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Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by LeonM on Friday August 31, 2018 @07:32AM (#17884634)
Fascinating read!

Can this situation can be avoided if the loading bay has a cover/lid on top of the material?

As long as the loading bay is 'full' (or the top is movable to fit the cargo) the material won't be able to slosh around, thus preventing the situation described in the article.

Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by chillydawg on Friday August 31, 2018 @07:57AM (#17884775)
The usual solution, as with petrol tanks in cars and elsewhere, is to use baffles. It effectively turns one large tank into several smaller ones and stops the liquid from freely sloshing from one side to another. The sloshing causes problems non-linearly with size of tank, so reducing one tank into 4 or 8 has a huge impact on the risks of sloshing. The partitions/baffles are always vertical (although I expect aerospace baffles are a bit more fancy).
Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by gnode on Friday August 31, 2018 @09:28AM (#17885378)
I imagine a problem with that solution is that most of the time, the solid isn't behaving as a liquid. The partitions / baffles may complicate unloading, as you can't just pipe the solid out; a conveyor belt is typically used.
Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by MPSimmons on Friday August 31, 2018 @10:31AM (#17885877)
Can we intentionally liquifact the solid into a liquid?

Also, we can have articulated baffles that raise into place from below, cutting into the solid material.

I think this is a solvable problem.

Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by VLM on Friday August 31, 2018 @10:47AM (#17885996)
But, if the engineering and financial cost of "fixing" transport is higher than the cost of simply moving the bauxite processing plant to the bauxite instead of moving the bauxite to the plant...

Murphys Law is someone will put an aluminum smelter pot on a nuclear powered ship, during a storm the molten cryolite will slosh out of the pot freezing onto one side of the ship, sinking the ship, and we're right back to where we started.

Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by gnode on Friday August 31, 2018 @11:12AM (#17886200)
> articulated baffles that raise into place from below

From where below? My understanding is that the bottom of the tank is the hull.

Although possibly you could put baffles in place, tip the grain, then crane them out for unloading.

Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by donarb on Friday August 31, 2018 @02:26PM (#17887778)
Yanking the baffles out of the hold while the material is still there would be next to impossible. You have tons of weight pressing on them from all sides, not counting the weight of the baffle itself.
Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by MPSimmons on Friday August 31, 2018 @10:29AM (#17885855)
Agreed. I read this and thought, "Oh my God, why not use baffles?"
Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by amelius on Friday August 31, 2018 @08:35AM (#17884983)
Yeah, but the original state of the material was solid. You can't compartmentalize a solid unless you break it.
Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by aunty_helen on Friday August 31, 2018 @08:40AM (#17885020)
Bauxite is pretty much red Australian dirt. It will be carted as small pebbles or a powder. If it was large solid pieces it wouldn't turn to liquefaction.
Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by jsjohnst on Friday August 31, 2018 @08:45AM (#17885066)
Read the article again. Yes, it’s a solid, but a solid more similar to sand or dirt than to a mountain or solid block of metal.
Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by winceschwab on Friday August 31, 2018 @08:43AM (#17885045)
It’s not a true liquid, but rather solid dust mixed with trace amounts of water. Drier than mud, but powder and rock that can shift in a fluid-like way.

It’s like an avalanche or rock slide.

Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by hfdgiutdryg on Friday August 31, 2018 @09:22AM (#17885329)
The article mentions moisture several times, as well as draining moisture during the trip. It also explains liquefaction in terms of water acting on the solid, whereas I always thought it was just about granularity.

From the article, it doesn't sound like it's about trace amounts of water at all. It sounds like water is somehow involved in the loading process...?

Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by Retric on Friday August 31, 2018 @09:57AM (#17885587)
The liquid is simply acting as a lubricant. So, it takes a very small amount to make a large difference. Really it's less soggy than simply damp.
Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by hfdgiutdryg on Friday August 31, 2018 @03:04PM (#17888001)
So why do they mention draining?
Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by NegativeLatency on Friday August 31, 2018 @03:14PM (#17888061)
Or large parts of SF during an earthquake.
Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by maffydub on Friday August 31, 2018 @08:39AM (#17885010)
It was solid, but granular - the article gives the example of crushed ore and mineral sands - so it's already broken up.
Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by Steltek on Friday August 31, 2018 @09:22AM (#17885326)
What about an inflatable airbag that rests on top of the cargo? That could keep the cargo from shifting and would be very quick to setup at the end of loading the ship, as there would be no messing with plates or tie downs.
Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by LeonM on Friday August 31, 2018 @10:39AM (#17885938)
That airbag would still allow the cargo underneath to shift. It's the same a the current situation (air), but with a bag around it ;-)

I guess you need something solid, and fixed to the boat, so there is nowhere for the material to go.

Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by logfromblammo on Friday August 31, 2018 @02:38PM (#17887835)
Friction is not the same between a canvas layer and an air layer.

As an experiment, fill a bowl with sand. Level the sand with a scree bar. Tilt it until you notice sand shifting, and note the angle of tilt.

Now level the bowl and put an inflatable bag on top. Tilt until you notice sand shifting and note the angle.

Further experiment: put a vacuum hose through the center of the bag, and suck air out of the bowl as the bag covers the top. Tilt again. If your bag can make a decent seal against the rim of the bowl, and you keep that vacuum pump running, you can almost flip the thing without shifting any sand.

Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by quirkot on Friday August 31, 2018 @08:30AM (#17884946)
This could be true only if the density of the material doesn't change. In this situation, though, it's the temporary compression of the cargo that causes the liquefaction
Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by LeonM on Friday August 31, 2018 @10:40AM (#17885943)
But if it has nowhere to move to (no air pocket in the cargo bay) then it wouldn't matter in what state the material is, right?
Re:Cargo ships that sink when their cargo suddenly liquefies by werdnapk on Friday August 31, 2018 @07:47AM (#17884727)
Even if a lid would work, I'd assume it would be too large and expensive to deal with. The lid would have to be rather heavy duty. As noted in the article, the solution needs to be cheap and relatively easy to deal with.