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Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by Erlich_Bachman on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:20AM (#19245079)
Was your supplement dosage enough though? In the order of 10000 IU per day?

The problem with vitamin D was that up until about a year ago, official recommendations in many countries were mistakenly low (500-1000 IUs), which as it turned out, was not enough for many people. It was even hard to find proper pills that has high enough dosages, because when you got to your local farmacist which was going by the official recommendations, all they had were 200-500 IU pills, because they were not expecting that anyone would need more. So as an average citizen who does not do their research properly, if they just went into a farmacist and took the first Vitamin D supplement they saw, the chances were that they were getting one which had basically no effect.

When the dosage is right, many people experience positive effects and dormant Vitamin D levels really do go up. The sun is not required.

Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by Amygaz on Monday February 25, 2019 @08:34AM (#19245471)
The problem with Vit D3 supplement is that you don’t absorb most of it. It is well known, than the bioavailability of the supplements is not the same and that even the molecule itself is not the same as the one your organism produces.

Also, the science is starting to question the supplementation. It’s too early to tell, but one hypothesis is that it is a biomarker at the end of a pathway and not at the beginning of it, i.e. as a consequence of a proper diet and sunlight, and not a cause of a healthy system.

Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by neuronic on Monday February 25, 2019 @09:23AM (#19245763)
So the vitamin D might be there due to a healthy system instead of the system being healthy due to vitamin D.

An analogy would be the analysis of car exhaust, finding certain levels of CO2, and trying to fix cars with "bad exhaust" by throwing more CO2 into the intake (except maybe this would even have a negative effect by hindering combustion).

Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by blattimwind on Monday February 25, 2019 @11:05AM (#19246563)
> An analogy would be the analysis of car exhaust, finding certain levels of CO2, and trying to fix cars with "bad exhaust" by throwing more CO2 into the intake (except maybe this would even have a negative effect by hindering combustion).

This is an hilarious (and fitting) analogy for nutrition sciences.

Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by hopler on Monday February 25, 2019 @12:06PM (#19247137)
There was a classic TV ad by an oil company that said that CO2 is great because it is plant food. It's still an argument used by folks who oppose CO2 controls.
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by newscracker on Monday February 25, 2019 @10:10AM (#19246124)
> It is well known, than the bioavailability of the supplements is not the same and that even the molecule itself is not the same as the one your organism produces.

Reputed and trustworthy citations from scientific sources required, please.

Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by logfromblammo on Monday February 25, 2019 @10:47AM (#19246419)
Every cholecalciferol molecule is the same. This is chemistry. Chemicals that are not the same cannot have the same chemical name. Every animal (without a genetic defect specific to the precursor chemicals) produces the same 7-dehydrocholesterol molecules, and every 7-dehydrocholesterol will, under UVB light, convert to cholecalciferol.

Industrial production of vitamin D3 irradiates the 7-dehydrocholesterol extracted from sheep's lanolin with UVB light.

There is some question as to whether ergocalciferol--a chemical mainly found in fungi that produce ergosterol and have been exposed to UVB light--is biologically equivalent to cholecalciferol in humans. It can alleviate vitamin D deficiency symptoms, but it is not known with certainty whether it can produce a sufficiency. As far as I am aware, the known cases of hypervitaminosis D have resulted from ergocalciferol supplementation, rather than from cholecalciferol.

If you are supplementing with vitamin D3, the chemical you are consuming is identical to that produced in your skin under UVB irradiation. There is no evidence whatsoever that it is destroyed in or poorly absorbed by the human digestive system. If you swallow 15000 IU of vitamin D3, that is the equivalent of standing shirtless in temperate midday sun for 15 minutes, after which time you will achieve no further benefit until some time has been spent absorbing the cholecalciferol and replenishing the 7-dehydrocholesterol in your skin.

It is poorly known, that if you have to preface a statement with "it is well known", what follows is less likely to be "known" than "unattributably rumored".

Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by jimmy1 on Monday February 25, 2019 @10:26AM (#19246251)
No it’s not required. This is a discussion board not a thesis paper review board. Do your own googling. If he or she is wrong then call bullshit.
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by zadjii on Monday February 25, 2019 @11:31AM (#19246762)
IMO "Reputed and trustworthy citations from scientific sources required, please." is just a more elegant way of calling bullshit
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by hopler on Monday February 25, 2019 @12:06PM (#19247142)
It's an elegant way of covering noise with more noise.
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by kortilla on Monday February 25, 2019 @02:55PM (#19248819)
It is required. Just claiming something is well-known to counter someone’s suggestion without providing any evidence isn’t very productive.
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by jimmy1 on Wednesday February 27, 2019 @03:34PM (#19266683)
No other suggestion was offered in the post I am referring to, just a "sources pl0x" ask. Here is the simplest counter example I can think of.

