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Re:Uncleftish Beholding by hprotagonist on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @05:50PM (#19203719)
Full text archived here: https://groups.google.com/forum/message/raw?msg=alt.language...

"coalstuff" always makes me smile a bit because it is the literal etymology of "carbon".

Re:Uncleftish Beholding by FabHK on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @06:16PM (#19203955)
Just as "waterstuff" ("Wasserstoff" in German) for "hydrogen" ("hudro" = water), and "sourstuff" ("Sauerstoff" in German) for "oxygen" ("oxys" = "sharp, acid").

Anyway. Also, "airplane' = "Flugzeug" in German = "Flying stuff". This is fun, actually. Flystuffs are outsending so much coaltwosourstuff that it is enharming the vapourball.

Re:Uncleftish Beholding by AnthonBerg on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @04:14AM (#19206686)
A 100% literal one-to-one translation yields a passage in Icelandic which would be considered good Icelandic: Flugvélar gefa frá sér svo mikinn koltvísýring að það skaðar gufuhvolfið.

“Vél” (machine) has an amazing history. It’s from the same roots as wheel, wile (as in cunning), and will. And some other proto-indo-european words that carry connotations of prophecy and bending the world to one’s will through divination and cunning and guile, and consecrating it to holiness. You know, with machines. Vélar. Crafted from thought and understanding of the deeper layers of the world.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/v%C3%A9l#Etymology_2

Re:Uncleftish Beholding by pjc50 on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @07:06AM (#19207235)
My favourite one of those is https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/t%C3%B6lva : computer, from "number-witch".

Referenced in the game Signal From Tolva, and the essay "Hexing the Technical Interview".

Re:Uncleftish Beholding by eecc on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @05:39AM (#19206959)
Dutch for airplane is "vliegtuig", composed of "vlieg(en)" to fly, and "tuig" rig, gear which is reasonably a synecdoche for "machine".

Interesting...

I'm constantly frustrated by the diffuse ignorance of etymology, knowing where words - used to represent and describe - come from provides a surprisingly pleasant depth to everyday life.

Re:Uncleftish Beholding by lordnacho on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @03:05AM (#19206406)
In Danish nitrogen is "Kvælstof", or "Strangling stuff". From German: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Stickstoff#German

I'm guessing because Nitrogen gas will kill a flame?

Re:Uncleftish Beholding by kryptiskt on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @03:29AM (#19206491)
Swedish optimizes that and leave out the "stuff", so we have "syre" and "kväve".
Re:Uncleftish Beholding by seszett on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @05:31AM (#19206934)
In French it's azote, meaning lifeless. I think many languages use a variation of this (based on the Greek roots) as well.
Re:Uncleftish Beholding by PavlikPaja on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @04:22AM (#19206721)
When you breath pure nitrogen, you suffocate without really noticing anything.
Re:Uncleftish Beholding by arethuza on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @05:41AM (#19206970)
There have been suggestions that nitrogen could be used as a means of execution:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/...

[NB Personally, I'm not in favour of executing anyone, but if you must do it why not do it so that it doesn't cause any suffering?]

Re:Uncleftish Beholding by mc32 on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @06:48PM (#19204204)
Huh, I always had thought ‘zeug’ was ‘thing’ rather than ‘stuff’ (quantifiable vs. unquantifiable). (lighter, toy, plane, etc.)

But... it looks like I’m wrong and most of the time it refers to ‘stuff’.

Re:Uncleftish Beholding by atombender on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @07:47PM (#19204587)
"Zeug" makes more sense if you think of it as the English "gear" -- tools and equipment, the original etymology -- which is also uncountable. "Thing" isn't entirely wrong, but it's specifically a thing that is some sort of device that has utility. A Flugzeug can be thought or as flying equipment, Fahrzeug is driving equipment, and so on.

In Norwegian and Danish you'll have -tøy/-tøj words that came from Germanic via Old Norse: "fartøy" (vehicle or boat, as in "Fahrzeug"), "leketøy/legetøj" (toy; literally play-thing).

"Zeug" (or rather, its proto-Germanic ancestor) survives in English as "toy", funnily enough.

Re:Uncleftish Beholding by kuerbel on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @01:31AM (#19206050)
Thank you, now I don't have to explain it haha. I just want to add that in medieval times Zeug was also used to refer to arms and armor. Some cities still have a Zeughaus, nowadays usually a museum for plate armor etc.

The pejorative connotation wasn't there back then.

Re:Uncleftish Beholding by bhaak on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @07:38AM (#19207365)
In Switzerland the term "Zeughaus" is still in use as the official term for an arsenal or armory.
Re:Uncleftish Beholding by Tistron on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @07:59AM (#19207465)
In Swedish we also have "-tyg" and "-don" which is similar.

