News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by bootsz on Friday October 19, 2018 @07:06AM (#18255769)
> I didn't have to work that hard, and one day I had this realization while sitting in my gray cubicle (I was in a sea of gray cubicles surrounded by gray walls, listening to white noise and all alone): I'm like, “Man I am so tired. I need to go home and take a nap.” I went home, but as soon as I got there I realized, “I'm not tired anymore.”

Is there a name for this type of fatigue (or perception thereof)? I'm curious if this has been studied at a psychological or neurological level. As in, why do we feel tired/sleepy in these kinds of environments (as opposed to say anxious or restless)? Personally I've experienced it at least some of the time at almost every desk job I've ever had.

I don't think it's merely boredom alone. Being bored / doing nothing at home doesn't feel the same way.

I also don't think it's the same kind of mental exhaustion you experience when working on something really challenging, like trying to crack a very hard math problem or something. Clearly in these situations the problem is that the tasks at hand, if any, are neither complex nor difficult.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by wpietri on Friday October 19, 2018 @08:54AM (#18256356)
> Is there a name for this type of fatigue (or perception thereof)?

I think of it as lack of motivation combined with low-grade frustration from not being allowed to shift to something worthwhile. Paul Buchheit is obviously a self-winding guy. But put him in a context where he's expected to do things he doesn't care about and is forbidden to do things he does care about and all the air goes out of him. That's certainly what it's like for me.

Companies should learn a lesson from this. When I'm managing I work hard to build close-knit, cross-functional teams that score well on Pink's Autonomy/Mastery/Purpose triad. Purpose is the foundation: you have to give the team something meaningful to do and then connect them to that meaning. Autonomy comes next: you give them broad long-term goals and near-term milestones and turn them loose. They should always feel independent but accountable. Mastery comes from letting them meet and overcome challenges, learning as they go, but it doesn't hurt to support them by providing them coaching, access to experts, and any training they ask for.

Buchheit is clearly exceptional, but I think everybody benefits from environments that support his approach to the world. Every child is curious and exploratory. Many have that beaten out of them by industrial-model education and top-down corporate workplaces. But I don't think it's ever truly gone, and I think businesses really benefit if they deeply engage their staff.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by tomhoward on Friday October 19, 2018 @07:40AM (#18255955)
I think it's related to the notion that depression (and burnout and other chronic states of negative emotion and low energy) is caused by a lack of optimism - or a lack of things to feel optimistic about.

From an evolutionary point of view, if we're not inspired and excited about what we're doing now or what we expect to be doing in the near future, it makes sense to go into energy conservation/restoration mode and go to sleep.

Similarly, over the long term, if we aren't inspired by the life we see ahead of us, it's best to go into energy preservation and contemplation mode while we try to figure out how to get onto a better path (and if we can't find one, we end up in chronic/deep depression/despair).

I've overcome depression (and come off meds) by developing/learning techniques for finding optimism any time things seem bleak.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by naveen99 on Friday October 19, 2018 @08:12AM (#18256110)
If you find optimism in the thing you were pessimistic about before that’s ideal. But if you can’t, how do you switch to not caring about it and switch to something else that you can be optimistic about ? It’s hard to know when to quit.
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by tomhoward on Friday October 19, 2018 @08:24AM (#18256175)
Yeah, that's all part of the technique; breaking down the issue, understanding why you're having negative emotional reactions to it, and deciding whether the problem is your emotional reaction (in which case, change that), or the outer-world situation (in which case, figure out the steps needed to change the situation).

It's taken a while to learn it (indeed I'm still learning it), but it's powerful the more it starts to click.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by martinraag on Friday October 19, 2018 @08:56AM (#18256370)
That sounds very interesting. Would you happen to have any pointers (i.e. books, links etc.) for anyone interested in learning more?
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by tomhoward on Friday October 19, 2018 @09:00AM (#18256389)
Not really any books - I think I'm going to have to write one! My approach comes from a variety of different sources - mostly in-person coaching from practitioners.

