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Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by cameronh90 on Monday March 18, 2019 @11:29AM (#19421877)
People may confuse believing in the scientific method for believing in the current scientific consensus, which as you point out is fluid.

However, for the average person, a dogmatic belief in the scientific method would be a huge step up over religion.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by Erlich_Bachman on Monday March 18, 2019 @11:47AM (#19422072)
A dogmatic belief in anything is detrimental. It takes wisdom to understand this. Many followers of science lack this. Scientific method is a great tool - for the type of questions that it is designed to deal with - and a disaster waiting to happen if used for other areas of inquiry.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by devoply on Monday March 18, 2019 @11:51AM (#19422108)
Except wisdom in large complex systems is impossible. Like for instance take any piece of technology you are going to introduce into the system. How can anyone be wise about how that technology will effect the system before hand? After the fact how can you get rid of the technology when millions or people depend on it for their existence?

The same is true of pure knowledge. You introduce a new paradigm. You don't know how it will effect all the other knowledge that depends on it. Once it's adopted careers of many scientists depend on it... it's only after those scientists die and a new paradigm is found that the next generation can build its career on that old knowledge dies.

None of this is due to wisdom. It's just the way the political economy works. Wisdom only applies to individual action about things that have a small enough scope to have some idea about their impact on decisions. For anything bigger than that, it's political... and I highly doubt the crowds have wisdom especially about untested things.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by stdbrouw on Monday March 18, 2019 @12:23PM (#19422471)
> Scientific method is a great tool - for the type of questions that it is designed to deal with - and a disaster waiting to happen if used for other areas of inquiry.

What other areas of inquiry would that be?

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by maire on Monday March 18, 2019 @04:29PM (#19424922)
A really good book to read on this is "the Signal and the Noise" by Nate Silver. Basically, the scientific method requires modeling the system correctly which only works for certain kinds of systems. Systems where the complexity exceeds the available data causes people to see patterns where they don't exist and to be overly confident in their interpretation of the data.

The entire area of nutrition and weight management is a joke. Medicine is problematic and Psychology is questionable.

Another problem is that the popular media publishes inconclusive studies because they are click bait. People read them because they are interested in living longer and losing weight and being happy.

Fear also turns studies into clickbait. The latest was the blizzard of articles on if bugs are dying off or not.

Then there is the fact that negative studies tend to be ignored and when the study failed or it introduces data that does not conform to general knowledge.

All this makes people question studies where the data is conclusive.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by bsder on Monday March 18, 2019 @05:07PM (#19425322)
> The entire area of nutrition and weight management is a joke. Medicine is problematic and Psychology is questionable.

Note that the issue is that there is a human in that system.

The problem is that we (rightfully!) don't easily allow experiments on humans that might be harmful.

And, as an aside, nutrition and weight management does have people doing real science (things like studies of hunter gatherer societies with deuterated water), it's just that the results aren't very flashy (ie. a human burns roughly the same amount of calories regardless of activity level--so the only way to lose weight is to eat less--moving more is healthy but doesn't contribute substantially to weight loss).

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by maire on Monday March 18, 2019 @08:02PM (#19426648)
Scientists are trying to study nutrition, it is just that the data is inconclusive. Yet the popular media reports each conflicting study as fact.

Here is an interesting Stanford Medicine study of individual variation on the impact on low carb vs low fat. The punchline is that they still don't know after a fairly rigorous study.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SBZ4HYOxf0

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by vharuck on Monday March 18, 2019 @03:07PM (#19424083)
What we value. The scientific method can be used to make better paints, but we decide what styles of art we prefer.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by pfortuny on Monday March 18, 2019 @03:24PM (#19424265)
Raising your children, talking to strangers, charity, you name it.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by benj111 on Monday March 18, 2019 @04:36PM (#19425011)
Do you mean you shouldn't raise your kids based on science? You shouldn't experiment to see what works with your child, or you just shouldn't do experiments on your child?
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by Erlich_Bachman on Monday March 18, 2019 @05:37PM (#19425584)
Children need love, compassion and a lot of patience. They want to be treated like living beings, not like science projects. Yes science in general can obviously make some generic guidelines or provide some good insights in very specific questions of this childraising enterprise, but the vast majority of choices and everyday actions will fall outside of this.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by benj111 on Monday March 18, 2019 @05:53PM (#19425712)
"and a lot of patience"

I find the distance, that analysing behaviour brings, actually helps with the patience, and compassion (if they're having a weird tantrum because they wanted something trivial). I also think it keeps me motivated in consciously raising my kids, rather than just passively whiling away the years.