So we have far-tyg for faring-stuff on water, and for-don for faring-stuff on land.

Tyg on itself is fabric, like "stoff" is in German or Danish (in Danish stof is also drugs or matter in general).

Re:Uncleftish Beholding by FabHK on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @09:29AM (#19208026)
"Gear" makes a lot of sense. "Zaumzeug" denotes the bridles used to control horses.

Etymology is just fascinating.

Re:Uncleftish Beholding by FearNotDaniel on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @03:47AM (#19206561)
Not to mention "lekking", which still means "playing" in parts of northern England.
Re:Uncleftish Beholding by FabHK on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @06:57PM (#19204284)
Hmm, "Zeug" is uncountable and without plural (like "stuff"), while "Ding" is countable and has a plural (like "thing"). I think I've seen "Flugzeug" rendered as "Flything", but "Flystuff" feels closer.
Re:Uncleftish Beholding by SilasX on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @09:07AM (#19207877)
I wish German used Sonnestoff (sunstuff) for helium, Geldstoff (moneystuff) for gold, and Salzstoff (saltstuff) for sodium.

Also I think I heard that German-speaking "Pennsylvania Dutch" speakers in the US independently started calling an airplane a Flugschiff (flyship) when they first started seeing them.

Re:Uncleftish Beholding by FabHK on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @09:27AM (#19208001)
That would make a lot of sense. "Sonnenstoff", with an extra "n", probably; it rolls of the tongue more easily.

Zeppelins are also called "Luftschiff", airship (giving rise to the usual German concatenations such as "Luftschiffahrtsmuseum" (airship transport museum)).

Re:Uncleftish Beholding by ThePadawan on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @02:19AM (#19206248)
As a German ESL student, I found it hard to believe that "foodstuff" and its plural was a genuine expression and not a prank. Seems so much more German than Lebensmittel is ("Survival/Life tool/gear").
Re:Uncleftish Beholding by no_identd on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @02:56AM (#19206377)
"Lebensmittel" more represents something like "Life implement" or "means of life".

Edit: Conceptually it maps almost exactly to Latin "nutrimentum", and hence, English "nourishment".

As such, I supposed we could construct some neo-latin from it to more closely approximate it, such as vitimentum or rather vitalimentum - but if you look closely at vitalimentum, you'll notice it contains "alimentum" as a substring, and, well:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aliment#Etymology

Re:Uncleftish Beholding by Freak_NL on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @04:12AM (#19206681)
Or just use victualia (from late Latin), which appears to be derived from victus (nourishment) and vīvō (live, survive).

In English this corresponds to victuals, and in German Viktualien of course¹.

1: E.g., as used in the name of Munich's Viktualienmarkt market square.

Re:Uncleftish Beholding by andrewem on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @03:56PM (#19211888)
Have you come across the word "nutmeat", meaning the edible part of a nut? It's from two words with Germanic roots and thus might give you a similar feeling.

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/nutmeat

Re:Uncleftish Beholding by ThePadawan on Thursday February 21, 2019 @01:50AM (#19215060)
Now, I hadn't, and wow!
Re:Uncleftish Beholding by LiquidInsect on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @06:27PM (#19213139)
Conversely, I felt the same way about "flugzeug", "spielzeug", "werkzeug" etc.
Re:Uncleftish Beholding by ThePadawan on Thursday February 21, 2019 @04:16AM (#19215604)
Vice versa, you can confuse German speakers by claiming that you drink liquids out of a rock (German: "Stein").
Re:Uncleftish Beholding by tigerlily on Tuesday February 19, 2019 @06:09PM (#19203895)
In the Dutch language, carbon and nitrogen are referred to as koolstof (coalstuff) and stikstof (chokestuff), respectively.
Re:Uncleftish Beholding by Cthulhu_ on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @05:07AM (#19206861)
I'm confused by the "stuff" suffix in English though; the Dutch "stof" can also be translated as "dust" or "matter". Matter probably has origins in French or Latin or something though.
Re:Uncleftish Beholding by romwell on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @03:50AM (#19206575)
Kool stuff!
Re:Uncleftish Beholding by jvanloov on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @07:30AM (#19207333)
"The worldken of this behaving, in all its manifold ways, is called minglingken."

Funny, the Dutch word for chemistry is "scheikunde", which would be more like "breakupken" ("scheiden" = to separate). Although I think "minglingken" sounds better...

Re:Uncleftish Beholding by interfixus on Wednesday February 20, 2019 @01:16AM (#19205989)
Carbon is actually kulstof in Danish, a language Anderson was thoroughly familiar with.