News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by WorldMaker on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @06:50PM (#18180495)
I think digital asset law is a hugely under-explored issue. I think one of the biggest fights that currently is hugely emblematic of the overall problem and going to surprise a lot of people in the near-ish future: inheritance. Can you inherit your parents accounts if they pass? Could you play their PSN games and watch their Movies Anywhere movies?

Right now there's no protection for that. None of the major digital services directly support transferal of licenses and most of them directly forbid it in their terms of services.

GDPR got some pressure from some of the EU members to explore the issue and GDPR itself wound up punting the ball back to individual countries for now rather than wade into digital asset protections/inheritance.

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by ryandrake on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @07:54PM (#18180824)
This should not be a surprise to anyone who has been paying attention. Tech companies have conducted a sustained campaign to water down the notion of ownership to the point where it is meaningless and it’s impossible to truly own a digital good. You don’t own “your” software, you license it and that license can be revoked. You don’t own “your” Netflix account, your access to it is at Netflix’s pleasure. Most of you don’t even own “your” Email address, you are one account suspension away from losing it. Even self-hosters are dependent on the mercy of their domain name registrar ultimately.

I don’t know what the solution is. The free market obviously has no incentive to fix this. Users won’t vote with their wallet until they get burned and then it’s too late.

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by xvector on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @08:22PM (#18180947)
This is part of why I bought my own NAS. All my movies and TV are downloaded to the NAS before I view them. Once Lidarr has support for Spotify imports I’ll be hosting all of my own music too.

I can stream all this content too - the experience is not much different from Netflix or Spotify and the content is usually much higher quality (lossless audio and higher bitrate video). The experience is more private too - no analytics on what you watch, no one harvesting you for ads.

I feel so much secure truly “owning” my content than having it bound to some service that can disappear at any time, along with the content on it. I’ve lost countless songs and videos due to Netflix or a music service’a contract ending.

For data resilience and redundancy, just perform encrypted backups to your cloud service of choice.

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by conradev on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @08:43PM (#18181044)
> All my movies and TV are downloaded to the NAS before I view them

> I feel so much secure truly “owning” my content

Do you actually purchase the content? If so, where do you buy it from? Is it even possible to purchase DRM-free content from major studios online?

For music, I can purchase music DRM-free from the iTunes Store or Bandcamp and actually own it, which is awesome.

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by cocacola1 on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @08:57PM (#18181107)
I just rip my Blu-Rays and stream them through Plex.
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by gruez on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @09:43PM (#18181355)
considering nearly all commercial blu-rays are protected with AACS (which you have to bypass to rip), what you're doing violates the DMCA. also, there's a growing amount of content from streaming services (netfilx/prime originals) that's not available on blu-ray and is not trivial to rip.
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by shakna on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @10:21PM (#18181493)
However, many regions allow format shifting, which can overrule that particular part of the DMCA. Though the rules are, again, regional.
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by paulie_a on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @11:32PM (#18181747)
Who cares if it violates the dmca? And honestly it is simply easier to just pirate the content vs ripping it, there are literally no consequences. And yes it is trivial to rip from streaming services.
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by wolco on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @01:02AM (#18182091)
Be kind, rip and share where possible. The Dmca only applies in the US. The 2600 campaign against dmca feels like it was yesterday.

Netflix let's you download a lot of content. Great for when you aren't connected.

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by paulie_a on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @01:24AM (#18182202)
Even in the US, the dmca is irrelevant to individuals for the most part. You can outright throw the notices in the garbage without consequence. I've been doing that since it was passed. Some were legitimate violations, some were not. Either way the company wasted printing and postage.

Hell you can ignore DHS letters in some cases.

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by SmellyGeekBoy on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @04:54AM (#18183146)
Rip, yes, but share? Really?
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by robryk on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @05:54AM (#18183386)
Disclaimer: not a lawyer.

In some countries there are exceptions to copyright for non-software that allow making copies for use of friends.

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by jamespo on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @06:51AM (#18183636)
Which countries are those?
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by robryk on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @03:49PM (#18188264)
E.g. Poland

Reference: https://euipo.europa.eu/ohimportal/en/web/observatory/faqs-o...

I think this reference is partly inaccurate; I was under the impression that the legality of the original copy doesn't matter (and Polish Wikipedia seems to agree: https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dozwolony_u%C5%BCytek_prywatny...)

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by wolco on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @02:55PM (#18187831)
Sharing is a form of advertising. If you want to promote a company or product there is no better way then sharing.

