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Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by nardi on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @11:13AM (#18066960)
No one actually believes this, including you. You may say you do, and even think you do, but you don’t. Everyone acts as if they and others around them possess free will. We act that way because that’s what we believe.

Honestly, I don’t think we understand enough about consciousness and how it arises from physical brains/bodies to make such an extraordinary claim like “there is no free will,” when the entire history of human thought and philosophy presupposes that there is.

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by ajuc on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @11:42AM (#18067318)
> We act that way because that’s what we believe.

Don't assume we have a free will when debating if we do :)

If we don't have a free will, then the fact that we believe in free will is irrelevant, and you cannot deduce that we believe in it from the fact that we act as if we believed in it.

Free will is most probably a quirk of language, an answer to a misleading question based on wrong assumptions. There are no difference in the state of universe no matter if there is free will or not.

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by bdamm on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @01:02PM (#18068153)
This philosophical line of thinking is without much basis. In certain Buddhist teachings is the idea that we really only have about 60% free will. That is, 40% of our actions are not something we ever could have done differently, but there's still room for plenty of actual choice. Personally this seems pretty high, but even 10% truly self-directed free will would still be astounding.

There's no scientific understanding of where exactly consciousness is rooted, so if you take that to assume it means there's no such thing as conscious choice, I conclude you are a fatalistic downer who I don't want to hang with.

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by ajuc on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @01:28PM (#18068435)
> This philosophical line of thinking is without much basis.

It has exactly as much basis as the alternatives, explains the world just as well, gives the exact same predictions, but needs less assumptions.

BTW - why is lack of free will a downer? I perceive is as neutral.

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by breischl on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @02:17PM (#18068969)
>BTW - why is lack of free will a downer? I perceive is as neutral.

Not the GP, but lack of free will implies that people have no agency over their actions, and hence can't really take pride in anything they've accomplished. They're just squishy robots following their programming and lying to themselves about why they do the things they do.

Or at least that's one depressing way to interpret it.

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by lisper on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @11:39AM (#18067283)
> No one actually believes this, including you.

I'm pretty sure that I'm in a better position to know what I actually believe than you are, and I'm telling you, I really do believe this. There are only three possibilities: either free will is an illusion, or dualism is true, or consciousness is the result of unknown new physics. The first is by far the most likely from a scientific point of view, and the evidence for it is actually pretty overwhelming.

But just because it's an illusion doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't live your life as if it were real. It's a very compelling illusion as long as you don't know how the trick is done, and so far, we don't.

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by TheOtherHobbes on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @12:35PM (#18067854)
I don't think the evidence is overwhelming at all.

Free will isn't an illusion so much as a misleading oversimplification of a complex concept.

The traditional philosophical notion of free will assumes a kind of perfectly rational Platonic ideal of a thinking human who carefully weighs all future options before acting.

This is clearly nonsense, and should have been called out as nonsense much earlier in history.

In reality free will is a mash-up of all kinds of influences - rationality, misguided belief, instinct, genetics influencing brain structure and hormonal balance, culture, previous experience - in varying proportions.

They add up to a kind of meta-freedom - not necessarily rational, but not particularly easy to predict or control with any precision.

Your sense of self isn't aware of these influences, but that won't stop you acting with some form of independent agency - and that's still true even if there's a gap between your conscious model of your motivations, and the soup of real motivations that drives you.

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by lisper on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @12:47PM (#18068002)
I actually agree with most of what you say here. This is more about semantics than science. But I would put this differently:

> that's still true even if there's a gap between your conscious model of your motivations, and the soup of real motivations that drives you.

I would say it's true because there is a gap, not "even if".

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by pavel_lishin on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @11:46AM (#18067354)
I think what _nardi_ is trying to say is that there's no functional difference between having free will, and acting as if you do.

What decisions do you make differently with your knowledge that free will is an illusion? What choices do you make differently?

(fwiw, I agree with you; I just think it doesn't particularly matter now.)