Maybe I have younger kids, so there aren't really any philosophical issues being raised.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by featherrust on Monday March 18, 2019 @01:02PM (#19422834)
Interpersonal relationships?
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by igor47 on Monday March 18, 2019 @02:07PM (#19423460)
I'm a fan of NVC(non-violent communication) and that framework could be summarized by the sentence, "when you do X,I feel Y". You basically become an instrument that reports on your internal state, plus you're also supposed to avoid assuming anything about the other person's internal state.

This is a lot more like science then the usual default of blaming and assumptions and implicit expectations that most people conduct their relationships in.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by groovy2shoes on Monday March 18, 2019 @05:35PM (#19425562)
When you talk like that, I feel as though I am talking to the emacs psychotherapist. It too is a mere instrument that reports on its internal state.

If you have found it a useful communicative tool, then I am glad for you. No doubt communication can be hard, so we've gotta use whatever tools we find effective. But honestly when I try speaking like that, I can't help but feel like a robot or a program. It feels very unnatural and very awkward to me. Perhaps that distance is exactly what lends it efficacy for some people, but that very distance only lends it offputticacy for me.

Am I right and you wrong? No, I don't think so. I have no reason to doubt that you have found success with such an approach. But were I a barkeep and you a patron responding like that when asked "why the long face?", you'd be getting a double of tequila on the house. (Tequila has a funny way of bringing out one's inner party, in my experience—or getting one started where there's yet only a quiet inner evening get-together).

https://i.imgur.com/ShGZjQ6.png

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by TimTheTinker on Monday March 18, 2019 @05:58PM (#19425758)
> "when you do X,I feel Y"

Communication like that can be very helpful when dealing with personal conflict -- marriage, friendships, etc., but I can't see how that would help in the public sphere.

If a political opponent, writer, or public speaker were to say or write something like that, it would be irritating and off-putting. I'd think "OK, but what's your point?"

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by TimTheTinker on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @06:20AM (#19429523)
To clarify, if a Senator stood up on the floor and began: “Mr President, when my honorable colleague argues in favor of [some policy], I feel shamed, belittled, and angry.”

... That would be inappropriate, unhelpful, and unproductive. It would be better to engage with the opponent’s argument with another argument than to resort to talking about personal feelings in that context.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by justtopost on Monday March 18, 2019 @04:13PM (#19424739)
I find that type of communication childing and dehumanizing. To each their own.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by cobbzilla on Monday March 18, 2019 @04:36PM (#19425013)
Kinda ironic that your comment is a good example of this style, in describing your feelings using an “I” statement without attacking the speaker.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by synecdoche on Monday March 18, 2019 @05:01PM (#19425251)
I would contend that despite the "I" the form of those words implies projection, or at least victimization of oneself.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by tunesmith on Monday March 18, 2019 @05:51PM (#19425700)
If it were limited to "when you do blah, I feel blah" verbiage, it would feel like that. But it's more generally about taking accountability for one's own side, while listening to the other side, without needless escalation. I can't really see a flaw with that approach, other than it taking more work.

I wonder how many arguments would be defused if both sides could phrase the other side's point of view in a way they would agree was accurately stated.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by benj111 on Monday March 18, 2019 @04:43PM (#19425077)
Really? I do a similar thing when dealing with idiots (not idiots, fully formed human beings, with a legitimate point of view, probably not evil, probably quite normal in person) on the internet.

I find it helps keep me sane.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by mensetmanusman on Monday March 18, 2019 @08:27PM (#19426831)
What the Germans did during WW2: which race is better, etc., etc.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by 50656E6973 on Monday March 18, 2019 @06:39PM (#19426077)
Social and political science.

Psychiatrists paved the way for the Holocaust:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23511221

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by sqrt17 on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @10:45AM (#19431244)
> Scientific method is a great tool - for the type of questions that it is designed to deal with - and a disaster waiting to happen if used for other areas of inquiry. ... which is why the actual sciences (and other research disciplines) use methods that have more of a family resemblance to the prototypic scientific method than being point-for-point identical with it.

Many common points exist - showing your reasoning and evidence rather than to appeal to authority, and the idea that hypotheses should be falsifialbe (in the sense of Thomas Kuhn) to be central ideas. Both of these very good idea in all situations in which you're actually interested in the truth, rather than having a shoot-first-ask-questions-later situation where you need to act on imperfect information.