I remember seeing a video where a company exec said that they want to sell there product but they also wanted everyone to be using there pirated copy vs another company's application.

Most people won't pirate because it involves work. The people who do sometimes are the trend setters who can encourage others to buy.

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by celticninja on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @03:32AM (#18182774)
DMCA only applies in the US, making copies of items you own for personal use is legal in the UK for example.
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by Mindwipe on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @06:06AM (#18183446)
No it isn't.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/17/high-court-q...

And even when it was, you weren't allowed to break encryption to do so.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140328/07561926719/uk-fi...

Indeed, in some cases even importing (i.e downloading from a foreign server) software to do so is a criminal offence in the UK and carries a potential prison sentence.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/section/296ZB

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by namanyayg on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @08:44PM (#18181050)
I am trying to set up my own such NAS, currently using Plex to manage movies & TV and for streaming on my PS4. Haven't figured out a solution for music and just use Spotify. Any software you can advise to help me create a better setup?
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by xvector on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @09:17PM (#18181205)
Movies: I use Radarr. Radarr searches public movie databases for movies, and then talks to another piece of software I use called Jackett to actually initiate the download. Jackett searches for and obtains torrents from your favorite (completely legal of course) trackers.

The end UI is super simple. Search for a movie. Click Add. The software takes case of the rest. It automatically downloads the movie and replaces it with a higher quality version when one is available.

TV: Switch out Radarr for Sonarr above.

Music: Still working on this, but set up an MPD server on the NAS and listen using an MPD client on mobile. A good client seems to be Rigelian for iOS.

All super easy to set up. All the software is dockerized (check the linuxserver docker repo for most of this) and secure to access - set up a VPN server on your NAS and use a client like Tunnelblick on Mac or OpenVPN on iOS to access it.

So now I can have lunch with my coworkers, and if we're talking about a movie that sounds interesting, I open up Radarr on my phone (it has a nice mobile web interface), search and click download. It'll be ready for viewing in all its Blu-Ray HDR10 7.1 surround-sound glory by the time I get home.

Some Docker images you might find useful:

1. https://hub.docker.com/r/linuxserver/sonarr/

2. https://hub.docker.com/r/linuxserver/radarr/

3. https://hub.docker.com/r/linuxserver/jackett/

4. https://hub.docker.com/r/haugene/transmission-openvpn/

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by SmellyGeekBoy on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @04:56AM (#18183160)
I'm surprised at all the recommendations for Plex here considering its subscription model. It's a good product but I recently switched to Kodi and it offers all of the functionality I need and then some. It doesn't seem to randomly lose access to my NAS like Plex did either.
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by 29083011397778 on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @03:22AM (#18182708)
I've been using Airsonic for music and podcasts, hosted on a headless Linux server. Supports caching, gapless playback,and more. DSub is a pretty solid client for android, with the Play Store version supporting Android auto and casting to chromecast. Everything's FOSS, too
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by ryandrake on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @08:52PM (#18181083)
I use a computer running FreeNAS with a shared NFS amount for the audio and video content. You can use SMB (Windows shares) too. I use a low powered set top box and a Mac Mini both running Kodi as clients. Works great.
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by WorldMaker on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @12:32PM (#18186437)
Why rent with Spotify? Amazon still has DRM-free MP3 sales (don't pay for a Music Subscription, buy albums), and Bandcamp, CD Baby, and Magnatune are even better places to shop.
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by Xunxi on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @06:39AM (#18183594)
There are other opensource projects with no mothership

https://github.com/streamaserver/streama

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by wrboyce on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @06:16AM (#18183483)
Just a minor thing, but I’m pretty certain Plex are performing all sorts of analysis on your usage.
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by will123195 on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @12:10AM (#18181891)
> I don’t know what the solution is.

Decentralize all the things.

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by gowld on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @09:43PM (#18181353)
If that's true then there's no need for legislation because the service contracts cover it. Law is only needed if the contracts are ambiguous.
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by foota on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @09:53PM (#18181407)
Only if the public likes the way that service contracts are working.
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by reaperducer on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @06:35AM (#18183563)
None of the major digital services directly support transferal of licenses and most of them directly forbid it in their terms of services.

Considering the amount of money that people sink into digital services, I’m surprised this hasn’t already been through the courts in the case of divorces.