But you're welcome to email me (address in profile) and I can send you some links and suggestions.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by PascLeRasc on Friday October 19, 2018 @10:49AM (#18257072)
This sounds a lot like what I learned going through the Headspace introductory meditations. I'd give them a look if you haven't already, it's a great program.
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by drharby on Friday October 19, 2018 @02:55PM (#18259045)
This comment rings so much truth for me, in my past 2 years on wall street tech world.

Comforting to see it written by another person.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by obscurantist on Saturday October 20, 2018 @08:55PM (#18266270)
That's quite an interesting take on how to counteract depressive states. Do you know if there are any academic publications that have similar findings? I think this needs to be explored further, because this sounds prima facie credible.
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by TeMPOraL on Friday October 19, 2018 @11:29AM (#18257381)
Dale Carnegie, in his book "How to Stop Worrying and Start Living", raised a similar point. I won't quote directly, as I read it in Polish; the following is based on my notes:

In one the latter chapters, he has a rule about "summoning your own enthusiasm". The primary observation in that part of the chapter was that it's really hard to truly exhaust someone physically, and even harder to exhaust them mentally, if they're doing something they actually care about. He gave some examples, one involving special forces people, and concluded that the primary source of tiredness for most people is lack of motivation - lack of interest, or not being able to feel there's a goal to all the work one is doing.

While my opinion is that Carnegie was exaggerating a bit here, I won't deny that this rings very true to my experience. As a programmer, I don't get physically taxed by work, and I very rarely get mental exercise too (most programming on regular web jobs is just plain tedium). But I do feel really tired on the job very quickly, and - back when I was a regular employee - the feeling used to evaporate almost immediately when I clocked out for the day.

I can even give an example from yesterday - lots of work and a visiting a doctor made me really tired by the evening, but I decided to sit down and write some code for a side project. My tiredness was gone immediately, and after 2 hours of cranking out code, I had to force myself to go to sleep, in order to have any energy for the next day.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by existencebox on Friday October 19, 2018 @12:10PM (#18257720)
I was literally talking about this exact phenomena with the wife last night. It's almost impossible for me to be bored if I'm doing nothing. I could fill years of daydreaming, just in my own head. However, give me work tasks that I have no interest in, and I'll feel so bored/lethargic/unmotivated that just keeping my eyes on task and moving forward requires mental exertion.

When I was young, apparently this meant I had ADHD (Throwing this in as a snide comment to expose my opinion of how my primary schooling treated this symptom in children EDIT: I see in a side comment you were concerned about undiagnosed ADD, I'll admit I'm somewhat concerned with _overdiagnosing_ ADD. The medicines I was given gave me ticks that took decades for me to get rid of and altered my mental state in terrible ways, and it meant that instead of inspecting WHY I felt this way, I simply got shoved chock full of pills and then booted/put with other misfits, which just made the focus problem worse. The joke I used to make as a kid was that I only had an attention deficit for things that didn't matter).

I took issue with that, largely because I find the response to be eminently logical, and built coping mechanisms to let me succeed in spite of it, but the underlying driver is still there.

I realize this is such an insubstantive comment, but it's a topic I've tossed around in my head for many many years now, and often haunts me with a "why do you feel such fundamental friction with doing your job like every other professional adult" and hearing others express the same root is somewhat reassuring.

(I realize this is tangential, but if you're _at all_ a hip hop/poem fan, check out 9-5ers Anthem by Aesop Rock. this is one of my "at work coping mechanisms" when I feel this way.)

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by TeMPOraL on Friday October 19, 2018 @01:28PM (#18258336)
Yeah, I feel the same way you do. Please, leave me with nothing to do; I'll manage. Left to my own devices, I have 20 ideas 5 trains of thought to explore per minute.

> I see in a side comment you were concerned about undiagnosed ADD, I'll admit I'm somewhat concerned with _overdiagnosing_ ADD.

