Sure but that was one of the sections with reasons. They also said

> While macroeconomic challenges in some markets were a key contributor to this trend, we believe there are other factors broadly impacting our iPhone performance, including consumers adapting to a world with fewer carrier subsidies, US dollar strength-related price increases, and some customers taking advantage of significantly reduced pricing for iPhone battery replacements.

I don’t think we should ignore these either.

Right before your quote they use the words VAST MAJORITY to describe China's impact. And it's not just one section, it's stated at the top of the release in the summary, along with supply constraints, as the reason for the revised estimate.

My point is that almost every other comment here was confirmation bias about things hnews readers think are important. They're not important. They're worthy of a throwaway sentence in an earnings estimate at best. It's obnoxious.

Incorporating the carrier costs in the analysis, are you getting more than $5 in value a day? Because with an Xs max and a noncapped plan, that's what I'd be spending.

So even with that price I'd consider it more valuable than what I'm spending.

With that said, of course I can have a very similar experience while using a cheaper phone so a better ROI but I think that phones are actually our most bang-for-the-buck gadget nowadays.

Alas so far I haven't found any real data, only this chart showing Apple slowing down in Q3 already: https://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/idc-smart...

I likewise have Xiaoimi products and their Mi Home app for smart home products is awful and a far cry from Apple's polish.

On the other hand, Apple has its minority but staunch followers, but it's rather common to diss them or see them as brainwashed fools for spending 1K € on a phone.

This is a neutral opinion, I'm in the middle ground with my 500 € HTC.

They are very popular and desired in many EU countries. Xiaomi / Ninebot dominate the electric scooter business and the phones and home appliances are very popular and desired. I just bought the xiaomi vacuum robot for instance which blows all others out of the water.

Similarly with the Huawei P20 Pro which is one of the most desired phones right now here.

I once had a Toshiba laptop purchased in Singapore. When the motherboard died and I looked for a replacement, the only option was to ship it back to Singapore, which was of course a no-go.

Since then, I've only purchased Apple or Dell laptops, as both of them have fast turnaround times, since they're actually available in my country. Definitely costs a little more, but you can't beat that peace of mind.

When I was a kid, I remember my parent's and grandparent's generation talking about the cheap Japanese crap, and they would only buy American. A few decades alter the Japanese stuff was the good stuff, and the American's couldn't compete.

the problem with the chinese crap, not just phones but TVs, pads, whatever, is they literally dump a bunch of decent hardware in there, and just stop. no QA, no support, nothing you can find online - so in a few months when any little thing breaks, or there's no way to fix an annoying feature, it goes in the trash.

lots of stories, but here's a couple. got a chinese phone so I never have to put a chinese sim into my real phone. pretty popular in china, good specs. root it and put a non-chinese OS? nothing, and I've searched in chinese.

About 4 years ago got a xiaoimi tablet. quad core, 2GB ram, mini-hdmi output, $70 on amazon. first month perfect. then - wifi started turning off after about 5min, only fixed by a reboot. no support, no documentation, nothing on forums - and it was sold for about 3 months and then they started selling some identical crap with a different model#. seriously, I have no problem paying $1-2k for a phone or pad. What I don't want is useless crap that wastes days of time and gets me pissed off so I can't fall asleep, a year later on a Tuesday.

The thing is, the Chinese culture is used to half-working crap, and they think it's normal. They pump shit out of the sewers, boil it, then use the oil floating on top to dilute cooking oil. At most restaurants. Phone has awkward interface, security holes, and 1 security update after release? who cares - your thoughts are on rent in a dirty apartment and food. If you order your steak medium - it's well done, because yes, they don't toss the beef when it goes bad - they serve it to you, everywhere.

Buildings use a bunch more cement and reinforcement than normal countries. Why? Because the construction workers eyeball all measurements and just don't care - if you don't account for error, it'll collapse.

Not knocking on the Chinese race (my wife is Chinese), but I am knocking their culture. Zero attention to detail, zero cares, zero pride in what you do. It works there, because life is shitty and you don't care about a UI bug when you're broke, there's no law, and an oppressive police force that puts you in jail to harvest your organs for the rich.

Chinese companies are getting better and better. A desoldering device (Zhongdi) and a 3D-printer (Anycubic) I bought recently are my anecdotal examples. When looking at older Youtube reviews and at my devices, one can clearly see that problematic details very corrected or improved in later versions of the device.

Isn't this the same cylce Japan went through? At first cheap imitation, then better quality, then innovation? Wasn't "Made in Germany" first established as a British measure to warn consumers about a crappy product?

In conclusion: there are many crappy Chinese products, but not all Chinese products are crappy. The better manufactures strive for more stable costumer relationships.