There's no disaster waiting to happen, at least not in comparison to other tools of reasoning being misused. Sophism (i.e. people playing mind games to make their claims look better) exists inside and outside of science, just as self-interest and wanting to increase your own sphere of influence do, but that's no fault of the scientific method (any more than it is a fault of religion when it occurs there). Any system that lends credibility and authority to people will (loosely mis-citing Bourdieu) attract power-mongery.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by cameronh90 on Monday March 18, 2019 @07:27PM (#19426395)
I agree. However, most people are not philosophers, and are going to essentially pick a dogma. I think it's better that is the scientific method.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by war1025 on Monday March 18, 2019 @11:35AM (#19421937)
That wouldn't be a step up over religion, that would just be religion.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by sremani on Monday March 18, 2019 @11:40AM (#19421991)
There is a word for it, "Scientism"
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by dymk on Monday March 18, 2019 @11:37AM (#19421961)
Religion and science derive understanding about the world in fundamentaly different and incompatible ways. To call it religion is just incorrect.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by dnautics on Monday March 18, 2019 @11:50AM (#19422093)
As a scientist here's my take: 1) in the ultimate abstraction, science is a religion. It depends on the precept that the rules are more or less or measurably the same from today to yesterday to tomorrow. You can't bootstrap empiricism without begging the question, so, there is at least one item of faith at the core.

2) excepting this, science in the ideal is indeed a wholly different beast. So you could say it is this the weakest form of religion, or, at least, the religion with the fewest dependencies.

3) in practice, the edifice of science is quite full of people who are hypocritical and flagrantly breaking the rules which you expect would be necessary to maintain the high standard that marks the difference between religion and science. These violations are often swept under the rug quietly and even when they get really big the organization is incredibly good at closing its ranks. I'd say there are a lot of parallels between the science industrial complex and, highly organized religions (such as megachurches and hierarchical institutions like the Southern Baptist or Catholic Church) than most people who see science as a source of power ought to be comfortable with.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by nf05papsjfVbc on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @08:50AM (#19430237)
While I detest the notion of science being religion, often I too have thought about your first point (thus I did make it a point to vote your comment up in the hope that more people will see it). Ultimately science does rely on one core aspect of things being taken on faith: that what we observe today will also be so tomorrow. It is in theory possible that everything is random and it's just a coincidence that all the laws of nature that man has come up with seem to hold up so far. At any moment, the universe could go haywire and perhaps we were wrong all this time and it's just random? This is possible of course but not a useful model for man in his attempt to understand the world.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by mfoy_ on Monday March 18, 2019 @12:56PM (#19422791)
Yup, academia is outrageously political.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @03:27AM (#19428784)
> 1) in the ultimate abstraction, science is a religion. It depends on the precept that the rules are more or less or measurably the same from today to yesterday to tomorrow. You can't bootstrap empiricism without begging the question, so, there is at least one item of faith at the core.

That's actually wrong, albeit widely believed. In a purely random world with no patterns that could possibly be discovered, empiricism still gives you the optimal result. The only difference between such a world and a world with patterns is that in a purely random world, any other method would also give you the optimal result, because no method has any predictive power. Empiricism gives you optimal results no matter whether the world has patterns or not, in contrast to all other methods, which only give you optimal results if the world has no patterns. So, if you want to have optimal results, empiricism is the way to go, there are no alternatives unless you already know that you are in an unpredictable world.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by war1025 on Monday March 18, 2019 @11:50AM (#19422089)
Science is just systematic problem solving. It is a very unremarkable thing. When people build it up to something more than that, then it takes on aspects of religion.

A scientist doing science isn't religion. A non-scientist believing everything someone says "because science" is.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by diegoholiveira on Monday March 18, 2019 @12:49PM (#19422725)
> Religion and science derive understanding about the world in fundamentaly different and incompatible ways.

They are not incompatible, as the pope John Paul II states: Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by killaken2000 on Monday March 18, 2019 @01:36PM (#19423164)
An alternative idea is that the pope is only saying that so the science-minded folks don't leave.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by m_fayer on Monday March 18, 2019 @12:22PM (#19422454)
Fundamentally, I see religion as an enterprise that defines the structure of existence (metaphysics), explains how humans in their "base state" are deficient within that structure, to their detriment and that of others, and finally establishes elaborate practices for addressing the deficiency.

Perhaps you can find something analogous to this structure in psychology, but I just don't see it in the rest of the scientific landscape.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by AnimalMuppet on Monday March 18, 2019 @12:27PM (#19422508)
I could stretch it to say that climate science exactly 'defines the structure of existence (metaphysics), explains how humans in their "base state" are deficient within that structure, to their detriment and that of others, and finally establishes elaborate practices for addressing the deficiency' - except that the practices, so far, don't actually address the deficiency adequately.

