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Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by hprotagonist on Friday April 26, 2019 @09:21AM (#19757126)
Not that this is a good solution, but it is a semi-practical countermeasure: mashing the power button 5 times on an iPhone disables all biometrics immediately, starts an audible siren countdown, and calls 911 if not dismissed. Holding power + volume up for a few seconds disables biometrics silently. I long ago enabled the "10 failed logins in a row deletes the phone" toggle.

edit: There are two ways to disable biometrics for post-iPhoneX models, which are described above. Pre iPhoneX, there is no panic-mode-with-a-siren, but 5 clicks of the power button will disable biometrics.

I routinely do this before i go through the TSA complimentary-preflight-massage line, when i'm within about 50 miles of the mexico border, and whenever i'm pulled over at a traffic stop.

and i'm not even doing anything particularly interesting.

At least this case involved An Actual Warrant. It's not the best, but it's a whole lot better than the no-warrant scenario.

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by basseq on Friday April 26, 2019 @09:59AM (#19757527)
> holding power + volume up for a few seconds disables biometrics silently

I didn't know about this great shortcut until today. Note that it isn't particularly "silent", as it displays an "Emergency SOS" slider that, when canceled, prompts you for your password.

Apparently, saying "Hey Siri, whose phone is this?" will disable biometrics as well.

Finally, you may be interested in the "Police" shortcut[1], which sends a text to a contact, starts recording voice and video, and saves it to the cloud.

[1] https://www.icloud.com/shortcuts/2d68cb1ee7b84f08ace2fd600b9...

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by klodolph on Friday April 26, 2019 @11:18AM (#19758396)
> Apparently, saying "Hey Siri, whose phone is this?" will disable biometrics as well.

This does not work on 7+, at least. Nor does holding side button + volume up. Pressing the side button 5 times will bring up the emergency screen (just press "cancel" when it shows up) and disable biometrics.

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by basseq on Friday April 26, 2019 @03:43PM (#19761111)
Confirmed both the Hey Siri and Power+Volume tricks do work on an iPhone 8-Plus running iOS 12.2. Wonder if it doesn’t work on older phones, but surprised it’s not tied to iOS version.
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by m463 on Sunday April 28, 2019 @09:10PM (#19775033)
also works on 8+ and ios 11
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by iheartpotatoes on Friday April 26, 2019 @01:19PM (#19759760)
Thanks! I have a 7p and noticed those didn't work. The 5-click method is easy to remember.
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by Crosseye_Jack on Friday April 26, 2019 @05:53PM (#19762099)
For me the Siri trick only works if the phone is already locked.
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by hprotagonist on Friday April 26, 2019 @10:19AM (#19757762)
it's audibly silent -- on post-iPhoneX models, clicking power 5 times will emit a siren tone and then autodial 911 in addition to locking out biometrics.

power + volumeup displays on the screen but does not emit a noise.

I think the police shortcut got nerfed with 12.2, but I'm not sure.

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by rhinoceraptor on Friday April 26, 2019 @12:42PM (#19759368)
Clicking the power 5 times also gives me a heart attack when I do it accidentally when I'm trying to turn up my podcast.
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by basseq on Friday April 26, 2019 @10:28AM (#19757849)
Good clarification, thanks.

I can't find any immediate results on the Police shortcut no longer working—almost every reference is from Q3 2018.

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by athenot on Friday April 26, 2019 @09:43AM (#19757355)
> I long ago enabled the "10 failed logins in a row deletes the phone" toggle.

Unfortunately this is not adviseable if you have small children. A relative of mine saw her phone get wiped after letting my toddler fiddle with it for a few minutes.

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by RandallBrown on Friday April 26, 2019 @09:49AM (#19757411)
This happened to a coworker of mine once. The feature was turned on by our IT department after he set up his work email on the device so he didn't really know about it.

He came to work one day pretty upset about Apple's "Delete your iPad when your kid plays with it" feature.

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by mieseratte on Friday April 26, 2019 @10:23AM (#19757812)
> The feature was turned on by our IT department after he set up his work email on the device so he didn't really know about it.

Perhaps don't let children fiddle with your work devices? That just sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by athenot on Friday April 26, 2019 @10:40AM (#19757998)
I have a strict policy to not let my kids play with phones. (Books and toys are plenty fine.) And I don't let my phone hang around and used as a passive toy (in locked mode) either. Yet more than once my phone has been "found" and the max password attempt has been triggered. It happens really easily despite my efforts.

Now in the grand scheme of things, this is just an annoyance as I can restore the phone from up-to-date backups. If someone is concerned enough, they could also toggle the wipe feature on/off based on their travels and live with the risk of an accidental wipe knowing that things can be restored.