I get it. Child AD(H)D seems definitely overdiagnosed in the west; from what I read, giving medication seems to be the easiest hack to get kids to survive modern school system. But personally, I just want to have an expert opinion on whether or not I might have adult ADD, simply because I'm running out of plausible hypotheses, and this one fits well. I was depressed in the past and worked through that. I had anxiety issues, but they're almost gone too - I don't generally feel debilitating background anxiety anymore, unless I'm seriously falling behind on my obligations. The only unresolved thing left is the anxiety and weakening I feel in context of working.

> The joke I used to make as a kid was that I only had an attention deficit for things that didn't matter

I still feel like this. In a better world, this would be fine. Alas, we're not there yet.

> and often haunts me with a "why do you feel such fundamental friction with doing your job like every other professional adult"

Yes, this is exactly how I feel all the time, and had since entering the workforce. I have decent skills, I don't struggle with technical challenges. I only struggle with this fundamental friction. I look at people around me - friends, coworkers - and they all seem so productive and relaxed. Hell, my wife is the exact opposite of me - she's so good at getting things done at work she puts David Allen to shame. So yeah, it's reassuring to know that I'm not alone in this state - so thanks for sharing!

> (I realize this is tangential, but if you're _at all_ a hip hop/poem fan, check out 9-5ers Anthem by Aesop Rock. this is one of my "at work coping mechanisms" when I feel this way.)

Not a fan, just a casual listener. But I'm always open to any coping mechanism for this particular problem.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by sjg007 on Friday October 19, 2018 @05:03PM (#18260045)
ADD is not over diagnosed. It's probably more prevalent in the population than we think it is. The medications are not specifically harmful in a potential misdiagnosed case... they are just not effective. And there's multiple medications which have difference efficacies for different people. That being said 80% of people with ADHD find medication effective.

Dr. Russell Barkley has a book on it and also several talks on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7QuWchHvOY http://www.russellbarkley.org/

But you should get screened if you feel it would be beneficial. Find a doctor that specializes in ADHD/ADD. The way most adults find out they have ADHD/ADD is when they take their kids in for screening, usually due to school issues.

Depression, anxiety are co-morbid with ADHD/ADD as well.

Here's a good talk on one women's experience with ADHD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiwZQNYlGQI

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by existencebox on Friday October 19, 2018 @06:50PM (#18260662)
My behaviorist wife and mother (Freud would have something to say about me, wouldn't he) would tend to disagree with your first statement (overdiagnosis) with the caveat of "within certain populations." We focus a lot on kids, unfortunately often under the age within which the DSM actually supports these sorts of diagnoses.

I would personally disagree with your "medications are not specifically harmful in a misdiagnosed case." I'm not encouraging people to avoid seeking whatever help they see fit, but rather to not whitewash over the very tractable impact it had on a rather dark year or two of my childhood, and the lasting aftereffects. I honestly don't want to start a heated debate about whether or not to medicate, moreso call out to others who had a similar negative outcome that they're not alone and that it's not impossible to develop healthy coping mechanisms without pills.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by Viliam1234 on Saturday October 20, 2018 @07:36AM (#18262789)
It can be simultaneously underdiagnosed and overdiagnosed.

http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/17/joint-over-and-underdia...

> Suppose that 3% of the population has ADHD.

> Suppose that of people with ADHD, 50% of them realize they have ADHD like symptoms and go to a psychiatrist to get checked out.

> Suppose that of people without ADHD, 10% of them falsely believe they have ADHD and also go to a psychiatrist to get checked out.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by Maven911 on Friday October 19, 2018 @06:37PM (#18260600)
Try listening to a police scanner on broadcastify. I like the nypd bronx ones, its the sufficient level of quiet dead time with some action too.
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by TeMPOraL on Saturday October 20, 2018 @02:15AM (#18262009)
I tried listening to police bands on actual radio over where I live (in some places they don't encrypt their comms yet). Gave up after hearing way more PII than I was comfortable with.

