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Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by vvanders on Monday June 04, 2018 @06:07PM (#17233061)
Not everything that runs on OpenGL is a video game. Tons of applications out there that just won't have the budget to do a rewrite(and even fewer were probably setup with the right architecture if they were depending on OpenGL in the first place).
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by BurningCycles on Monday June 04, 2018 @10:40PM (#17234538)
Indeed, I directly thought of 3d applications like Blender, Maya, etc which use OpenGL.

It's a very weird move to me, even if the software in question will be kept compatible with Apple's Legacy OpenGL, these versions will be worse than their counterparts running on other platforms making use of new shiny OpenGL features.

It's like Apple is saying 'we don't care' to the 3d professional market, also doesn't Photoshop rely on OpenGL these days as well ?

Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by wlesieutre on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @01:02AM (#17235124)
After discontinuing AutoCAD for Mac in 1994 people begged for 18 years to get it back and now Apple says "eh, we didn't want that anyway."

I heard they have a WebAssembly/WebGL version now, betting that'll get wrapped up in a WebView and we can all pretend it's a native program still.

Speaking of WebGL, that's basically OpenGL ES 2.0, but I assume the implementation in WebKit is backed by Metal? What about other browsers like Firefox?

Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by rockdoe on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @08:26AM (#17236983)
Firefox uses OpenGL to implement OpenGL ES. It also uses OpenGL for hardware accelerated compositing.
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by sbuk on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @03:38PM (#17241285)
AutoCAD is a dead technology. Architects/Stuctural Engineers/MEP Engineers are moving to BIM platforms (Revit, ArchiCAD, etc)! Product/Automotive/Industrial design and engineering use PLM tools (Catia, SolidWorks, etc). Besides, AutoCAD didn’t/doesn’t need much graphics power at all. AFAIK it never really used OpenGL.
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by AstralStorm on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @03:25AM (#17235596)
Translating between these two is not particularly hard. (Similar to Vulkan backend for OpenGL)
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by ensiferum on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @03:55AM (#17235720)
It is. Keep in mind you have to transform the shaders too and make them safe so that they would not allow for undefined behaviour to happen.
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by ensiferum on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @03:53AM (#17235712)
LibANGLE
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by raverbashing on Monday June 04, 2018 @11:29PM (#17234766)
> Photoshop rely on OpenGL these days as well ?

Yes, though with Adobe's relationship with Apple they probably got all the handholding and resources to do the port to Metal.

Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by ctrl-j on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @12:11AM (#17234931)
I'm not sure about that. Or maybe Adobe just doesn't care. My 2017 Macbook Pro has horseshit graphical bugs in both Illustrator and Photoshop. I'm exclusively doing all my graphics work on my Windows 10 machine now (even though windows and my Wacom tablet do not play nice together.)
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by whywhywhywhy on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @05:49AM (#17236202)
I'm in the same boat, my so called Pro machine the USB-C 2017 MBP has had glitching out completely unusable rendering on the latest version of Illustrator since October 2017. Adobe blame Apple, presumably Apple blame Adobe because neither of them are fixing it.

As if my deteriorating keys on this machine were not bad enough. This wasn't a good WWDC for me. My PC is working great despite being an obscure setup with mismatched GPUs, can't say I understand why the graphic designer workhorse machine MBP is unusable with Illustrator and that is working just fine..

Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by sgift on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @04:13AM (#17235806)
> even though windows and my Wacom tablet do not play nice together.

They don't? Whats the matter? (mine works great, but I'm not a heavy user so curious if it depends on the model or I just didn't run into it so far)

Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by shahar2k on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @05:11AM (#17236047)
microsoft changed the pen behavior in one of the creators' updates and now the pen buttons behave strangely (randomly dont work in certain applications) as well as the pen being registered as a finger in legacy applications for a while... making windows 7 the only really viable way to use wacom for a professional (speaking as one)

let alone the inability to reconfigure things like n-trig pens to have hover right click/middle click functionality, it's been INCREDIBLY frustrating without any communication from microsoft.

Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by ctrl-j on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @10:33AM (#17237951)
I've got the Intuos Pro from a couple models back. Windows Ink randomly causes pressure sensitivity to drop out (especially since the creators update.) On Windows 8 I never had trouble with the wireless adapter, now I have to run wired. Button clicks don't always register and sometimes will send the wrong input.

Overall it's rough, there are days where it seems better than others - but I'll randomly lose sensitivity and multiple reboots appears to be the only pseudo-consistent means of getting it back.

That being said - It's still way more usable than Photoshop/Illustrator on my Mac.

I miss 15 years ago when I had CS2 + Intuos Pro 2 and everything just worked.

Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by pjmlp on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @03:53AM (#17235710)
Photoshop CC 2015 already had partial support for Metal.
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by endorphone on Monday June 04, 2018 @06:14PM (#17233105)
True, but they didn't remove OpenGL, they simply deprecated it (e.g. don't expect any updates to it, new tooling will not be built around it, etc). That shouldn't affect legacy apps.
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by jakobegger on Monday June 04, 2018 @06:42PM (#17233299)
Yes, and deprecation doesn’t mean a lot on the Mac. Apple often deprecates stuff and still leaves it in. They remove it only when there’s something to be gained.

(eg. linking with the system-provided OpenSSL has been deprecated for years, but AFAIK they still ship it.)

Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by archagon on Monday June 04, 2018 @08:11PM (#17233858)
They mentioned in the State of the Union that this is the first step towards removing it.
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by rarepostinlurkr on Monday June 04, 2018 @08:10PM (#17233855)
Chicken and egg. If they remove it apps stop working, if apps don’t update they can’t remove it.
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by xienze on Monday June 04, 2018 @09:17PM (#17234190)
I’m not so sure they’re worried about apps breaking. They’ve certainly stuck to the “no more 32bit iOS apps” thing.
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by seandougall on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @12:23AM (#17234975)
Apple can get away with that on iOS, but they're a lot more conservative with macOS.

To expand on your example, I maintain a legacy app that is stuck in 32-bit land because it relies on the QuickTime framework. QuickTime has been deprecated for seven years, and the transition to 64-bit has been in progress for over a decade, and yet my legacy app runs just fine even under the Mojave beta. There are multiple time bombs lurking in that app, and one of these days I'm going to have to rewrite it from the ground up, but I've been astonished at how long it has lasted.

Apple knows it would be bad karma to make a large number of legacy apps and games suddenly break on the Mac. They're not idiots; they have a perfectly good idea of the scale of mutiny that would ensue. So I'll eat my hat if OpenGL doesn't continue to work for at least the better part of the next decade.

Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by cmsj on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @05:38AM (#17236148)
They said in the Platform State of the Union that Mojave will be the last macOS that runs 32bit apps, so QuickTime.framework and your app are running out of time!
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by seandougall on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @11:22AM (#17238525)
Huzzah! Thanks for the heads-up. I’m looking forward to catching up on the whole SOTU.
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by rarepostinlurkr on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @11:36AM (#17238667)
They specifically mentioned QuickTime in the release notes as well.
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by jcelerier on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @04:23AM (#17235845)
> QuickTime has been deprecated for seven years,

It has entirely been removed from the latest (since 10.12 IIRC?) SDKs so now you have to keep older SDKs just to build your app.

Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by seandougall on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @11:21AM (#17238499)
True — 10.12 is my recollection as well — but I’ve been bitten so many times by compiling under a new SDK, especially with an older build target, that I do that as a matter of course anyway.
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by rarepostinlurkr on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @11:34AM (#17238647)
I find it hard to fathom that people think a huge software company like Apple doesn’t have awareness of the impact of its changes or people responsible for compatibility.
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by blt on Monday June 04, 2018 @06:14PM (#17233113)
If there isn't one already, I'm sure someone will implement OpenGL on top of Metal when it's needed badly enough. At least they're going closer to the hardware, not further away.
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by theandrewbailey on Monday June 04, 2018 @11:28PM (#17234763)
Already there: https://moltengl.com/moltenvk/

"MoltenVK is a runtime library that maps Vulkan to Apple's Metal graphics framework on iOS and macOS."

Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by iajrz on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @01:29AM (#17235204)
But molten is for Vulkan (ie: not OpenGL) - and not 100% of Vulkan, AFAIK.
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by dgellow on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @03:19AM (#17235578)
Both exist: MoltenGL is for OpenGL ES https://moltengl.com/moltengl/
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by steevdave on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @05:44AM (#17236178)
OpenGL ES is not OpenGL though.

It's a subset mostly for mobile.

Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by chris_wot on Monday June 04, 2018 @08:31PM (#17233968)
LibreOffice uses OpenGL and OpenCL extensively.
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by sbuk on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @03:43PM (#17241333)
Why use Libre Office on a Mac when Pages, Numbers and Keynote are free (as in beer)? I’m going to go out on a limb and make a baseless argument that the Libre Office install base on the Mac is very low. On iOS it’s non-existent.
Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by chris_wot on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @09:43PM (#17243764)
There is no way that Pages, Numbers and Keynote can open as wide a range of file formats that LibreOffice can. And there are way more features in LibreOffice.

On iOS, dunno, you probably have a point there.

Re:Deprecation of OpenGL and OpenCL by Lievelingsduif on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @09:50AM (#17247117)
Having used pages and word, please don't tell people to use Pages for everything.

It doesn't have the features you need when you're creating more complex documents. Last time I've used it it didn't even allow you to have different sections which allow you switch between the rotation of pages.