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by dontbenebby on Friday April 26, 2019 @01:14PM (#19759709)
On the iPhone, 2fa codes must be set up again manually using recovery codes - can't be restored from backup. Huge pain in the butt IMHO
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by derekp7 on Friday April 26, 2019 @11:58AM (#19758889)
This can happen from carrying it in your pocket. Moisture (sweat) from your leg can cause random inputs on the touch screen.
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by xvector on Friday April 26, 2019 @12:25PM (#19759186)
Solution is to put the phone in your pocket facing outwards. Also prevents turning on the camera or flashlight with your leg.
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by mathgeek on Friday April 26, 2019 @10:40AM (#19757996)
Sounds like it was a personal device that had access to work email. That's a whole other issue that I wish had a better option than "adding your work accounts lets anyone using the phone see them."
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by hprotagonist on Friday April 26, 2019 @10:19AM (#19757769)
Considering the exponential growth of mandatory lockout timers between repeated failed attempts, i'm not super worried.
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by leejoramo on Friday April 26, 2019 @10:53AM (#19758136)
Correct. I think it takes something like a total of 4 hours of failed password logins to trigger a wiped phone. That is a long time to be worried about your kids playing with the phone.

Once the phone is wiped you can restore the phone from backup. If you allow kids to play unsupervised with a phone for 4 hours, I hope you have it backed up for a variety of other worse case scenarios.

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by SlowRobotAhead on Friday April 26, 2019 @12:15PM (#19759094)
>A relative of mine saw her phone get wiped after letting my toddler fiddle with it for a few minutes.

Yea... You might want to check that story. It's a staged timeout. First 1 minute, then 5, then 10, then an hour, then 3 hours or something like that.

Not that a toddler wasn't playing with the phone for 4 hours straight - just that if you let that happen you should expect a broken phone.

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by overcast on Friday April 26, 2019 @10:38AM (#19757977)
Sure it is, and that's why you have proper backups. iCloud is stupid simple to setup, and forget about until needed.
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by alfalfasprout on Friday April 26, 2019 @06:47PM (#19762424)
Law enforcement can also subpoena Apple for your iCloud data. It's hosted using a key that they control.
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by overcast on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @09:45AM (#19787853)
This is about their kid accidentally deleting their phone.
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by gmiller123456 on Friday April 26, 2019 @01:21PM (#19759781)
>mashing the power button 5 times on an iPhone disables all biometrics immediately, starts an audible siren countdown, and calls 911 if not dismissed

While you could do this before the police took position of the phone, it's important to point out that making any changes to the phone after it's in their possession, without permission, would be considered tampering with evidence.

So, disabling biometrics before going through TSA is probably OK. But mashing your finger five times on the power button when the police told you to unlock it will most likely result in some criminal charges.

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by jrockway on Friday April 26, 2019 @01:44PM (#19760039)
> considered tampering with evidence

You have to weigh the consequences. Let's say your phone has incontrovertible proof that you murdered someone, and you live in a state with the death penalty. The few years of prison you get for tampering with evidence is better than being executed, right? So it's still good to know.

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by breakpointalpha on Friday April 26, 2019 @03:26PM (#19760988)
A better example would be traveling through a country known to execute people for their sexual orientation.

I'm only thinking ethically, it's better to use technology to protect people from prosecution for victimless "crimes" than to support murder. ;)

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by jstarfish on Friday April 26, 2019 @05:42PM (#19762018)
> While you could do this before the police took position of the phone, it's important to point out that making any changes to the phone after it's in their possession, without permission, would be considered tampering with evidence.

It's obstruction either way.

Competent departments know to store the phone in a Faraday bag to prevent this, so it's not always an option in the first place.

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by kolla on Friday April 26, 2019 @10:18AM (#19757746)
The mashing of the power button works but the "power + volume up" only gives me the option to turn of the phone. It does not do anything for biometrics. iPhone 7.
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by hprotagonist on Friday April 26, 2019 @10:20AM (#19757785)
ah, yes. there's a model-specific change in button sequence. i'll edit my comment above.
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by oasisbob on Friday April 26, 2019 @12:18PM (#19759130)
It works for me on the XR, brings up the sliders for power off, etc and Face ID is disabled.
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by sh-run on Friday April 26, 2019 @10:18AM (#19757747)
On the iPhone Xr power + volume down brings you to the emergency call screen and disables faceID. Technically either volume button works, but if the phone is awake power + volume up just takes a screenshot. On my Xr with apple pay enabled mashing the power button 5 times just brings up apple pay, puts the phone to sleep and then wakes it back up.

I'm not sure if it's the same on other iPhone X models.

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by hprotagonist on Friday April 26, 2019 @10:26AM (#19757837)

  Settings>Emergency SOS
has the relevant things to fiddle with, i think.
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by ZebZ on Friday April 26, 2019 @01:30PM (#19759882)
Similarly, rebooting an Android will disable the fingerprint unlock. The first time you log in after a reboot, it requires you to enter your pin.
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by nichos on Friday April 26, 2019 @04:24PM (#19761418)
If you have a newer version of android (oreo I think? Not sure, I have a pixel), you can enable "lockdown" Lockdown brings up a menu when you press and hold the power button to disable the fingerprint reader for the next unlock. It's not on by default, you have to turn it on in the settings.
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by jayess on Friday April 26, 2019 @11:43AM (#19758688)
Anything similar in Android?
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by gregstoll on Friday April 26, 2019 @11:58AM (#19758876)
Yes - with Android Pie and above you can add a "Lockdown" option to your Restart/Shutdown menu, see https://android.gadgethacks.com/how-to/quickly-disable-finge...