"Gravity is real."

"Reputed and trustworthy citations from scientific sources required, please."

You can get less and less ridiculous from here ad nauseam, but the point is made.

Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by newscracker on Tuesday February 26, 2019 @07:39AM (#19253745)
"It is well known" is a weasel word, and hence requires more substantiation when asked. If one has to rely on Googling on these matters, one can find so many contradictory views. So I wanted to know what reputed sources the GP was relying on to use "It is well known" for that claim.
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by b_gen on Monday February 25, 2019 @03:06PM (#19248902)
how about just search hacker news? https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/11/10/6665455...

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/mar/09/is-vitamin-d...

And those studies saying otherwise have been backed by a lot of questionable money: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/18/business/vitamin-d-michae...

Oh by the way sunscreen is terrible, it doesn't have a proven link to reducing cancer and it destroys reefs so do yourself a favor and get more sun without all the slimy goop so you can feel better AND save the planet!

Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by slothtrop on Monday February 25, 2019 @11:35AM (#19246787)
Pairing K2, or consuming vegetables high in vitamin K, helps with this. Personally I both consume a supplement and use a SAD light.
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by dhimes on Monday February 25, 2019 @08:19AM (#19245373)
Do you have a source for the 10000 IU per day guideline? If that's D3, that's 25 times to "recommended" amount, well above what is considered safe for long-term use. Now, I realize that our understanding of these things are in a state of (often violent) flux, but I would like to know who's recommended such a high amount. The problem with Vitamin D is that it is fat-soluble, not water-soluble, so your body doesn't expel the excess very quickly and it builds up. Too much can be harmful, particularly to your bones and kidneys[1].

[1] https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h...

Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by lukeschlather on Monday February 25, 2019 @09:27AM (#19245801)
> well above what is considered safe for long-term use.

The Mayo clinic article says:

> Taking 60,000 international units (IU) a day of vitamin D for several months has been shown to cause toxicity.

So 10,000, while it's well above the "recommended" dosage, is nowhere near the toxic level. Although when I was looking around the toxic level was 20,000, still, I've seen no guidance regarding Vitamin D that suggests 10,000 IUs/day can be toxic. (Especially if your BMI is over 25, and you're not getting much sunlight.)

Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by logfromblammo on Monday February 25, 2019 @11:04AM (#19246555)
Mayo clinic article concerns excessive supplementation, isolated on vitamin D, specifically.

A hypothesis exists that increasing vitamin K consumption in proportion to the vitamin D, and restricting calcium intake, would eliminate the main symptoms of excessive vitamin D supplementation. Nonhuman animal experimentation confirms, but it has not been tested in humans (likely due to the obvious ethical concerns).

Vitamin D, vitamin K, and calcium are all related.

I have seen guidance specifically for vitamin D2 (ergocalciferol), indicating that adverse symptoms may be observed at lower levels of supplementation than for vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol), but it was quite some time ago, and I don't know if the claim was confirmed or refuted scientifically.

Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by koheripbal on Monday February 25, 2019 @02:22PM (#19248524)
Remember that 60,000 was chosen so that toxicity could be very reliably demonstrated. It does not mean that lower doses are not also toxic.
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by learc83 on Monday February 25, 2019 @11:08AM (#19246587)
I'm always worried about how easy it would be for manufacturers to accidentally put more in a pill than the label says.

10,000 IU is only 1.25 mg, and vitamins aren't well regulated. It's not like you'd notice if your supplement contained 100,000 IU.

Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by gnulinux on Monday February 25, 2019 @12:27PM (#19247377)
That happens all the time. Please check https://labdoor.com/ before buying any unregulated drug.
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by dhimes on Monday February 25, 2019 @02:57PM (#19248842)
Oh dammit! I wish I had seen this before I went to the drug store...
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by Johnny555 on Monday February 25, 2019 @11:17AM (#19246643)
USP and other certifications are supposed to address this, but the onus is on the consumer to seek out the certification label.

http://www.usp.org/verification-services/verified-mark

Others include NSF, UL, and consumerlab

https://www.consumerreports.org/vitamins-supplements/what-us...

