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Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by staticassertion on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @07:09PM (#18974282)
Not the person you're responding to, but no. Until uMatrix actually breaks for me, I'm not switching to Firefox.

Switching is a pain, and I don't like Firefox's UI/UX. I'd switch if they did this because I value the extension very highly, but I wouldn't be happy about it.

Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by dylan604 on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @09:02PM (#18975006)
> and I don't like Firefox's UI/UX

Maybe I'm not as critical about the UI, but I have both browsers open at the same time so I took a second to compare them.

Both browsers have a row of tabs. Below that is a second row. The left most set of buttons is navigation (back, forward, refresh, etc), then the address bar, then on the very right of the row is a set of buttons for extensions, settings, etc. The remaining portion of the window is the webpage. I'm just not seeing many differences. The view of recently downloads is different, but nothing that bothers me from either one.

I also just compared how both browsers displayed HN main page. Slight differences in color of orange and font weight, but only noticeable if comparing both directly (and besides devs, who does that?).

So I guess I'm asking what about the UI/UX is bothering you. I'm almost hesitant to ask because I'm sure if you point something out that bugs me, I'll never un-see it.

Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by _ks3e on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @10:07PM (#18975294)
Firefox doesn't deal with touchscreen and touchpad gestures very well. Take, for instance, the two-finger pinch-zoom-in gesture. Chrom(ium), Opera, Edge, Safari etc. all smoothly and instantaneously magnify the area where the mouse is. Firefox, on the other hand, reflows the entire page with each zoom (as the other browsers do when you do a ctrl +/- zoom), which is inconsistent with how we're used to interacting with touchscreen devices, in addition to being quite laggy on a reasonably modern laptop and tending to undershoot or overshoot the desired zoom level. This zoom behavior is also a lot less useful for looking at a particular item on the page, since the reflow-zoom doesn't seem to depend on mouse position on any way (so any element not at the center of the screen will no longer be visible past a certain zoom level, no matter where you put the mouse pointer when zooming in), which makes using it a lot more frustrating on smaller monitors.

The lack of smooth zoom support has been a known deficiency in FF for the last seven years (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=789906) and has yet to be addressed.

Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by dylan604 on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @01:41AM (#18976195)
I do not own a touch screen device that is not a mobile device, so I have not experienced that. I also realize that my comments only related to the UI portion, not taking into account how responsiveness (or lack of) affects the UX portion.
Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by dralley on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @11:07PM (#18975600)
Try nightly with WebRender enabled and see if it's still an issue. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't.
Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by ImaCake on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @04:18AM (#18976864)
I am a firefox user but will switch to chrome when using google maps. Simply because using maps on firefox on my windows tablet sucks, but its a breeze in chrome.

Otherwise I completely avoid chrome because of the privacy issues, and because firefox has 'containers' and is a little snappier.

Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by staticassertion on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @10:28PM (#18975407)
On the surface they're quite similar, I agree. I won't pretend that Firefox has some whole separate UX decision process that's ruining it for me. It is, like all decisions between similar products, a matter of my own pet nit.

I dislike Firefox's zooming behavior. I have to zoom into websites because I have poor vision. Chrome's zoom behavior has been extremely natural for me, and easy to adjust to. When I used Firefox I attempted to use 'vanilla' as well as an extension that aimed to improve the zooming behavior by separating scale of text from scale of other elements, etc.

I was unable to find a solution that worked for me. I hated using the extension, which itself had a pretty bad UX, and I couldn't get preferences to save properly for individual webpages.

I can't use a browser with poor zooming behavior, I rely on it too much. As I write this I am zoomed in 250% in Chrome, for example.

Those pet-bugs or pet-nits are, in my opinion, the huge thing that keeps people from moving (alongside the perceived friction of moving data over). I wouldn't read too much into mine.

Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by Izkata on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @01:55PM (#18981375)
> When I used Firefox I attempted to use 'vanilla' as well as an extension that aimed to improve the zooming behavior by separating scale of text from scale of other elements, etc.

I don't know how Chrome does it, but needing an extension sounds like you didn't try the built-in text zoom: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/font-size-and-zoom-incr...

Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by joobus on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @10:36PM (#18975441)
I agree 100% on Firefox's terrible zooming implementation. It's the reason I started using Chrome.
Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by vSanjo on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @09:57PM (#18975265)
Your reply resounded with me a little. I agree with the person you replied to, I don't like the UI/UX.

I think it's the 'second level' of UI stuff - menu's behind buttons, settings pages, things like that. I think Chrome does a good job balancing 'advanced user' and 'basic user' stuff. Firefox feels a little too 'dumbed down' for me.

I'm honestly trying hard to put a fine point on it, but it a lot of it just feels 'off'. I'd love a very minimal-design, maximum function look into it.

Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by dylan604 on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @10:38PM (#18975465)
I was going to add a stipulation about the about:settings type stuff being different and what not, but chose not to originally. My thinking was how often are you in settings that it's a problem? I'm not a browser power user, so I only go in to the settings usually after reading something here. I set it, and forget it. Maybe 30 seconds?

As far as dev stuff, I'm really only familiar with Firefox after Firebug was rolled into the browser so that it is similar to Chrome with a Cmd-Option-i key press. I hear people stating that the dev tools are still very different. All I really ever use it for is seeing how the DOM is changing in the inspector, looking for output in the console, and see what files are doing (404,200,500, params/response, and CSS values type of stuff. Both browsers do what I need in a way that I can't tell the difference.

Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by Izkata on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @02:03PM (#18981467)
It's almost entirely the more in-depth stuff. For example, differences I find annoying include seeing raw ajax values, re-runnning those queries, and how Chrome can't select individual log levels to view in the console.

On top of that, various parts of Firebug's console UI was better than either one's current console, mainly in how it displayed data.

Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by askmike on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @10:10PM (#18975310)
I felt like this as well when I was still using Chrome for everything (I switched when Firefox launched Quantum). For me it simply turned out that after getting used to Firefox (again) I had no problems at all with the UI. Chrome felt better before the switch because I was used to it.
Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by taurath on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @10:08PM (#18975296)
On macbooks for me just the act of running firefox makes the CPU go crazy and the fan turn on. Multiple different years.
Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by Izkata on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @01:49PM (#18981289)
> I also just compared how both browsers displayed HN main page. Slight differences in color of orange and font weight, but only noticeable if comparing both directly (and besides devs, who does that?).

So on the color thing, one of our designers noticed and I looked into it. Turned out to be an open bug report for Chrome(ium? I forget) where it's using the wrong color profile for css, and resulted in images not matching borders and backgrounds.

Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by mbrumlow on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @08:40PM (#18974903)
I was in your boat, it is a pain, but...

I found that I actually like the UI in firefox after customizing it. For me it may have been easy because I use sway (i3 clone on wayland -- clone is the best, it is actually more / better than i3). But it really ended up looking nice[0]. I found I could customize more things that I could on chrome, including the start page.

In any case, if you don't switch, I urge you to give it 15 mins and tinker with the ui config and a home page config. You can rid your self of alot of weird chrome bits that I think most find ugly and make it look smooth.

Further more, you can set up your own sync server and sync all your stuff to a safe spot.

[0]: https://imgur.com/XpTxwn9

Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by jgtrosh on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @04:07AM (#18976812)
I actually don't switch to Firefox because I'm on i3. I fell in love with surf-like browsing, and am able to somewhat get the same result with chrome in --app mode. There is however no way (to my knowledge) to get tab-less full-window browsing in Firefox.
Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by jgtrosh on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @07:25AM (#18977621)
edit: I just installed the tab-less extension, edited my userChrome.css, and I'm really happy with the results. I'm going to give Firefox a go from now on!
Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by mbrumlow on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @03:05PM (#18982222)
Can you please share a screenshot, and information on what you edited in userChrome.css ?
Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by jgtrosh on Thursday January 24, 2019 @02:54PM (#18992291)
Sorry I hadn't seen this earlier.