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by WorldMaker on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @12:57PM (#18186728)
Anecdotally I've seen a lot of divorcees still using their ex's old Netflix account or similar. It probably hasn't made it yet to the list of things on the radar of Divorce Attorneys for the simple practical matter that it's currently easy enough to (continue to) share passwords, but yes I'm very surprised we've not yet seen a huge court battle over digital assets in a divorce or inheritance drama yet.
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by CobrastanJorji on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @07:10PM (#18180604)
It'd be lovely to see a return of the first sale doctrine, as well. We gave up the right to own a movie when we went to streaming. I want to be able to sell my stuff again. More importantly, I want Netflix to be able to offer streaming of everything they have the DVDs for.
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by dwighttk on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @07:31PM (#18180701)
>I want Netflix to be able to offer streaming of everything they have the DVDs for.

That is why it will never happen.

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by reymus on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @07:54PM (#18180825)
Could you explain?
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by dwighttk on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @08:16PM (#18180916)
The people who own streaming rights would go from having something that is worth money to something that is completely worthless.

Netflix is one of those companies so even they wouldn’t fight for it.

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by toast0 on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @08:08PM (#18180883)
Netflix has a right to rent physical discs, but streaming is different than lending. I would love for movies to have compulsory licensing like music does though.
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by Gaelan on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @01:18AM (#18182168)
> Netflix has a right to rent physical discs, but streaming is different than lending.

I’m curious about this. I mean it’s different in terms of implementation and law, but conceptually it’s pretty similar.

Side-note-thought-experiment: in places where it is legal to “pirate” content you own, could Netflix get around this by renting a DVD to you (but holding in in escrow for you at their location) then providing you streaming access to that DVD?

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by toast0 on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @01:58AM (#18182358)
Streaming in my mind is more like asking your friend to come over to watch a movie, than lending them the movie to watch themselves.

Exhibition rights are significantly different than private viewing rights.

At the end of the day, the results are roughly the same, one more person has seen the film. But there's a lot of subtlety in how that happens.

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by homero on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @02:44AM (#18182534)
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by s73v3r_ on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @08:08PM (#18180885)
You can't own the stream, but you can still buy the DVD, and first sale still applies there.
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by hrktb on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @02:37AM (#18182501)
Isn’t it currently akin to a library membership ? Or at least that’s how I would put it if I was a service owner.

You also won’t get irl memberships transfered by inheritance, so the debate will be short if it goes this way.

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by acjacobson on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @03:46AM (#18182846)
I think this line of argument works for something like a Netflix or Spotify account where you have a monthly fee for unlimited access. The problem OP is referencing is when you buy a specific movie or album on iTunes or Prime for instance. That doesn't seem so clear cut because while the license says one thing the consumer expects that they now 'own' the item forever.
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by hrktb on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @07:29AM (#18183815)
Yes, iTunes or Prime pages still show a 'buy' button which is confusing.

I think people understand it better nowadays though, as they get burned more and more with services that don't work on a specific device, or the service shuts down. Or more probably they cancel the monthly payment and all the stuff they 'owned' can't be watched anymore.

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by TeMPOraL on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @07:35AM (#18183833)
Or Steam.

All the games I have there should be inheritable. Also, I'd love to be able to put ones I don't play on sale. But that's obviously not going to happen.

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by thaumasiotes on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @08:14PM (#18180911)
One reason this issue isn't explored much is that it doesn't have much in the way of practical implications. You don't need permission from Movies Anywhere to inherit your parents' Movies Anywhere account -- as long as you learn the password, you can just use the account without bothering to notify Movies Anywhere of anything.
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by WorldMaker on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @12:42PM (#18186554)
Right, but this isn't protected anywhere. It's a fragile practicality. If you inherit that shared password do you inherit the right to recover it if you lose it again? Movies Anywhere is locked to a certain number of devices, do you have the right to unlock/remove old devices of the original account holder?

At one point I debated trying to build a system to help escrow digital asset things like passwords in Trust for the purposes of wills/digital estate planning/inheritance, but quickly realized the first major flaw of that is that as soon as you try to systematize it you immediately get into a fight over how much it violates various terms of service agreements forbidding account and password sharing entirely.

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by thaumasiotes on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @05:13PM (#18188955)
You're right, but I would still bet that the sheer ease of working around the issue stunts the development of formal legal approaches to it.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'd rather have established practice dictate the law than the other way around.

Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by Gaelan on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @01:19AM (#18182173)
Until they find out and kill your account.
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by thaumasiotes on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @05:39AM (#18183319)
Find out how?
Re:Why I Bid $700 for a Stolen PSN Account by TeMPOraL on Wednesday October 10, 2018 @07:35AM (#18183837)
Through ubiquitous tracking.