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Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by hfdgiutdryg on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @09:23AM (#17968391)
Microsoft Word is a more complex piece of software that delivers more value to more businesses and individuals than (virtually?) anything that anyone on this site has ever made.

It amazes me how little people value other people's work on this site.

Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by smolder on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @09:39AM (#17968586)
You are right, Word is impressive in the same way a big factory that assembles complicated products is impressive. It's an impressive amount of work, it's complex, and it gets a lot done. But looking in the factory, you can see some things it does in house that are better left to other facilities, some machinery that is overcomplicated or inefficient, it pollutes more than it needs to, etc. But we need to hit those production targets. Changing things up would be expensive, so on we go... providing value to those who depend on it.
Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by whateveruser on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @09:45AM (#17968653)
It doesn't matter how much value Word delivers when Libreoffice Writer delivers more, for less (zero) cost. For most people, Writer is enough, and so they won't buy Word. Its just free market and competition working the way it should.
Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by hfdgiutdryg on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @10:02AM (#17968846)
Libre can't even reliably update Word documents, which is literally the only thing I ever asked if it. I don't think MS is threatened by it, and I have no idea why you're going off on a free market tangent.
Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by LamaOfRuin on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @10:32AM (#17969138)
Yes, this is a damning indictment of Microsoft's file formats.
Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by pjmlp on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @10:54AM (#17969372)
Somehow the openess of graphic formats does not make Gimp a better proposition than Photoshop, specially when handling color workflows on digital agencies.
Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by Dylan16807 on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @03:44PM (#17972437)
An image format mostly stores the end result of what you made.

An office document format is basically source code.

That's why the openness of a graphic format doesn't matter, but clear specifications on how to interpret an office document make an enormous difference.

Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by pjmlp on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @03:57PM (#17972584)
Somehow you missed the point that openness of graphic formats has not helped to make Gimp better than Photoshop, likewise even if Office formats were 100% open, Libre Office features wouldn't match Word.
Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by Dylan16807 on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @06:45PM (#17974191)
I didn't miss the point. I'm arguing that the two kinds of format are completely different. A graphics format is a side-effect of the actual editing, an afterthought. With an office document, the format itself is the core of the experience.
Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by LamaOfRuin on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @05:10PM (#17973364)
No, but it would allow LibreOffice to work with them cleanly which was the criticism I replied to (and probably allow Word to break itself less often or have 3-4 fewer implementations embedded in itself).
Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by innocenat on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @11:22AM (#17969658)
็Really? I have had more OpenOffice crash/freeze on me in 2 years of using it (on Linux) than MS Office for over 10 years (including 2 years running in VM)

I would seriously fork money over if MS would ever build Linux version.

Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by checkyoursudo on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @01:44PM (#17971153)
People have different experiences, right?

I have never lost a document in LibreOffice, Vim/gvim, AbiWord, WordPerfect (long time ago), or OOO.

I lost a ton of documents, sometimes to the cost of many thousands of dollars, in Word. (Disclaimer: haven't used word since like 2010 or so)

People get burned, and thus jaded, by lots of different, sometimes opposing or contradictory, experiences.

Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by pjmlp on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @09:51AM (#17968733)
Ah the lack of experience with Word features...
Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by checkyoursudo on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @01:29PM (#17971041)
The last MS Office I paid for was 2007. The last time I used Word 2007 was 2010 or 2011 maybe. I am 100% lacking in any experience in Word features, at least since then, and I hardly remember anything from Word 2007.

As a lawyer, I deal with other people's Word products all day every day. What Word features am I missing out on? I am genuinely curious and not trying to be snarky in any way.

Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by type0 on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @01:51PM (#17971218)
> What Word features am I missing out on?

All those pesky macros that would allow your computer to be infected

Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by pjmlp on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @02:03PM (#17971360)
You mean like those curl url | sh advices?
Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by checkyoursudo on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @02:32PM (#17971633)
You can choose to install malware on any system you control, or be tricked into doing so.
Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by pjmlp on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @02:59PM (#17971937)
Since around 2007 that those pesky macros only run if the user takes the same effort as typing curl | sh.
Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by Dylan16807 on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @03:48PM (#17972485)
"Do you want your document to work yes/no?" is a lot more likely to trick people than asking them to input a console command.
Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by pjmlp on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @04:00PM (#17972621)
The actual message asks if the user wants to enable macros, while stating it is dangerous to enable them for unknown documents.