There's still the chance that a manufacturing mistake could result in bad dosage but that applies to all products including medicine.

Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by learc83 on Monday February 25, 2019 @02:37PM (#19248659)
Vitamin D is particularly worrisome to me because a few milligrams is the difference between therapeutic and toxic.
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by olau on Monday February 25, 2019 @11:51AM (#19246935)
... and in fact it has happened. With drops for infants that had a 75 times too high concentration:

http://cphpost.dk/news/danish-health-authority-warns-of-toxi...

Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by kolbe on Monday February 25, 2019 @03:54PM (#19249357)
I know you have faith that taking large doses of vitamin d isn't dangerous, but there is very little evidence supporting its value. We all have to make serious decisions every day without scientific support, so I don't begrudge you the right to do what you believe is best for you. But don't you think it's a little irresponsible to try to convince people that this belief of yours is actually effective? AFICT, there's as good a change that your advice will take ten years off of a life as it has of improving life. And you want to push this on others?
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by e9 on Monday February 25, 2019 @09:11AM (#19245680)
Mark Hyman made post on it(he is Hillary Clinton’s doctor): https://drhyman.com/blog/2010/08/24/vitamin-d-why-you-are-pr...
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by dhimes on Monday February 25, 2019 @09:48AM (#19245958)
That's a good read. He says you can go high (10000 IU/day) for 6-10 months, under doctor's supervision, then cut back down 2000-4000/day. This also makes sense from the perspective that it's fat-soluble, so you should be able to "fill up the tank" as he puts it.
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by TACIXAT on Monday February 25, 2019 @10:26AM (#19246243)
Thankfully it was posted to HN so I could find it. Google search has a truly become useless for this stuff. It's early in the morning, but I think I'm reading the abstract right. [1]

1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28768407/

Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by searine on Monday February 25, 2019 @10:40AM (#19246377)
Try google scholar next time instead of regular google search.
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by Strom on Monday February 25, 2019 @10:50AM (#19246440)
To add some anecdotal info, those numbers are much more closer to my own personal experience. I've been experimenting with various dosages, with regular blood tests by a doctor, for a few years now. Currently I've setteled at 4000 IU/day to stay at 75 nmol/L, which is the lower end of what is considered normal.
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by dhimes on Monday February 25, 2019 @11:10AM (#19246601)
Excellent! Thank you!
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by wolfi1 on Monday February 25, 2019 @08:11AM (#19245336)
I would be very careful with liposoluble vitamines, they can aggregate in your fat tissue and cause toxic effects
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by rapsey on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:28AM (#19245121)
It was 6000+
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by MikeCapone on Monday February 25, 2019 @09:17AM (#19245721)
Was it gelcaps or dry tablets? Vitamin D is fat-soluble so much better absorbed in gelcap format (and taken with a meal).
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by lukeschlather on Monday February 25, 2019 @09:32AM (#19245842)
Personally, I've been taking 5000 IUs/day and recently started stepping that closer to 10,000 IUs. I use the liquid drops which are in oil, and I always try to take them with some sort of meal. The liquid is a lot cheaper and seems like the ideal way to absorb it to me.

This is in cloudy wintertime Seattle. In sunny times it may be completely unnecessary.

Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by Ensorceled on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:45AM (#19245195)
Just another anecdote, a friend of mine with Lyme Disease has serious problems absorbing vitamin D (and other nutrients) via food, his doctor has him on 10K per day.
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by gbrown on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:57AM (#19245262)
If I recall correctly, such a treatment is not yet evidence based, though clinical trials are ongoing.
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by drited on Monday February 25, 2019 @07:23PM (#19250865)
That is interesting. I had read that 500 was ineffective but did not know that 10000 was effective. If you've done the research what is the most reliable source you found ?
Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by opportune on Monday February 25, 2019 @02:06PM (#19248377)
taking vitamin D at such a high dose can give you health problems such as kidney stones. When I took 5000 IUs for a period of time I started getting painful kidneys just from the urinary effects.

Now I try to get my vitamin D through more normal sources by eating lots of UV-exposed mushrooms, salmon, and sardines. Plus side is these foods are all quite healthy even without the vitamin D

Re:Sunlight through glass does not provide Vitamin D by C1sc0cat on Monday February 25, 2019 @12:43PM (#19247545)
I didn't have any problems getting 20k IU in the UK had to get it prescribed