I will agree that I don't see this structure elsewhere in science...

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by ConceptJunkie on Monday March 18, 2019 @12:46PM (#19422698)
Perhaps not, but I definitely see a lot of things analogous that in politics.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by phd514 on Monday March 18, 2019 @11:52AM (#19422128)
Thomas Kuhn would disagree.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by Symmetry on Monday March 18, 2019 @03:15PM (#19424181)
One thing I found very valuable in The Structure of Scientific Revolutions was a quick shortcut to telling if a field is doing "normal science" or not. If students are taught with textbooks distilling the field's important insights in a readable form then it probably is. The originator of an important idea is rarely the most skilled at expressing it to newcomers, but if your field can't tell if a rephrasing of an idea is still true or if it is more concerned with the prestige of the founders than the amassing of truth then it will tend to use original texts.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by war1025 on Monday March 18, 2019 @02:58PM (#19423998)
Really meaning to read "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" at some point. I had a philosophy professor in college who was all about that guy. Definitely shaped my worldview to some extent.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by x220 on Monday March 18, 2019 @11:42AM (#19422014)
You seem to think that "religion" means "blind adherence to something", which is really, really narrow. Is COBOL a religion?
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by war1025 on Monday March 18, 2019 @11:46AM (#19422058)
"dogmatic belief in the scientific method" is as much a religion as anything else. Particularly when you are talking about it as a precept for the general public.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @03:11AM (#19428713)
No, it's not a religion, it's simply a nonsense phrase. The scientific method at its core is the rejection of dogmatic belief, and thus you are talking about "dogmatic belief in the rejection of dogmatic belief", which is simply a sequence of words that doesn't have any meaning.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by thedaemon on Monday March 18, 2019 @03:44PM (#19424448)
Then the translation of "religion" is "faith".
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by mymythisisthis on Monday March 18, 2019 @05:40PM (#19425612)
That's how medieval scholasticsim was born. Originally logic, and the works of Greek philosophers were explored. Soon rules around logic became formalize, and a dogmatism set in.

Afterwards students were discouraged from original thought around logic and just forced to learn the following mnemoic

Barbara, Celarent, Darii, Ferioque prioris. Cesare, Camestres, Festino, Baroco secundae. Tertia Darapti, Disamis, Datisi, Felapton, Bocardo, Ferison habet. Quarta insuper addit Bramantip, Camenes, Dimaris, Fesapo, Fresison.

Scholasticism then went onto have terrible connotations as a scholarly system.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by cameronh90 on Monday March 18, 2019 @07:31PM (#19426429)
I think if you're studying science and logic, then you should definitely have a curiosity regarding the foundations of your field. But is that really something we can expect the general public to get involved in? It's a hugely mindbogglingly complex topic.

For the average person to look at the scientific method, conclude it (at least mostly) works and believe in the fundamentals of the process, I think, is a good thing.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by tathougies on Monday March 18, 2019 @04:32PM (#19424962)
> However, for the average person, a dogmatic belief in the scientific method would be a huge step up over religion.

But the scientific method is based on the idea of an unchanging God / reality. Without that fundamental belief, theres no point in determining how physics behaves in an experiment, because if everything happens at the whims of anthropomorphic gods, then there is no reason to expect the same experiment will produce similar results.

Thus, I don't really see the huge step up, especially given the inhumanity science has sometimes promulgated, and for which it frankly gets a free pass.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by WalterBright on Monday March 18, 2019 @04:50PM (#19425133)
The scientific method produces predictable, reproducible results, and other philosophies do not. Therefore, it's more useful.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by effie on Monday March 18, 2019 @07:33PM (#19426446)
Determinism is an idea of physics based on unchanging God/reality, but science is more general. Science can work without determinism, there are probabilistic / statistical methods, or hypotheses of effective physical laws changing in time. In quantum experiments, things happen at whims of nature and some such experiments do not produce similar results when repeated, but look random.
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by mensetmanusman on Monday March 18, 2019 @08:29PM (#19426852)
‘Randomness’ with perfectly defined statistics and distributions is fascinating...
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by madspindel on Monday March 18, 2019 @11:56AM (#19422166)
"The situation may be expressed by an image: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Written by Albert Einstein

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by vkazanov on Monday March 18, 2019 @03:59PM (#19424606)
Source, pls. Where and when did he say that?
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by madspindel on Monday March 18, 2019 @04:08PM (#19424691)
It's from the book Ideas And Opinions: https://www.amazon.com/Ideas-Opinions-Albert-Einstein-ebook/...