There's a similar problem with taxi bands, though it's been improving over the years (in particular, the new wave of pay-through-app taxis helping). It used to be that drivers would read full card data aloud to transmit it to the base - in-the-clear.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by puranjay on Saturday October 20, 2018 @01:42AM (#18261934)
There are certain things I just can't do after a while. Like writing. I can't mentally bring up the energy to write after 4-5 hours.

But as soon as I switch to another task, such as coding, my mind lights up again.

Task switching should be incorporated into your routine if you find yourself getting bored by your work.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by bootsz on Friday October 19, 2018 @11:43AM (#18257512)
Love it, thanks for the reference. Things rings true with my experience as well.
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by TeMPOraL on Friday October 19, 2018 @11:58AM (#18257640)
The book is good in general, I recommend it. Reading it and thinking it over lowered my background anxiety level by a noticeable amount.
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by internet555 on Saturday October 20, 2018 @01:17PM (#18264257)
I don’t trust anything Americans will write on this topic as many I’ve met (am American with a father who loved “self-help”) believe completely delusional things about energy/motivation and ruin their health while doing damage to everyone around them from it
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by TeMPOraL on Sunday October 21, 2018 @09:52AM (#18267955)
We're talking Carnegie here. He created the self-help genre. And unlike what came after, his books are relatively bullshit-free.
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by apohn on Friday October 19, 2018 @09:58AM (#18256755)
>I don't think it's merely boredom alone. Being bored / doing nothing at home doesn't feel the same way.

At least for me, it's boredom combined with a lack of purpose. If you're doing something boring/mundane at home like doing the dishes, at least at the end of it you can see your sink is empty and the dishes are clean. It feels like there was some point to it.

At many companies it can really feel like you are just doing something because somebody told you do it and there's no other purpose in doing so. Sometimes you have no connection to the people using what you are building, and no idea if what you're doing is even really driving revenue or benefiting anybody.

If you're not learning and you're bored, the lack of purpose eats away at you slowly. Even if you build something that ultimately fails, if you can directly understand the cause of that failure you can learn something for the future. It can be harder to understand how what you did is related to success or failure at big companies.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by PascLeRasc on Friday October 19, 2018 @10:48AM (#18257067)
I think the washing dishes analogy is a great. I've made a rule for myself that I won't take a job working on something I wouldn't personally care about or use myself, no matter how nice the pay/work culture/benefits are.
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by have_faith on Friday October 19, 2018 @08:18AM (#18256142)
It's a strong feature of Attention Deficit Disorder as I understand it. Hyperfocus often comes hand in hand with extreme fatigue and brain fog in the presence of tasks that don't motivate enough, to the point that you can feel it physically.

I often get it myself, feeling like I can't physically write another line of code until I move onto one of my own projects, then I'm good to concentrate for another 6 hours. I have to work extremely hard to complete tasks that on the surface look very simple and involve solving no new problems. This also extends into my normal life, like cleaning a messy room.

Note: I haven't been diagnosed with ADD and am not suggesting anyone has it if they experience this, I've just looked into it a lot.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by pault on Friday October 19, 2018 @09:05AM (#18256413)
I have ADD (diagnosed) and this happens to me every day at work. Around three o'clock in the afternoon I get so sleepy I start to literally fall asleep at my desk, but if I go home I'm immediately refreshed and back to full capacity for another eight hours.
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by Viliam1234 on Saturday October 20, 2018 @07:51AM (#18262816)
Similar here. (I was never tested for ADD; maybe I should.) And the worst thing for me is having a meeting.

Work at least keeps me somewhat awake. Over years I have developed some coping strategies, for example when I feel sleepy I open a text file and start writing detailed notes about what I am currently doing and why. That way I can continue to work, because when I fall asleep for a moment and lose the current thread of thought, I just read what I wrote recently and continue. Also, the act of typing, and seeing changes on the screen help to keep me awake.