You can also just restart the phone - at least on mine you can't login for the first time after a restart with a fingerprint.

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by Stephen304 on Friday April 26, 2019 @11:48AM (#19758747)
What I do on my Pixel 2 is use the wrong finger 5 times to force passcode / pattern entry, though I'm not sure if it resets after a certain amount of time or forces the next unlock to be passcode / pattern. Still might be useful in a pinch or if being coerced to unlock the phone under duress.
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by joshstrange on Friday April 26, 2019 @09:52AM (#19757453)
Also saying "Hey Siri, who am I?" will do it as long as you have a contact for yourself (see comments [0])

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18212978

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by hprotagonist on Friday April 26, 2019 @10:20AM (#19757774)
Nice find!

Given my nick, I think i should rebind that to "do you have any relatives in afghanistan?"

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by maximilianroos on Friday April 26, 2019 @12:48PM (#19759430)
> I routinely do this before i go through the TSA complimentary-preflight-massage line, when i'm within about 50 miles of the mexico border, and whenever i'm pulled over at a traffic stop.

These are all unnecessary, to various degrees. Compelling your fingerprint requires a warrant, which officers had in the linked case. The controversy is whether a search warrant of a property extends to compelling a fingerprint, not whether officers can go searching phones with abandon.

Specifically: - TSA officers aren't police officers. They can search you because you're entering an airport, but you're free to leave at any time (though they can detain you until police arrive, as any citizen can). - Within 100 miles of the border (not only the Mexican) officers can detain people momentarily or search vehicles to ascertain their citizenship. That's the only additional power they have, they can't search your phone (or even search your glove compartment) without probable cause. - When you're pulled over for a traffic stop, a search requires probable cause.

You didn't mention the one time you might think about doing this: going through customs, where your 4A rights are weaker and less certain. If you're interested in learning more, US vs Cotterman is a good jumping-off point.

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by civility on Friday April 26, 2019 @01:06PM (#19759631)
> When you're pulled over for a traffic stop, a search requires probable cause.

That's the theory. In practice police can get away with pretty much anything, and if you make it to the point where a judge is listening to you, he/she won't be sympathetic.

You've seen the videos where the idiot cop didn't realize his camera was on and filmed himself placing drugs? This didn't just happen once.

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by maximilianroos on Friday April 26, 2019 @04:12PM (#19761346)
> if you make it to the point where a judge is listening to you, he/she won't be sympathetic

Do you have any evidence for this? Courts routinely suppress evidence.

> and filmed himself placing drugs?

I saw the video; it's bad and it's an injustice. No one was convicted of a crime in this case, though I suspect others likely plead guilty in similar circumstances given their incentives in our current system.

But why does that affects your decision to lock your phone? Are you worried police are going to illegally compel a fingerprint from you and then put something on your phone?

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by civility on Friday April 26, 2019 @05:50PM (#19762066)
> Do you have any evidence for this?

Of course I can't comment on all judges, but in my few interactions with them, the court sides with the police. Call it an anecdote if you want, but "citation needed" comments wear thin.

> But why does that affects your decision to lock your phone? Are you worried police are going to illegally compel a fingerprint from you and then put something on your phone?

I worry about every interaction with a police officer. They are the single biggest threat I ever run into.

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by spraak on Friday April 26, 2019 @12:59PM (#19759570)
> These are all unnecessary, to various degrees.

Even limiting your search to HN there is a plethora of examples of situations that OP describes where phones and devices have been invaded

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by maximilianroos on Friday April 26, 2019 @04:05PM (#19761301)
Police routinely violate 4A rights.

But we have a court system that suppresses evidence that's gained from those violations, or any evidence that's found from information gained in those violations.

Do you have examples where courts have allowed that evidence to be used against people?

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by hprotagonist on Friday April 26, 2019 @12:50PM (#19759466)
I power my devices off completely when CBP gets involved.
Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by bitdeveloper on Friday April 26, 2019 @01:07PM (#19759637)
> They can search you because you're entering an airport, but you're free to leave at any time (though they can detain you until police arrive, as any citizen can).

If they can detain you then how are you free to leave?

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by maximilianroos on Friday April 26, 2019 @04:02PM (#19761279)
> they can detain you until police arrive, as any citizen can

They have the same rights an any other citizen to detain you and call a police officer.

Citizen detention laws vary by state, but generally there's a fairly high standard of probability that you committed a crime.

https://www.tsa.gov/blog/2016/07/03/tsa-myth-busters-do-tsa-...

Re:Cops can force your finger onto an iPhone to see if it un... by Retra on Friday April 26, 2019 @01:22PM (#19759788)
You are free to leave until they detain you.