically no blister packs.

They still put your FFP box into another bigger shipping box.

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by vorpalhex on Monday May 13, 2019 @10:21AM (#19899482)
This depends on the product. Significant amounts of FFP are meant to reduce waste and not require overboxing.
Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by dickeytk on Monday May 13, 2019 @11:12AM (#19900053)
from the description:

"Amazon.com works with manufacturers to box products in Certified Frustration-Free Packaging, which reduces the overall amount of packing materials used."

Also:

"It’s designed and tested to ship to customers in its own packaging without the need for additional Amazon packaging."

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by dewitt on Monday May 13, 2019 @10:02AM (#19899315)
I'm not an expert, but regarding your last question, I believe it's an industry-standard practice:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drop_shipping

And something that Amazon does as well. If you're a third-party seller:

https://sellercentral.amazon.com/gp/help/external/201808410

But this more-or-less hidden from the customer if Amazon is the seller.

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by masklinn on Monday May 13, 2019 @10:04AM (#19899340)
The article wouldn't apply to drop-shipping situation. Drop-shipping means the upstream provider delivers directly to the downstream consumer, but that means it never goes through Amazon's warehouse and is thus not packaged or re-packaged by Amazon.
Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by dewitt on Monday May 13, 2019 @10:14AM (#19899417)
Right. But the question the person above asked was "or do away with the warehouse altogether and have products ship directly from manufacturers."

Isn't that drop shipping?

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by smileysteve on Monday May 13, 2019 @12:28PM (#19900894)
> Why not just insist that all products be packaged in postal-compatible packaging?

Because Amazon saves significant money with fewer boxes.

Here are the savings

- Transportation Volume (no matter the vendor)

- Potential trips from warehouse to customer

- Package damage or loss

- Cost of packaging (they can charge their supply chain less OR make more margin if they can decrease this)

Even if Amazon uses their own delivery service.

Importantly, one of the major promotions they offer is delaying your 2 day guaranteed shipping until all items are ready to ship.

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by madengr on Monday May 13, 2019 @12:45PM (#19901077)
I think doing away with the warehouses isn’t compatible with conquering the last of retail; same day delivery. Even next day is cost prohibitive for drop shipping as it requires UPS or FedEx.

Amazon goal is same day delivery using low paid, Uber type contractors.

Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by hateful on Monday May 13, 2019 @01:08PM (#19901329)
I'm surprised they don't have reusable crates that they can pick up when they ship the next shipment to you - at least for subscribe & save orders. Like the milkman used to pick up the bottles.
Re:Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs by hef19898 on Monday May 13, 2019 @10:57AM (#19899880)
Dropshopping might just turn out to he the biggest missed opportunity for the fulfillment arm of Amazon. Just imagine a company that successfully bridges the gap between any supplier who wants to connect and the consumer using the internet. Imagine Amazon bought or developed Shopify themselves and integrated the POS tech for any shop with their fulfillment and retail tech. Damn, that would be a killer.

In my opinion, the first one to successfully do this on scale will be the next Amazon, just even bigger.

That being said, packaging for customer shipments is inherently different from B2B. The later usually uses some sort of bulk-level packaging for pallets and such. Cheaper for big volumes but unsuitable for B2C. Still, Amazon is pishing Ship-in-own-container (SIOC) wherever possible.

DISCLAIMER: I used to work there.