But once in a while we have a long meeting, often in dark-ish and not well ventilated place, and that is like feeding me sleep pills.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by vasilipupkin on Friday October 19, 2018 @09:55AM (#18256734)
I don't have ADD and it happens to me every day.
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by TeMPOraL on Friday October 19, 2018 @11:37AM (#18257457)
I tried to hint a doctor once to maybe test me for this, but she wouldn't give. I feel like adult ADD isn't yet recognized in my country as a legitimate thing.
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by fokov on Friday October 19, 2018 @12:19PM (#18257771)
Check your diet. This happened to me when I was consuming large amounts of carbs for breakfast and lunch. I switched to keto and noticed the tiredness went away in the afternoon and I didn't require 3+ cups of coffee in the morning. Basically I was crashing multiple times a day which was driving me to the point of falling asleep at work or behind the wheel.
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by rdeboo on Friday October 19, 2018 @08:01AM (#18256053)
"Boreout" is an established term, it's kind of the inverse of a burnout. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boreout
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by bootsz on Friday October 19, 2018 @09:17AM (#18256490)
Wow, nice. That's pretty much spot-on
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by not_real_acct on Friday October 19, 2018 @08:12PM (#18260973)
> I don't think it's merely boredom alone. Being bored / doing nothing at home doesn't feel the same way.

Back when I was in college, I used to go to raves and do drugs.

At some point, I started to chaperone my friends and I'd be the sober one, responsible for taking everyone home.

I noticed that there's definitely an "energy" that you feel in the room, even stone cold sober. Being surrounded by 2000 people who are high as a kite has a way of making you feel high... Even if you're stone cold sober.

I think there's something similar going on in offices. There's some kind of 'proximity effect' there.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by WorkLifeBalance on Friday October 19, 2018 @07:23AM (#18255848)
> Is there a name for this type of fatigue

Stress. (One of the smyptoms of)

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by bootsz on Friday October 19, 2018 @09:07AM (#18256426)
Is it? To me the situation in question seems like the complete opposite of stressful
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by frereubu on Friday October 19, 2018 @10:35AM (#18256978)
Yeah, this sounds like too _little_ stress to me. Imagine a bell curve with stress on the X axis and performance on the Y axis, and there's a sweet spot in the middle where you're getting enough of a kick to motivate you, but not so much that you're drowning.
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by bootsz on Friday October 19, 2018 @11:49AM (#18257572)
Yes. And I've personally found that the "sweet spot" in the middle is all too elusive.

In my career I think I've spent the majority of time at one extreme or the other. Feast or famine: overworked & stressed or underworked & depressed. When you can hit it just right in the middle, life is truly great. But rarely have I been able to sustain it for more than a couple months at a time. Let me know if you've found the secret :)

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by Aeolun on Friday October 19, 2018 @12:57PM (#18258078)
I call it ‘falling asleep when sitting in the backseat of a car syndrome’ the feelings are more or less the same to me.

Stuff happens around you, but you are not really a party to it, and you don’t have to be.

Same for really boring meetings. You just get slowly lulled to sleep.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by simonebrunozzi on Friday October 19, 2018 @06:55PM (#18260679)
I might be oversimplifying, but I have experienced it multiple times, and I simply call it "lack of purpose".
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by goldfeld on Saturday October 20, 2018 @12:34PM (#18264030)
Yes it's been for millenia understood as a place with awful stagnated energy, by many cultures.
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by dsajames on Friday October 19, 2018 @02:23PM (#18258813)
I've heard it called bore-out
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by 33a on Friday October 19, 2018 @06:23PM (#18260538)
Office air quality maybe?
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by anoncoward111 on Friday October 19, 2018 @07:46AM (#18255979)
Down here in real world land, I would be fired for voluntarily leaving my shift at any time.

I once had a manager tell me, "Show up or be fired. We will judge if you deserve to go home or not."