Not seen Word in a while I guess.

Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by _emacsomancer_ on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @09:44AM (#17968640)
Microsoft Word (and word processors more generally) are horrible environments for creating any sort of content in. They're great for bureaucrats who like to "do lots of work" without producing anything of use.

I cringe every time I have to deal with a Word file.

Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by hfdgiutdryg on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @10:04AM (#17968871)
It sounds like you aren't very good at using Word. Imagine if someone said "I cringe every time I have to deal with a command line."
Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by _emacsomancer_ on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @10:56AM (#17969396)
I used Word for a long time, and learned "advanced features". It just sucks compared to real content production software like LaTeX.
Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by rrix2 on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @01:51PM (#17971215)
> Imagine if someone said "I cringe every time I have to deal with a command line."

People do say this though. People have personal preferences for the software they have to use all day, and most of the time people don't agree on what that software is. And most of those decisions are driven by the type of work people do. I don't expect a lawyer or a business analyst to use command line interfaces, and I don't think they expect software engineers to code in Word...

Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by hfdgiutdryg on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @02:50PM (#17971825)
People do say this though

And the other people, who were discussing the command line, ignore them.

The point is that you can't really criticize something when your criticism seems to boil down to "I don't understand this".

And who said anything about writing code in Word? What are you on about?!

Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by _emacsomancer_ on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @10:49PM (#17975574)
Yes, but when I use the command line, it has absolutely no effect on other users who don't like the command line. When someone sends me a .docx, they've made a choice which affects someone else.
Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by ummonk on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @11:11AM (#17969552)
Well, a classic command line is a very poor interface to the computer. It's only good because every other interface is so bloated and indirect.
Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by hfdgiutdryg on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @02:52PM (#17971847)
A well-executed command line is a precise and efficient way to get work done. It is invaluable, and its value is unrelated to problems present in other interfaces.
Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by techntoke on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @11:14AM (#17969587)
I can use Word, but I prefer to use markup formats or LibreOffice. Why wouldn't I want a piece of bloat that doesn't even work on my OS natively?
Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by com2kid on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @12:05PM (#17970158)
I customized Word with a bunch of Macros, wrote a 300 page educational book in it. I had no issues and was quite productive. I may have been more irritated if I had needed to do a bunch of complicated layout work.

For the last year Word has actually supported LaTeX for math equations, see https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/murrays/2017/07/30/latex-ma...

But aside from that, Word is great for short and medium length documents, especially ones that need group editing. Put a Word file up on Sharepoint, and now there is user friendly change tracking and commenting.

I've written multiple technical specs in Word, it serves as a great way to collaborate, so long as everyone has bought into the ecosystem.

Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by type0 on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @01:49PM (#17971195)
> so long as everyone has bought into the ecosystem.

Well that's the problem isn't it, every potential collaborator who can't or won't buy it will be shunned.

Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by com2kid on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @04:04PM (#17972648)
If you are at a company that uses Sharepoint, everyone already has bought in.

The same argument can be made for any piece of software. People have to buy in, even free software requires taking time to learning it vs whatever existing workflow is in use (if any).

Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by tomc1985 on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @02:58PM (#17971921)
I disagree... for the purpose of editing documents from a nontechnical mindset, Word is fine.
Re:Microsoft intercepting Firefox, Chrome installation on Wi... by seabrookmx on Wednesday September 12, 2018 @07:25PM (#17974470)
Main point being nontechnical mindset.

OP points out LaTeX, but for non-technical and non-academic people, this is a non-starter. Word has an extremely low barrier to entry so it makes tons of sense for the general public and K-12 education markets.

There's a reason it's so popular and why LibreOffice and GSuite have emulated the bulk of it's feature set.