News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by fit2rule on Thursday May 02, 2019 @02:13AM (#19805208)
Certainly, the rationale for spending $21Trillion on military superiority instead of investing it in a healthy society, would be minimised.

If it turns out that aliens are on the planet and have advanced technology that could ruin us all, maybe the Pentagon and the Kremlin would find a reason to stop starving their own people for the sake of assumed dominance over the planet, and instead unite to either befriend, or defeat, the common alien friend/foe.

One can imagine the reason all of these events are couched in such secrecy might be, indeed, militaristic hubris. Or, in other words, FOMO at a grand scale ..

Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by emiliobumachar on Thursday May 02, 2019 @08:35AM (#19807169)
I don't know if faster-than-light travel would necessarily accompany other technologies indistinguishable from magic.

The Romans were arguably a flash of insight away from the hot air balloon, they had good uses for it and all the prerequisite techs. Analogously, we might be one really good flash of insight away from technology we'll just actually get a thousand years from now. So the aliens could be otherwise on our tech level, but they just figured out warp drive.

Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by DuskStar on Thursday May 02, 2019 @02:20PM (#19810890)
Who says that warp drive even requires most of the things in our tech tree? I'm reminded of Turtledove's "The Road Not Taken" here: https://eyeofmidas.com/scifi/Turtledove_RoadNotTaken.pdf
Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by emiliobumachar on Thursday May 02, 2019 @03:38PM (#19811844)
+1, what a brilliant piece of fiction, thanks!
Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by jacobush on Thursday May 02, 2019 @10:15AM (#19808098)
Very interesting thought. Imagine optical telegraph relay stations, or scouting with moored hot air balloons. Nothing could probably shoot them down, either.
Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by p1esk on Thursday May 02, 2019 @02:29AM (#19805277)
The need to “defend from aliens” would become the rationale to spend $60T. Oh, and after the money is gone it would turn out there are no aliens after all. Similar to what happened in Iraq.
Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by brtknr on Thursday May 02, 2019 @04:58AM (#19805990)
I am amused by the idea of "infidels" from space.
Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by pmontra on Thursday May 02, 2019 @08:08AM (#19806961)
Poul Anderson's The Word to Space is a 1960 novelette about missionarism from an alien planet.
Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by krageon on Thursday May 02, 2019 @02:25AM (#19805251)
You can just as easily argue the opposite. If the aliens are so much more advanced, maybe we need to spend even more in order to catch up.

I'm not saying I think these things, I'm just trying to point out that your conclusion is not a given.

Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by close04 on Thursday May 02, 2019 @04:41AM (#19805902)
If intelligent aliens get to our planet and have any kind of aggressive intentions no amount of spending would save us. It means they already have capabilities far beyond what we could achieve in a generation and proved them by just getting to us.
Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by krageon on Thursday May 02, 2019 @05:27AM (#19806109)
> It means they already have capabilities far beyond what we could achieve

It certainly means that they have those capabilities as pertains to travel, but it is not a given that they would have those capabilities in a military sense. Of course the argument can be made that you can convert that kind of power into a weapon, but I'd hazard to say that a haphazard conversion does not in fact impart upon you a godlike ability to ignore everything we could possibly do.

I'm definitely not arguing that this means we should increase military spending. I think that is fundamentally not a great idea for us in the first place. Instead, I am arguing that while the things you are talking about are widely used as sci-fi tropes and held as beliefs by a lot of people, I do not think they stand on their own merits.

Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by mrob on Thursday May 02, 2019 @05:55AM (#19806229)
The most deadly terrorist attack on the US used civilian passenger planes. A UFO doesn't need weapons to be massively destructive. E = 0.5 * m * v^2, and UFOs reportedly go a lot faster than a 767. And if they're too agile to shoot down, and never need to land or refuel, that's "a godlike ability to ignore everything we could possibly do".
Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by homonculus1 on Thursday May 02, 2019 @08:31AM (#19807142)
If you can project an object to another planet in any reasonable span of time, you already have vast military capabilities against that planet. All you have to do is not decelerate.
Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by sergioj97 on Saturday May 04, 2019 @07:08PM (#19829952)
No reason to believe the UFOs reached the Earth in a "reasonable" amount of time, though. There are many other interesting possibilities.
Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by exoesquitur on Thursday May 02, 2019 @09:46PM (#19814780)
Logistics.

A well equipped squad of marines would still eventually succumb to a gird of barbarians unless they could resupply.

Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by close04 on Friday May 03, 2019 @05:24AM (#19816801)
I think the magnitude of the difference between the opposing parties is a lot greater when it comes to comparing humans to an alien civilization capable of projecting some force light years away from their home in a reasonable amount of time.

It's more like neolithic man meets nuclear submarine... but worse. We have 0 tools at our disposal to fight anything that's farther away than the edge of the atmosphere. "They" can take a few decades to accelerate a really massive "civilization ending" object and slam it into us. It's not like we can go anywhere to avoid it.

Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by sergioj97 on Saturday May 04, 2019 @07:15PM (#19829983)
Why do you assume these UFOs reached the Earth in a "reasonable" amount of time? The possibility that they were roaming the space for hundreds or even thousands of years before reaching our planet is as reasonable as any other.

Even if an alien civilization finds our planet, I don't see why that would imply we are inside their logistic operational range.

Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by mrob on Thursday May 02, 2019 @02:33AM (#19805295)
If they're real, and if they have their claimed technology level, why do they only reveal themselves in such a bizarre way? The argument that it's to gradually condition humanity into accepting extraterrestrial life is implausible, because there has been no significant change in their alleged activities for many decades. Why wouldn't they instead plant microbes on Mars, or something like that? They could gradually increase the surprise level until they can reveal themselves openly.

Assuming they are real, the aliens do not act in a way consistent with a goal-directed intelligence, which means they are not the product of evolution, which means they are something so strange that the idea of befriending or defeating them makes no sense. They're something more like this story: https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/21/universal-love-said-th...

Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by pfisch on Thursday May 02, 2019 @06:55AM (#19806527)
They could just be making observations and taking measurements. Maybe they don't want to interfere and are more interested in studying our development.

Or maybe they are scouts that were sent all over the cosmos for the purpose of exploration and they will report back their findings to their home eventually.

There are plenty of rational explanations for their behavior, especially if we are extremely far behind them in our technological development.

Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by narag on Thursday May 02, 2019 @05:38AM (#19806167)
If they're real, and if they have their claimed technology level, why do they only reveal themselves in such a bizarre way?

They only have a tiny poorly manned outpost?

Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by mcphage on Thursday May 02, 2019 @10:18AM (#19808124)
> Assuming they are real, the aliens do not act in a way consistent with a goal-directed intelligence

Are you sure you know what their goals would be?

Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by behnamoh on Thursday May 02, 2019 @04:47AM (#19805934)
You make valid points. For a long time I was looking for such answers. Unfortunately, there aren't many clever arguments like yours anywhere outside of HN.

>> Assuming they are real, the aliens do not act in a way consistent with a goal-directed intelligence, which means they are not the product of evolution, which means they are something so strange that the idea of befriending or defeating them makes no sense.

This. If - and that's a big if - we assume previous bizarre aerial activities observed by humans were in fact of ET origin, then it's only natural to think of those ETs more like AI (robots) that don't necessarily share our goal-oriented intelligence, but rather possess higher levels of intelligence and their own agenda. As a result, you're right; we wouldn't even begin to understand their purpose cause theirs just has no counterpart in humans.

Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by MockObject on Thursday May 02, 2019 @02:51PM (#19811240)
Even humans don't always behave in clearly goal-oriented activities. Consider how hard it is to explain practical jokes, religious ritual, or modern performance art. ET intelligence would presumably have equally inscrutable motivations.

Given the distances and ages required for interstellar travel, these things are more likely unmanned probes than busses filled with tourists.

> It has been theorized that a self-replicating starship utilizing relatively conventional theoretical methods of interstellar travel (i.e., no exotic faster-than-light propulsion, and speeds limited to an "average cruising speed" of 0.1c.) could spread throughout a galaxy the size of the Milky Way in as little as half a million years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-replicating_spacecraft

Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by hallihax on Friday May 03, 2019 @08:19AM (#19817710)
You're assuming that an alien race isn't partisan. Any intelligent alien species intent on harming humans would probably seek to exploit existing weaknesses and increase division. Who's to say they wouldn't ally with the worst humans imaginable in order to prevent humanity coming together in the first place?
Re:UFOs invading military airspace multiple times a month, b... by oldjokes on Thursday May 02, 2019 @10:36AM (#19808324)
So we're using an imaginary alien threat to justify massive military spending while literally destroying billions of dollars by just eliminating it from the economy through stock buybacks.

Fictional times indeed. Just don't think too hard about the money.