Some other quotes:

"The highest principles for our aspirations and judgments are given to us in the Jewish-Christian religious tradition."

"Though religion may be that which determines the goal, it has, nevertheless, learned from science, in the broadest sense, what means will contribute to the attainment of the goals it has set up. But science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling, however, springs from the sphere of religion."

"His religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection. This feeling is the guiding principle of his life and work, in so far as he succeeds in keeping himself from the shackles of selfish desire. It is beyond question closely akin to that which has possessed the religious geniuses of all ages."

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by jhbadger on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @08:01PM (#19437502)
The problem is that Einstein didn't mean "religion" to mean a belief in either a God or an afterlife, as most people assume. He just had a sense of wonder in regard to the natural world. So what? So does Richard Dawkins.

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." -- Albert Einstein, 1954, letter to Joseph Dispentiere.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by superqwert on Monday March 18, 2019 @12:22PM (#19422460)
Which scientific method?

Scientific methods differ a lot between the sciences - especially between the physical and special sciences, for example.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by callmekit on Monday March 18, 2019 @12:35PM (#19422589)
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by superqwert on Monday March 18, 2019 @12:49PM (#19422723)
Have you actually read the article?

"Some philosophers and scientists have argued that there is no scientific method; they include physicist Lee Smolin and philosopher Paul Feyerabend (in his Against Method)"

And even the previous paragraphs are not complete either. It says there:

"Scientists then test hypotheses by conducting experiments or studies. A scientific hypothesis must be falsifiable"

Which is not necessarily true - for example, many arguments against the theory of evolution question whether it is a falsifiable theory (which is not saying that it is not true, but if there is no way to falsify it, how can it be said it is a scientific theory?). Many fields within Biology also have no predictive, but only descriptive power.

Scientists who stick to a rigorous scientific method, such as seen in physics would have to reject most other branches of science. For a realist to accept scientific results in multiple fields, they have to use some philosophical reasons to accept the differing methods as valid ways of exploring reality.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by dragonwriter on Monday March 18, 2019 @12:55PM (#19422786)
> Which is not necessarily true - for example, many arguments against the theory of evolution question whether it is a falsifiable theory

The “theory of evolution” is a large composite explanatory story wrapped around a large number of testable (mostly thoroughly tested) hypotheses. It's falsifiable by falsifying any of the components, though the replacement is liable to look remarkably similar but for who the falsified piece is addressed, and still likely to be called the “theory of evolution” even though the content is different.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by superqwert on Monday March 18, 2019 @01:04PM (#19422862)
Of course, any number of subsets of the theory being disproved could falsify the super-set theory. But if there are two super-set theories, and you cannot falsify one over the other, then those collections are not falsifiable.

Some philosophers argue that all the subsets of evolution - genetics, mutations, natural selection could still support permanence of species with local changes. Until you can create an entirely new species in a laboratory without direct gene editing, there cannot be positive proof for evolution - but till that is done, there is no negative test that would disprove that evolution is the consequence of all its component hypotheses.

Personally, I don't see any reason to doubt evolution, considering it is neat and beautiful. But at the same time, I can see that it hasn't been built via the same scientific method seen in physics.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by dragonwriter on Monday March 18, 2019 @02:10PM (#19423492)
> Until you can create an entirely new species in a laboratory without direct gene editing, there cannot be positive proof for evolution

Being able to do that is no more positive proof of evolution than any of the more or practical tests. Also, speciation has been observed and created in controlled settings without direct gene editing (indeed, some before gene editing was even a thing), so if it was positive proof of evolution, we could mark that off as proven absolutely.

Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by killaken2000 on Monday March 18, 2019 @01:38PM (#19423183)
What is the scientific method used in physics
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by superqwert on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @07:53AM (#19429942)
Again, even this has variations - Einstein's method of arriving at SR and GR differed entirely from the way experimental physicists arrived at QM
Re:The rise and fall of scientific authority, and how to bri... by icelancer on Tuesday March 19, 2019 @01:43AM (#19428372)
> a dogmatic belief in the scientific method

This would be fine. But this is not what people mean when they say "science is real." They mean: "Believe what scientists say," and the definition of a scientist is... a person with a post-graduate degree that is popular on Facebook, probably, like Neil deGrasse Tyson.