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Re:Firefox: The Effect of Ad Blocking on User Engagement wit... by manigandham on Sunday September 30, 2018 @12:58PM (#18106994)
This has already been tried and tested for a decade. Blendle is arguably the best version of it today and Google has the Contributor program.

I put together a small team to create an adblocker/payment solution a few years ago that used a flat rate with payments proportional to engagement (combination of time and depth) per domain, similar to systems like Spotify (number of plays vs total). It failed because people fundamentally don't want to pay for website content this way. You can't just wave away things like "too many decisions" when that's a serious blocker, especially for something that the entire world has been trained to consider as free.

You need to change behavior first. Until then, ads (putting aside implementation and UX issues) are still the most fair, fast, and scalable payments system around.

Re:Firefox: The Effect of Ad Blocking on User Engagement wit... by jonathansampson on Sunday September 30, 2018 @07:12PM (#18108991)
Any system that relies on users paying out of their own pocket will definitely suffer low adoption. With Brave we setup a User Growth Pool of 300M Basic Attention Tokens. Each month we issue grants to users, which are in turn given to their favorite content creators and online properties (more than 20,000 verified to receive BAT, with more joining each day).

But the UGP won't last forever, and users (generally) aren't going to fork out their own cash to support their favorite websites. This is why we're working on Brave Ads in parallel to our browser efforts.

Brave Ads is an opt-in component which utilizes local machine-learning (operating on browser history) to select ads in a non-leaky manner. With matching and more taking place on the user's device, the system is simplified, leading to less fraud and abuse.

What's most exciting about the simplified model proposed by Brave Ads is the ability to share revenues with the user themselves (as much as 70% of ad revenue goes to the user). When you reform ads to the point that they aren't collecting information or monitoring your activity online, and are instead loading quickly, respecting your privacy, and [paying you for your attention], you make the entire system more appealing.

Any Attention Tokens earned by users can go into supporting their favorite websites and/or content creators. This reduces/eliminates the burden on the user to fund their wallets themselves.

Re:Firefox: The Effect of Ad Blocking on User Engagement wit... by manigandham on Monday October 01, 2018 @12:29PM (#18114214)
The pay users to see ads thing has been going around in ad circles for a long time, but seems to be fundamentally misplaced. Advertisers at that point are paying more than they need to (to get the message to the user) and the results will be skewed (by people who are trying to make money) resulting in declining and inefficient performance. It also means the advertiser is trying to pay the user and hopefully get them to pay them back in return by purchasing their product, which leads to a broken cycle.
Re:Firefox: The Effect of Ad Blocking on User Engagement wit... by jonathansampson on Monday October 01, 2018 @04:18PM (#18116465)
Paying uses to see ads isn't the solution in and of itself; an increasing number of users are opting out of ads for safety reasons. Others for aesthetic reasons. The solution is multi-fold, and we realize this.

Brave's model creates a better system (consent-based) which protects the user's data (on their device, with no leaking), cuts out complexity (which reduces fraud and middle-men), and in turn is able to put lost revenue back in the hands of publishers. Beyond this, Brave is able to bring the user into the fold, as their attention is the commodity being bought.

There have been some exciting developments in this space before us, but none that stuck. While we laud those who came before us, we understand that the problem was never fully tackled. That's what we are doing with Brave.

Re:Firefox: The Effect of Ad Blocking on User Engagement wit... by singularity2001 on Sunday September 30, 2018 @01:03PM (#18107021)
It has to be done by browser vendors, otherwise it will not be adopted.
Re:Firefox: The Effect of Ad Blocking on User Engagement wit... by manigandham on Sunday September 30, 2018 @01:06PM (#18107039)
It's not about browsers or tech, the extensions were universally available with a single click on modern browsers.
Re:Firefox: The Effect of Ad Blocking on User Engagement wit... by majewsky on Sunday September 30, 2018 @01:28PM (#18107169)
Extensions are very much not single-click:

1. Locate and open Addons screen (~2-3 clicks in the browser menu).

2. Locate and click "Get more addons" (1 click).

3. Wait for store page to open, search for desired extension. (Around a dozen keypresses for average-length extension name.)

4. Locate and click "Install" (1 click).

5. Confirm modal dialogs for installation and permissions (1-2 clicks).

That's nowhere near one-click and even if it were a one-click operation, 90% of users don't even know they would want to do that click.

Re:Firefox: The Effect of Ad Blocking on User Engagement wit... by manigandham on Sunday September 30, 2018 @07:50PM (#18109106)
People weren't searching for this (why would they?). They were linked directly to the extension on participating sites, which does install in 1 click. https://developer.chrome.com/webstore/inline_installation

We also did plenty of other marketing and onboarding to get users interested, it wasn't just slapping together an extension and calling it done. 99% of the friction came from people not wanting to pay for content, not the technical workings.

Re:Firefox: The Effect of Ad Blocking on User Engagement wit... by Kiro on Sunday September 30, 2018 @01:19PM (#18107123)
Doesn't matter. It needs to be an integral part of the browser.
Re:Firefox: The Effect of Ad Blocking on User Engagement wit... by manigandham on Sunday September 30, 2018 @02:47PM (#18107666)
Ok, do you have an argument on why you think it doesn't matter? We actually did the work and these are the results.

People are not going to start signing up payments into their browsers without some kind of onboarding. An extension installation was the most trivial part of this process compared to actually explaining and convincing them to pay.

Re:Firefox: The Effect of Ad Blocking on User Engagement wit... by jacquesm on Sunday September 30, 2018 @02:31PM (#18107559)
Is Blendle making money?
Re:Firefox: The Effect of Ad Blocking on User Engagement wit... by manigandham on Sunday September 30, 2018 @02:49PM (#18107678)
It is not profitable as of early this year. They are attempting to expand internationally and are still under 1M users.