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Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by ars on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @12:56PM (#18808294)
I think the issue in cold climates is not the battery itself, it's heating the cabin.

With a combustion engine you use waste heat, but with a battery engine you use resistive heat and that comes right from your battery.

A/C also uses battery, but heat uses more energy.

Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by Scoundreller on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @01:42PM (#18808760)
Recommendation #1: heat the occupant, not the cabin

Recommendation #2: pre-heat the cabin

Recommendation #3: if/when driving in stop&go traffic, use the regen energy directly for heating to save some charge/discharge cycles.

Recommendation #4: along with #2, use some phase change materials to “charge” some thermal batteries.

#1&2 are a thing. Not sure about 3 and 4.

3 may require some predictive modelling to know if you’ll be driving in stop&go or not.

Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by londons_explore on Thursday January 03, 2019 @06:34AM (#18814387)
Pretty much no vehicles currently do #3, despite many being capable of it with software-only changes.

I believe this is because most vehicles do a fixed amount of regen(which goes into the battery) when the foot is off the accelerator, but no additional electric braking when the brake pedal is used. I think that's because current regulations have pretty much stopped modifications to the braking system in cars, and prevent tweaking it to do electric braking when available to do cabin heating, and mechanical braking otherwise.

Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by icebraining on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @02:15PM (#18809065)
How is #1 done?
Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by jusssi on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @02:51PM (#18809484)
With a seat heater. They were popular in the old times, when engines were not digitally controlled and took a long time to heat up enough to provide any warming effect inside the car.
Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by LinuxBender on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @03:13PM (#18809709)
Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by kwhitefoot on Thursday January 03, 2019 @12:58PM (#18817282)
Every car I've been in in Norway has had heaters in at least the front seats. The Tesla S has rear seat heaters as a configuration option when you buy the car as well as an option for a heated steering wheel. Quite a lot of the cars I rented in the US had heated seats, even in North Carolina.
Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by Scoundreller on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @02:35PM (#18809327)
Heated seats and steering wheels.
Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by baroffoos on Thursday January 03, 2019 @12:21AM (#18813002)
Dress properly for the weather.
Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by avar on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @07:30PM (#18811752)
With clothing.
Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by londons_explore on Thursday January 03, 2019 @06:37AM (#18814397)
Heat pumps can be used to heat the cabin with far less energy than resistive heaters. It's tricky to design them to be cheap, light, and work all the way down to -30C and up to 60C that cars are expected to be able to work in.
Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by goodcanadian on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @01:25PM (#18808593)
A/C also uses battery, but heat uses more energy.

I can't speak for all cars, but mine uses a heat pump for heat. Should have similar efficiency to A/C as that is exactly what a heat pump is.

Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by tigershark on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @01:36PM (#18808691)
Heat pump with outside temperatures below zero has same or lower efficiency than resistive heating.
Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by g8oz on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @04:15PM (#18810267)
A modern heat pump with a variable speed compressor can be more efficient than resistive heat down to about -25 degrees Celsius (-13F). See Mitsubishi's Mr. Slim series.

http://cdn.agilitycms.com/mesca/productdownloads/mem-201806-... (page 13)

Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by tigershark on Thursday January 03, 2019 @03:18AM (#18813629)
And if you use a ground source heat pump (that has to be interred) it would be even more efficient. So? I don’t think that you can put either of them in a car...
Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by g8oz on Thursday January 03, 2019 @10:34AM (#18815823)
The offerings from Mitsubishi and similar ones from other Asian manufacturers like LG and Fujitsu are air source heat pumps. I see no reason why the tech can't be scaled down to fit a car. It's certainly a reasonable goal for auto parts suppliers to aim at.
Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by Faaak on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @03:58PM (#18810123)
I suppose the cars heats resistively below zero, and with a heat pump above
Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by Scoundreller on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @01:33PM (#18808661)
Their efficiency goes way down the colder it gets. They’ll work well at 5-10C, but frost up and require electrically-expensive defrost cycles when it’s colder than -2 or -3 C.
Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by p1mrx on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @01:25PM (#18808595)
Some EVs produce heat more efficiently using a heat pump, which is basically an A/C running backwards.
Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by xxs on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @01:54PM (#18808877)
this works at 3-4C, falling down the efficiency drops off rapidly.

House geothermic heating is very similar, except the collector is buried under the ground where the temperature doesn't really go negative C (until -30C and depends on the soil, etc). Overall for EV cars in cold winters producing heat is a non-trivial task.

Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by olivermarks on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @02:37PM (#18809343)
IC engines drive all associated 'accessories' via belts where EV has to have dedicated battery draining motors for everything from windscreen wipers to hvac
Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by Rinzler89 on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @04:49PM (#18810579)
That's not completely true. For fuel efficiency, most modern ICE cars drive all the accessories with electric motors, with only the AC and brake booster being powered by the ICE in some cases.
Re:Norway's electric cars zip to new record: almost a third ... by olivermarks on Wednesday January 02, 2019 @05:28PM (#18810932)
Alternator charges battery