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by sutterbomb on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @02:34PM (#18069131)
Well your ethics should shift considerably. Retributive justice is morally repugnant for someone who does not believe in absolute free will.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by jhayward on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @03:03PM (#18069390)
+1. The moral basis for much of our societal rules and behaviors is unsound if free will is incompatible with biology. We in the US do so many things based on Puritan moral views that are so very harmful and counterproductive to our goals, based on an incorrect understanding of how the world works.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by toasterlovin on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @03:02PM (#18069386)
The existence of punishment changes the inputs to the system and, thus, changes the outputs of the system. The system in this case being the mind and it's output being behavior.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by sutterbomb on Wednesday September 26, 2018 @09:28AM (#18075672)
Right which is why I specifically said retributive justice. Other penal forms may still be morally justified for the sake of the “system” as it were.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by petyrbaelish on Wednesday September 26, 2018 @05:04AM (#18074106)
But the very existence of ethics is in danger in absence of free will. Existence : as in, whom do you blame for hanging the terrorist ? The lawyers, judges, jury, witnesses did not have free well : so it was inevitable that the terrorist be hanged.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by lisper on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @12:30PM (#18067803)
> What decisions do you make differently with your knowledge that free will is an illusion? What choices do you make differently?

Interestingly, my belief in the illusory nature of free will has had a huge impact on my life. I'm a much more laid-back person than I used to be. I don't stress out so much over making mistakes. It has also helped me in a lot of practical aspects of my life. For example, it has helped me lose weight. I think about my desire to eat as my brain playing a sort of a trick on me, and that makes it easier for me to "decide" not to give in to the craving. I treat the part of me that wants to eat the cookie as a separate entity from "me" that just happens to reside in the same brain, and I interact with it through internal dialogs like I would a small child. It sounds weird, but it works, at least for me. I'm almost down to the same weight I was in college (and I'm 54).

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by circlefavshape on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @01:15PM (#18068287)
Erm ... it seems to me that if there was no free will then your beliefs couldn't have any actual consequences at all, they and your cookie cravings are just different aspects of the unfolding of the universe
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by selestify on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @01:34PM (#18068514)
His beliefs are also a part of the unfolding of the universe, and as such his beliefs also have consequences even if he has no control over what he actually believes.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by mythrwy on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @01:21PM (#18068351)
Dockerized micro-services for the self!
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by ianmcgowan on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @07:38PM (#18071482)
It's a throwaway comment, but perhaps (as with most problems of philosophy) the problem is really semantic? What does "will" really mean, in free will? It imagines a little person sitting in my head piloting my body. It seems equally plausible that there is no central "me", I'm just a competing mess of programs running in my brain (at varying levels of abstraction), with the gut biome being the BIOS. There may be a hypervisor in there somewhere, but that's the most you can hope for in terms of rational direction. Everything runs in parallel, and the part I think of as "me" rationalizes decisions after the fact.

Horizontal gene transfer? A literal virus that changes who you are. It's interesting to think that by going paleo or vegan you can perhaps become another "person"...

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by jchrisa on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @11:44AM (#18067341)
You can be a monist and still believe in physics and free-will. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomalous_monism
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by jonathanstrange on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @12:13PM (#18067638)
> The first is by far the most likely from a scientific point of view, and the evidence for it is actually pretty overwhelming.

Not really, few physicists have tried to explain consciousness - Roger Penrose being a notable exception - and no physicist has ever sufficiently explained how artifacts like the complete works of Shakespeare come about. They seem to have been invented by Shakespeare but if Shakespeare had no free will to invent them, then were did they come from? While we're at it, where does the continuum and the mathematical structures between real numbers come from? Are real numbers even physically possible? I've read a paper once that argued that they cannot be physically realized, because that would violate the laws of thermodynamics (and a few others, too). What about the rest of mathematics like perfect squares or functions that cannot be computed? Are these illusions?

In a nutshell, there is a whole lot that physics cannot explain, including all of human culture. That's the gist of Popper's three worlds argument. Physicists surely claim that the physical world is closed, but they haven't provided any arguments that go much beyond "human culture is super complex but we believe we could in principle explain it somehow with our theories".

Now Popper argued for some not too plausible dualism, but the central negative part of his argument still stands.

As for explanations, I agree that not many good ones are on the table and maybe the Philosophy of Mind confuses more than it clarifies. My personal favorite speculative theory is a rare form of computationalism, namely the position that some computations might have consciousness as an emergent property when they run on a suitable physical device, and that in theory we could even be able to determine which class of computations these are by mere analytical insight, provided we have the proper conceptual tools. Computationalism is not very popular in philosophy, though.