Citation needed. My understanding was that there are some crooks producing the sewer oil, but that it's used as an adulterant in cooking oil and the restaurants aren't knowingly cooking in sewer oil.

"The business was carried out under the instructions or consent of the restaurant owners for months, the report said."

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2091125/chin...

This is not Wikipedia.

> Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something.

‘Citation needed’ teaches nothing but it is certainly very easy to type. It might be reasonable if there is a rule that citations are required like on Wikipedia, but here they are not.

The fact that some behaviors are popular doesn’t make them appropriate. Trolling is also quite popular and so are a lot of inappropriate behaviors.

It's a pretty known brand around here, although originally not because of their smartphone business.

[0] Warsaw University of Technology

Chinese people also have a higher rate of fixing things when they break and they have specialist repair shops everywhere that can replace any component of the phone, so its a different market.

You can't just look at a market and say "oh, its going down for no reason whatsoever" there is always a reason. Its just a question whether the lack of growth will cause a crash in the overall market now.

I don't think ppl are ignoring it. Appl cannot only be a 'good economy company'. Look at Xiaomi for example in your link, its winning international markets by making good affordable phones. Apple should adapt to the market conditions, like xiaomi did, and give ppl what they want in all economic circumstances. Pointing out that apple is( self-admittedly) a fair weather company is not missing forest for trees.

From your own link

> Samsung loses ground in global phone market as Chinese rivals gain share

> While Samsung still leads the world in smartphone sales, it’s being squeezed by Chinese handset makers like Huawei Technologies Co.

I think I missed it somewhere but where did samsung say that their slowdown is due to 'poor economic performance' of china?

True, but that's why Samsung is hurt more than Apple.

> Apples should adapt to the market conditions and give ppl what they want in all economic circumstances.

There's a hole in their phone line-up about the size of an iPhone SE or iPhone 6. I think the new iPhones are great and there's something to be said to have premium and super premium tiers. Their Mac line-up used to be four different products as well divided in more or less the same way (pro / prosumer and desktop / portable) where in this case it should be premium / super premium and phablet / pocketable.

The pocketable premium phone doesn't exist anymore.

It should hurt apple too right? doesn't 'poor economic performance' mean ppl are buying cheaper phones(xiaomi) vs appl's expensive phones? Chinese didn't just stop buying phones( looking at those graphs) but just stopped buying expensive apple phones.

Apple blaming the economy is like farmer blaming the monsoon instead of admitting that he should've built a reservoir last year.

Samsung's declining earnings has all to do with the declining memory price. The company had been under pressure to increase production to lower the price of memory products all year last year. Apple's problem is in China, fewer unit sales -- their timing is pure coincidence.

Also note that Samsung's market share in China is almost nil, from #1 just four years ago. The company has really nothing to lose at this point.

You want to know the main reason for the revenue shortfall? Market saturation. China certainly has to do with it as well, but generally Chinese fluctuation have been offset by other markets...but now they aren't, due to saturation.

It could be the other way. Capital flight from China to safer grounds.

Ding ding ding.

There are all kinds of variables driving a global recession but the biggest pieces are the Chinese economy plateauing, Brexit and Trump showing just how divided the Western world really is. America's political civil war just driving this point home even more. These factors combined with a changing climate and a general populace that is only short of revolting thanks to the infinite variety of 'bread and circuses' available to us. It's like this is by design or something...

Why not both?

But we'll see when China picks up again, if Apple is back on it's level or not there - everything else is speculation.

Remember Xiaomi? All they do is launch a product and people take more they can afford to manufacture.

Lastly Apple products are just impossibly expensive for almost all of India.

[...]

Apple products are just impossibly expensive for almost all of India

Bit of a conflict there. They’re not going to lower prices elsewhere just to expand in India.

The thing is they can - if they manufacture the phones in India.

When they import the phones from China to India, they have to pay duty on it, which is ultimately passed on to the customer, thus making the iPhone costlier in India. So even if the manufacturing cost ends up the same as in China, the made in India iPhone can be priced cheaper.

The problem with Apple's current approach is that they want a SINGLE MINIMUM PRICE POINT for all their devices, and the CEILING for that minimum price point is fixed based on the US and European market (the developed countries).

Note that for a developing country like India or China, even a $750 (for example) iPhone puts it in the very high-segment "luxury" range.

So Apple can still preserve its perception of highly desirable luxury / fashion / tech company, even with a lower price, in developing countries.

Ofcourse, their fear is that these cheaper phones may then be imported to the developed countries and poach sales there.

That is the dilemma that they face and need to crack.

What's the SEC going to do? They are in furloughs right now and have no budget to go after anyone. Looking further ahead, if a company has enough money, they can buy off the SEC by getting laws passed that will let the do whatever they want.