If you have Apple money, you buy Apple (either for the performance/value or as a status symbol). It doesn't make sense to me that someone confused by a manufacturer's site would jump to Apple in disgust.

Anecdotally, most of my family doesn't have Apple money, so they send me Amazon and Best Buy links asking if a low-end Windows machine is worth the $250.

A few years ago I visited a large electronics retailer to buy a Windows laptop to put Linux on. I’d been a Linux user for years. But the service was so dire at the store I became irritated. No one knew what they were talking about. I waited twenty minutes to talk to a member of staff, who went to find another member of staff, and left me waiting an additional twenty minutes. I thought fuck this, left, and walked by an Apple store on the same street. I was curious and popped in to have a look. The experience was such a contrast that I bought a MacBook Air on the spot. Five years later and I’ve bought another MacBook, two iPhones, two iPads, and god knows how much software.

Seriously, this, but from the opposite direction. I've been an Apple user since forever, and I keep thinking about switching to Linux. But then I try to find some hardware, and it's either Thinkpad (the same price as Apple, plus I have to install an operating system?), Dell XPS (everyone here seems to hate it), or hunt through an endless forest of confusing bits of hardware with machines named things like EnterpriseCo D8305xr and BigCorporate fx9301.818 and through those terrible websites, and, fuckit, Tim Cook gets some more of my money.

Can’t speak from actually purchasing from them, but System76 laptops seems like a great option for getting a Linux computer. The website is in stark contrast to the maze that the Dell website is.

Today I spent like 30 minutes fantasizing about what to buy and played with all kind of customization settings in their site.

Hurray for my new procrastination tool!

on the other hand looking to buy an ipad I have a choice between 6 "iPad" models, 4 "iPad mini", 2 "iPad Air" models and 4 "iPad Pro" models. Confusing and difficult to research anything.

Yes. I feel many people really look at the price in a very black-and-white sort of way. Truth is, if people really want the device in question, they do find a way -- and they do buy it.

I observed many times how even below-middle-class people around here in Eastern Europe could muster the money for a MacBook or a high-end iPhone with help from relatives or local short-term money lenders. (Sometimes from their boss as well -- many employers are happy to deduct 10-20% of your salary for 4-8 months until you repay the device.)

Also what you said about service is something that much of the tech crowd here in HN seems to severely underestimate. Even I as a programmer and a few other hardware guys I know appreciate a semi-informed employee who comes to us and answers intelligently any questions we ask them. Those that don't try and swindle us usually get our money.

> If you have Apple money, you buy Apple.

I have Apple money, I bought a Thinkpad.

I do own two apple devices (ipad mini 2 and this years iPad with a pencil), excellent devices but I like Linux too much for day to day work.

> If you have Apple money, you buy Apple (either for the performance/value or as a status symbol).

Rather: If you have Apple money, you buy a ThinkPad (either for the performance/value or as a status symbol). :-)

Lenovo suffers from perpetual sale syndrome. I know they have varying sales, from 20% to 40% off or free upgrades, but I'm never certain the current offer is the best available, so I postpone purchasing to see if next week is better and usually forget to actually follow up. I'd probably have spent twice as much if they offered Apple like experience, where the price is the price.

Good luck ordering anything from Lenovo. For me, checkout failed after successful Visa verification. Support answers they don't know why and cannot help. Unacceptable for me if I do 1800€ purchases. Warranty terms are completely obfuscated.

Try to find an answer if your TP has world-wide support. You can't. It needs IWS International Warranty Service. TPs have that by default, people say, but during checkout it will tell you IWS is not applicable (because included? the IWS model number list will tell you, but do you have the correct model number during checkout?)

/rant

Lenovo has one of the worst laptop websites. They have 10 "series" currently on the site: the X, T, P, Yoga, A, E, L, 13, 11E, and V.

Given the number of configurable options across the product line for processors, memory, hard drives, screens, etc., there must be thousands of possible combinations.

I assume many laptops across all of the series are available with 13-inch screens, so the name of the "13 series" is particularly confusing.

Thinkpad buyers use the other Lenovo site - http://psref.lenovo.com/

Thank you for this link. So if I wanted to ask someone to get something specific for me if link them to

http://psref.lenovo.com/Detail/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_A485?M=20MU...

And they'd go somewhere and get quotes? What's the process?

Never seen this!

Is there something similar for other brands?

While I think most of the "series" itself make sense, the configurations are often insane.

The X280 still has a 1366x768 display option.

For T480s, you need to figure out if you have 8GB RAM or 4GB soldered + 4GB. Even more stupid, the latter option comes more expensive.

There are 8GB soldered, 8GB soldered + 8GB DIMM, and other options http://psref.lenovo.com/Product/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_T480s

so that 8GB option I considered to buy doesn't even have upgradeable RAM? Thank you for that page, it's incredibly helpful, also since I'm in a region without English website.

The configuration page lists the options like that:

8GB (4GB soldered + 4GB)

8GB

For me that implies the 8GB are configurable. What the fuck.

I came here to complain about Lenovo's website.

Yes, intentional confusion is a dangerous game in a competitive environment. Though I suppose these folks must have carefully gathered metrics to compare the profits they gain from the confusion (if there really are any) versus what they lose when people leave without buying.

That or they just pick one that looks good enough without shopping around.