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by _Schizotypy on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @12:59PM (#18068125)
I don't understand why we would look to physics when consciousness is a product of neurobiology. Yes the principles of chemistry are physical principles and biology is based around chemistry, but that doesn't mean looking at the behavior of particles can explain the entire system besides some minor insight on how parts of it physically interact.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by pegasus on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @12:17PM (#18067683)
Roger Penrose begs to differ. See "Shadows of the Mind", where he argues for the third option in your list. Based on scientific evidence, of course.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by asey on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @12:43PM (#18067960)
I'd argue that there are more than three possibilities. One addition, for example, is that the concept of free will is under-defined and an intelligible conversation can't be had about it. I encourage you to define free will without resorting to synonyms like volition, free choice, and the likes.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by mythrwy on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @01:19PM (#18068332)
In order to define "free will" as in "I have free will" or "We have free will" first we have to define who "I" or "We" is and I'm not sure we have accurately done that yet.

Who (or more precisely what component of "us") is it exactly is it that has free will? The ethereal eternal soul (which is that anything but an imagined property of conscious beings)? The meat abacus in our heads? the nerves in our arms?

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by lisper on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @02:03PM (#18068843)
Notice that in my OP I was actually very careful to talk about the perception of free will, and not free will itself.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by AngryData on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @01:26PM (#18068416)
I believe it. Free will is an illusion, humans are just biological automatons, along with every other animal. Thinking you have free will doesn't change whether or not you actually have free will. Just as someone believing they are intelligent doesn't make them intelligent.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by bitL on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @01:32PM (#18068481)
Experiment: you decide to do something and keep doing necessary things, putting all distractions aside, until you get there. Was that decision and perseverance towards the goal given to you by some viral DNA mutation, or is there a chance there might be some free will in you?
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by subcosmos on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @11:16AM (#18066984)
They don't actually believe it. Deterministic processes in their brain are making them THINK they believe it.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by pjc50 on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @11:25AM (#18067097)
The point is that this is a distinction without a (usable) difference. "Free will" is an ill-conditioned question that comes from dualist assumptions.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by WilliamEdward on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @11:21AM (#18067053)
There's literally no way to know whether this is true or not, so it's not worth discussing as if any one of us knows what the truth is. If you feel like you have free will, that's important. If you feel like you don't, oh well, but don't let your beliefs interfere with other people's choices (or their deterministic actions, in this case).
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by buboard on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @11:20AM (#18067033)
> as if they and others around them possess free will.

How would we "act as if they don't" ?

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by carapace on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @11:57AM (#18067473)
I believe that the vast majority of people are effectively mechanical. Very few people notice and remember themselves. Maybe one in 10^6 or fewer.

There's a old Buddhist story, you're in a small boat on a lake in a thick fog, you can barely see beyond your boat. Out of the fog comes another boat that crashes into yours, and you start to yell at the other boater to be careful, but a break in the fog reveals that no one is in the boat. You've been yelling at nothing.

For me, either the other person is present, and therefore harmless, or they are absent, and therefore blameless. In any event, it's wrong to get upset or angry. However, one should take steps to prevent damage to boats.

Two things: it's been shown that, by the time you consciously decide to act, your neurons have already been increasing in activity for ~100ms. In other words, it's been scientifically shown that our conscious experience of "free will" is preceded by unconscious nervous activity. Make of that what you will. ;-) Pun intended.

Second, when you observe a person while remembering yourself it affects them. I've seen burly lads transform into scared little boys under a mindful gaze. When you're present people don't punch you.

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by Ygg2 on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @11:24AM (#18067095)
If I punch you, will you blame me?
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by lisper on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @11:43AM (#18067335)
That depends. Do you suffer from schizophrenia? Did I provoke you? Was it an accident? There are a lot of circumstances under which I would not blame you.

If you punched me without provocation, with no evidence of mental illness, and did it "deliberately" [1] then I will "blame" you because that's the only way I know of to defend myself against future attacks.