Yes, one should look for a better job elsewhere, and lately the economy has found more room for all of society's laborers regardless of vogue credentials.

However, I can't pay the bills with interviews, and often times I lose value through interviewing.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by lighthazard on Friday October 19, 2018 @07:53AM (#18256013)
This sentiment is typical of the general HN population - a disconnect on the average person. What job wouldn't fire you for leaving in the middle of the day? Most likely a job where OP has a lot of freedom, trust, and respect - something that isn't readily available everywhere else.
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by cbzoiav on Friday October 19, 2018 @08:32AM (#18256232)
On the flip side I think a lot of people are just scared to push the boundaries.

If you have a manager who values you you'll often find you can get away with a lot more than you expect as long as you are still a strong benefit to the team.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by coldtea on Friday October 19, 2018 @09:05AM (#18256416)
>What job wouldn't fire you for leaving in the middle of the day?

Many. Especially smaller shops in laxer countries.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by anoncoward111 on Friday October 19, 2018 @09:07AM (#18256433)
Willing to bet you that it's less than 50% of total shops, therefore less than the word "many".
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by jfk13 on Friday October 19, 2018 @09:18AM (#18256493)
"many" ≠ "most". There can perfectly well be "many" while still being fewer than half.
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by anoncoward111 on Friday October 19, 2018 @09:22AM (#18256521)
You're totally right, I messed up my English! It's too early.

There could be 1m of X and 100m of y, for example

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by coldtea on Friday October 19, 2018 @01:30PM (#18258350)
Probably, which why I said "many" and not "most".

It's not a thing in big faceless corporations, chains, etc, for example (though it can be a thing in places like Google, MS, etc, with the right manager).

But on small businesses (e.g. 2-20 people) it's not uncommon in certain countries (thinking of Southern Europe that I know of) to have an understanding when one needs to leave. There are also practices like "siesta" where places close for a few hours altogether and people have lunch etc.

I was also surprised to see the hours kept in french towns (not Paris, smaller, but still big ones) that e.g. shops opened casually at around 10am, many were closed at lunchtime, and reopened again later, etc.

I'm pretty sure this is the case elsewhere without the "protestant work ethic" (or Japan's version of the same, instilled after lots of humiliating defeats on the hands of the west), e.g. Africa, Latin America, and so on.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by anoncoward111 on Friday October 19, 2018 @08:05AM (#18256073)
Completely agree, and maybe we should strive for it. Lunch breaks, smoking breaks etc are already a thing. Employers let certain employees leave early to go take their kids to the doctor or etc.

But the reality is that most employers are far less friendly, to their own detriment of course... but only in the long term.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by delusional on Friday October 19, 2018 @09:40AM (#18256610)
I've just started my first developer job, and my team has the freedom to come and go when they please. As long as we put in the 36 hours a week, it's all good.
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by lighthazard on Friday October 19, 2018 @10:07AM (#18256808)
Sounds amazing, not even 40 hours! Not everyone has that luck. I've been in shops that required 8 - 6 since your lunch hour doesn't count. I've also been in shops where I WFH and have 40 hours requirement but no oversight in how I use it. It all depends on where you work - but I'd argue the average is not as friendly as yours.
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by pjc50 on Friday October 19, 2018 @10:25AM (#18256915)
If your job is sufficiently badly managed, they simply might not notice you leaving.
Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by coldtea on Friday October 19, 2018 @09:04AM (#18256408)
>Down here in real world land, I would be fired for voluntarily leaving my shift at any time.

Not in the "real world land". Just in the part of real world that you've managed to negotiate for yourself.

Others are more (and others less) lucky.

Re:Paul Buchheit on Joining Google, How to Become a Great En... by anoncoward111 on Friday October 19, 2018 @09:13AM (#18256460)
It's a euphemism for people who are being exploited or otherwise "have it hard in life."

Like, by definition, things which feel fake cannot be "real" in this sense of the word. Of course though, your reality and my reality are simultaneously happening at the same time.