I don't have a screenshot right now, but it's just as you might expect, the whole tab line is removed (the nav bar line with menus comes to the top instead). [This post](https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/736cji/how_to_hide...) talks about doing the same thing in the context of tree-style tabs. Good luck!

Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by sodosopa on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @07:15PM (#18974331)
I'm in the same boat. I'm not a fan of Firefox at all. Leadership, code, marketing, UI, etc. I'll probably move to Safari
Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by bobajeff on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @07:32PM (#18974463)
There's also Brave and Kiwi browser if they disable/limit this api in their extensions there's no stopping Chromium-based browsers from implementing them natively outside of extensions.
Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by erklik on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @08:29PM (#18974842)
Isn't Firefox like much better in terms of the technical side of things i.e. faster, uses fewer resources, has better code inspection tools etc?
Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by clumsysmurf on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @08:45PM (#18974928)
On the Mac, Safari is far more power efficient. With each update I notice Firefox is using more and more ram too. Also good luck finding out which tab is causing problems.
Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by feikname on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @08:41PM (#18974908)
Last time I did a DOM benchmark Chrome still beat it by a significant margin. Also, only personal experience, but Chrome seems way more responsive with multiple tabs open than Firefox.

One annoying thing is that current versions of Firefox seem to rely on disk I/O too much, so if it's busy, you can't really do anything (switching or creating new tabs is greeted by spinning loading circle that takes a long time to happen).

Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by feikname on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @08:36PM (#18974888)
Could you explain more about your dislike of Firefox's leadership?
Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by jammygit on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @10:24PM (#18975385)
IIRC, the complaints I've read online are along the lines of: Mozilla ran a Mr Robot ad campaign with browser integration, partnered with an ad company for some research in a seemingly-sneaky way, made their CEO resign (now the CEO of Brave) because he donated personal money to an anti-gay marriage lobby effort, forced pocket integration for ad revenue purposes, and they deprecated their extension api which broke most extensions that did not get updated.

I'm not saying anything in favour of or against these decisions, they're just what I remember reading people complain about over the last year.

edit: typo and clarification

Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by fucking_tragedy on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @09:26PM (#18975125)
Funny, I switched to Firefox because I preferred the UI/UX. I'm happy with my choice.
Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by mrhappyunhappy on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @01:10AM (#18976072)
Firefox UI feels like it was left behind. When I open up Firefox I feel like I've stepped into last decade. I realize this is just a personal opinion but it's strong enough to keep me from using FF. I was also super irritated with their default tab that shows all of the links you visited. I prefer my porn not showing every time I open a new tab. Features like this one, even if easy to disable should be opt in, not opt out. Any company that enables an opt out feature by default will get the boot unless no alternative exists. I know, it's harsh, but I vote with my usage and with my money.
Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by davnicwil on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @03:56AM (#18976756)
I'd recommend giving Brave a try if you haven't already.

It's built on top of Chromium so has the same UI/UX as Chrome, including dev tools. And it does ad blocking out of the box, no need for an extension even.

Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by rattray on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @08:53PM (#18974958)
Why not Brave? It uses Chromium. UI/UX also isn't as nice as Chrome but it's closer.
Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by IggleSniggle on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @09:54PM (#18975250)
The headline is “changes to Chromium,” on which Brave is built...
Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by rattray on Wednesday January 23, 2019 @12:21AM (#18975869)
I trust the Brave team to find a way around this, eg; with a fork. Otherwise their organization will fail.
Re:Google proposes changes to Chromium which would disable u... by masonic on Tuesday January 22, 2019 @08:54PM (#18974965)
Do we know that Brave will continue to be immune to this?