[1] Note that "deliberately" in a world without free will just means "as a result of unknown causes inside your brain". The more we learn about how the brain works, the fewer pathological behaviors can be labeled "deliberate". "Free will" is a sort of "god-of-the-gaps" if neuroscience.

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by buckminster on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @11:30AM (#18067176)
I don't blame you because you had a choice. I blame you to discourage future punches.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by tudelo on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @11:39AM (#18067293)
That seems absurd.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by buckminster on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @11:48AM (#18067390)
How so? You don't need free will to adapt to feedback.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by catawbasam on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @01:48PM (#18068674)
So if you believed I punched you deliberately, but also believed no action of yours would keep me from punching you again, does that mean you would do nothing?

Even if I called you a coward?

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by mmatear on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @05:27PM (#18070629)
Then do it you wont unless your DNA thinks the reward you get for validating your assumptions is greater then the consequences of your actions. Likewise for the person your debating. That's why internet debates are so much worse than in person way less consequence for your actions.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by buckminster on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @06:26PM (#18071076)
If you look at people who are actually in that unlikely position (e.g. prisoners, slaves) then typically they do in fact do nothing.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by buboard on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @02:49PM (#18069261)
Indeed i will, but now you move the goalpost to the definition of "blame". Even if both of us are deterministic zombies who just care for our self-preservation, i would create a mental note ("blame") for me to find ways to discourage your behavior. Somewhere along those lines the concept of blame is born, but one could claim that it is a deterministic mental variable. Indeed i would blame anything that hits me as if it had agency, if i can't see it. Like xerxes lashing the waves, i could be angry at a rock for falling on my face (and indeed anger follows pain), it's just that i know that fighting back at the rock is no benefit to me.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by ajuc on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @11:45AM (#18067351)
Of course. I have no choice, remember?
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by Ygg2 on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @12:02PM (#18067535)
So you are implicitly presuming free will, based on your behavior.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by ajuc on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @12:07PM (#18067585)
Why? If I have a free will then I blame you because I choose to.

If I don't have a free will then I blame you because that's how my brain is programmed (which is BTW most probably caused by optimization of social behavior by evolution - it's better for our genes if we punish violent behavior, so that's how our brains are constructed). There's no need to assume free will.

There's no difference in behavior that depends on existence of free will.

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by Ygg2 on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @12:23PM (#18067730)
> There's no difference in behavior that depends on existence of free will.

Ah, but you are forgetting a major part of how brain works. Brain models both our own and others behavior. If your brain knows you don't have free will and I don't have free will, it will not fault me for not having a thing I am supposed to not be having.

If it doesn't have free will, brain can assign a response, but not blame. You can't have the notion of blame if you don't have a concept of free will. Same way you can't express certain colors, if you lack the words for it.

Fun fact, when people read about not having free will, they are more likely to lie/cheat on a test. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-...

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by ajuc on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @12:47PM (#18068006)
> If your brain knows you don't have free will and I don't have free will, it will not fault me for not having a thing I am supposed to not be having.

Punishment decreases the odds of repeated offence. It doesn't matter if it's because you have free will, or simply because you learnt not to do that because your internal neural network were taught not to do that or it hurts.

I'm pretty sure I can make a simulation with agents punishing each other. Doesn't mean they have a free will.

> You can't have the notion of blame if you don't have a concept of free will

I have a notion of free will. I just don't believe it's true. I can model beliefs of Muslims without believing in Allah.

> Same way you can't express certain colors, if you lack the words for it.

Bad example. I can express any color I can see with 3 real numbers. There's infinitely many of them and my vocabulary is finite.

> Fun fact, when people read about not having free will, they are more likely to lie/cheat on a test.

And when they drink they are more likely to do stuff they later regret. Environment influences the brain in many ways. Doesn't mean there is a free will.

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by Ygg2 on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @08:29PM (#18071684)
> Punishment decreases the odds of repeated offence.

So does running away. However, the issue here is existence of blame.

> I can model beliefs of Muslims without believing in Allah.

Yeah, but you can't model belief without knowing what believing in something entails. Same thing with my example. You model behavior of others based on your experience. You think others have free will because you believe you do. Or not.

My own position is that while free will might or might not be illusion, it's a useful one. Like justice, mercy or love - that sort of thing.

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by redwards510 on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @02:02PM (#18068836)
I don't believe in free will because of a simple thought experiment. Maybe someone with a background in ML can chime in.

Imagine we could perfectly map all your brain's neural connections at an instant in time to software. This is not out of the realm of possibility in the future, right? Now imagine we "asked" that model to make a decision. Any decision. Wouldn't that frozen-in-time model give the same answer every time?

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by sutterbomb on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @02:38PM (#18069168)
I use the same line of thought, but without any modeling. Suppose you could go back in time to a major decision in your life and make it over. But you arrive at that same point in time, with all of the same information you had, no new information about the future, with all of the same hormonal and biochemistry etc. Is there any way you could have chosen differently than what you did? I don't see how. Unless you want to introduce randomness, but that's also not choice.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by Iolaum on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @02:14PM (#18068940)
This is not possible because of quantum mechanics. You cannot know the exact location and speed of particles in your brain and therefore cannot build a deterministic model to predict its behavior.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by yesenadam on Wednesday September 26, 2018 @07:46AM (#18074894)
I think chaos theory suffices to establish your second sentence, without needing to bring in quantum mechanics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by Iolaum on Friday September 28, 2018 @04:02PM (#18096578)
Chaos theory is enough if you accept imperfect measurements, which would result in small changes in initial conditions. But you need quantum mechanics to prove that you cannot have perfect measurements of all the quantities involved in the evolution of a system.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by javajammer on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @02:19PM (#18068991)
It might give the same answer, but I'm not concluding much from the thought-experiment. The model takes as input its environment, which includes its past decisions. If you pose the same question to it twice, it might choose to do something different the second time just because it weighs "whimsy" as a positive. How random is its RNG? Can it tell? What would it do differently if it knew the answer to these questions?
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by magicalhippo on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @03:12PM (#18069475)
And what if it did?

For me, the most important aspect of free will is to be able to predict the outcomes and consequences of my choices, use that as feedback to select which decision to make.

Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by hathawsh on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @12:37PM (#18067883)
For me, acting as if people possess free will is a conscious decision. When I'm tired, I sometimes slip into my natural mode of thinking of everyone as automatons. I have to choose to believe that people are conscious. I have to remind myself that people are not merely robots, or even if they are, it's self-destructive if I think of them as robots.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by desiderantes on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @12:47PM (#18067996)
You didn't choose to believe, because you don't have free will, remember?
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by hathawsh on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @12:58PM (#18068113)
If there is no free will, then the word "choose" is not a special word that implies consciousness. The word "choose" simply means particles flow one direction instead of another due to some combination of other particle flows. Therefore, whether I have free will or not, yes I did choose to believe.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by Kapow on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @01:07PM (#18068214)
You think everyone else can't make conscious decisions, but you can? That sounds like solipsism, or just a lack of empathy.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by hathawsh on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @01:18PM (#18068325)
Yes, there is a part of me that seems solipsistic. There is also another part that sees myself as an automaton along with everyone else. And there is yet another who reasons that at some level of sophistication, it's impossible to distinguish between automatons and beings with free will; I no longer care whether I have free will and rejoice in living along with everyone else.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by WalterSear on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @12:44PM (#18067966)
Consciousness is an abstraction layer, rather than a illusion.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by mattigames on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @01:41PM (#18068594)
The concept of free-will is so preposterous, baseless like souls or ghosts; because lack of understanding how the brain works doesn't make what happens inside it more metaphysical.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by circlefavshape on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @01:23PM (#18068375)
Free will is a subjective experience we all have, no matter what we believe. Talking about it in terms of Physics is kinda barking up the wrong tree afaics
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by zkomp on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @02:58PM (#18069353)
Not really the entire history of human thought; the actual philosophers who thought differently were harshly persecuted, their books burned, or if they saw it coming did not even dare to publish their true thoughts...
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by toasterlovin on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @02:58PM (#18069349)
Whether or not you believe something is orthogonal to whether or not it is true.
Re:Evidence that addictive behaviors have links with ancient... by MrEfficiency on Tuesday September 25, 2018 @02:05PM (#18068873)
>No one actually believes this, including you

I believe it.

My brain is a collection of experiences and my body is a chemical reaction.