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Re:Google quits selling tablets by sliken on Friday June 01, 2018 @09:13PM (#17211994)
I loved my nexus-7, and the 2nd gen nexus-7 even more. Inexpensive, pure android, decent hardware spec, and a usefully larger display than a phone.

Anyone know of a current table that avoids the adware, crapware, and 3d contact managers where each card flies around in 3D? I just want android with the current security updates and 7-9" display.

Re:Google quits selling tablets by shasheene on Friday June 01, 2018 @09:33PM (#17212092)
Samsung Chromebook Plus satisfies my needs for a tablet: mainly media consumption (web browsing, YouTube, reading long articles, and watching movies).

1. Incredibly nice screen

2. Gets security updates (ChromeOS devices are great for this compared to the dumpster fire that is Android security)

3. Haven't had any issues with Android support (I use mainly apps like RBDigital, Instapaper, Wikipedia)

4. Works well for movies (I watch in laptop mode using stock media player)

5. No bloatware

6. Really good battery life.

It also has a stylus which works well, but I've returned to paper exercise books for note taking.

I can't recommend the device enough.

My biggest gripe is I need to carry a USBC->USBA adapter to be able to charge my phone, or connect USB drives. They're cheap, but it's a bit annoying.

Re:Google quits selling tablets by komali2 on Friday June 01, 2018 @10:31PM (#17212291)
>It also has a stylus which works well, but I've returned to paper exercise books for note taking.

So, I'm very curious about this. Were you taking written notes on electronic devices? What apps and devices have you tried?

I ask because a couple years ago I tried using a surface for taking notes when I got into a coding bootcamp and it was a mind blowing experience for me - finally, infinite paper space. Swapping between whatever color pen/highlighter I needed. Throwing pics into notes. I thought time and time again, "if I had this thing in college I'd have had a 4.0" (I had, like, a 3.2 lol)

For me it made taking notes so easy that I learned better. Now it's two generations old and I'm looking to upgrade, but I can't justify 2k on the new model or the surface book, so I'm wondering if you explored other options, or what your experience was with the Chromebook plus.

I've also considered switching to pen and paper but that means carrying around a fuckload of pens and highlighters, which would annoy me.

Re:Google quits selling tablets by wlesieutre on Saturday June 02, 2018 @12:45AM (#17212772)
I switched from a Surface Pro 3 to an iPad Pro 9.7” and found Apple’s stylus to be much more accurate. It’s not a huge deal for roughly capturing handwriting, but the Surface’s Ntrig digitizer relies a lot on smoothing out strokes, if you try to draw a slow diagonal line you can see a ton of wobble as the stroke gets pulled around by the digitizer’s grid.

You lose out on having a full desktop OS when you need it, and not having an eraser on the back of the stylus is an adjustment, but it’s a fantastic device for writing and drawing. More recently they’ve brought the stylus support down to the entry level iPad, so if you have an Apple Store nearby I’d definitely recommend stopping by to try it out.

Re:Google quits selling tablets by criddell on Saturday June 02, 2018 @08:02AM (#17214171)
What software do you use on the iPad?
Re:Google quits selling tablets by wlesieutre on Saturday June 02, 2018 @09:03AM (#17214391)
OneNote mostly. The iOS version isn’t as full featured as the desktop one (it’s more in line with the Windows Store version), but it’s worked well for me. That’s where all my notes were when I switched so it seemed easiest to stick with it.

The built-in Notes app from Apple has also gotten more capable in iOS 11, and there are other options that I hear good things about but haven’t tried.

https://www.imore.com/best-notetaking-handwriting-apps-apple...

Procreate and Autodesk Sketchbook are both great for more powerful digital painting / drawing, I’m personally in the Procreate camp.

Re:Google quits selling tablets by criddell on Monday June 04, 2018 @10:36AM (#17228111)
I've been using Good Notes and the handwriting part of it is fantastic. The notebook management part of the app is somewhat weaker though and lately I've been thinking about trying something else.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by pier25 on Saturday June 02, 2018 @11:33AM (#17214980)
For sketching quick diagrams on meetings I love Linea.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by SomewhatLikely on Friday June 01, 2018 @11:50PM (#17212563)
I've had good experiences with the Samsung Note tablets with the s-pen and the third party Squid app (formerly Papyrus). But even this experience is lesser now. The former gen had the s-pen embedded into the tablet itself so you just always had it around. It doesn't do that anymore and you have to lug it separately. I haven't tried a iPad with pencil, but if I have to replace my tablet I'll buy anything that brings back that embedded stylus approach.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by shasheene on Saturday June 02, 2018 @12:16AM (#17212650)
I've played with using Google Keep (both the Chrome app and the Android app), Squid and Kami.

I haven't played around with any other devices' styluses.

I switched back to pen and paper because I usually want to continue to use my device with full-screen content while taking notes.

Re:Google quits selling tablets by Dylan16807 on Saturday June 02, 2018 @07:49AM (#17214118)
> Gets security updates (ChromeOS devices are great for this compared to the dumpster fire that is Android security)

Enjoy that while it lasts. I have a chromebook that recently notified me it won't get any more updates, after four and a half years. That beats a phone, but it's pretty terrible by laptop standards. You can expect a laptop or desktop with any other OS to be good for a decade or more.

Re:Google quits selling tablets by voltagex_ on Saturday June 02, 2018 @08:55AM (#17214355)
Can you run Linux on it instead?

Not to excuse Google - but there's little incentive for a company to maintain devices past a certain point when there's no financial or regulatory requirement to do so.

I'm not sure Windows 7 being supported for a decade was intentional, but we'll see what pans out with Windows 10's incremental model.

Re:Google quits selling tablets by Dylan16807 on Saturday June 02, 2018 @10:13AM (#17214662)
I'm planning to stick some kind of linux or alternative chrome OS on there, if possible.

> I'm not sure Windows 7 being supported for a decade was intentional, but we'll see what pans out with Windows 10's incremental model.

It definitely was. XP, Vista, 7, 8, and 10LTSB all start[ed] with 10 years of support, and you can install a newer version on your same hardware to reset that counter.

Something's gone wrong with the core architecture if Google needs to actively "maintain devices" instead of just making generic security patches and shipping them out, with a little bit of testing.

Re:Google quits selling tablets by jrs95 on Saturday June 02, 2018 @10:49AM (#17214809)
Microsoft doesn’t need to constantly rebuild different kernels for every supported device, which is basically a necessity for Android/ChromeOS because of their Linux base. That’s probably a big motivator for the Fuschia project.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by tracker1 on Saturday June 02, 2018 @12:19PM (#17215185)
It has far less to do with the Linux base than the shear variety of chipsets with custom loaders needed for ARM architecture.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by digi_owl on Saturday June 02, 2018 @02:24PM (#17215699)
And anything like PCI lookup on ARM.

Damn it, MS balked at offering Windows on power efficient Atoms. This because Intel had stripped PCI from the SoC to save transistors and thus power.

I suspect that if you were to poke at the ARM chips found in the Windows RT devices, they would be special variants with PCI grafted on.

ARM SOCs are a bit like firing up an old DOS PC and fiddling with IRQ and DMA setting, only that you can't pull the cover off to see what cards are inserted and what the DIPs are set to.

Re:Google quits selling tablets by Dylan16807 on Saturday June 02, 2018 @08:22PM (#17217187)
To add insult to injury, it's an x86 Chromebook that doesn't require any of that custom ARM configuration to run.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by hedora on Saturday June 02, 2018 @01:27PM (#17215475)
I guess I’m old fashioned, but I highly recommend getting an x86 netbook and putting linux on it. They still exist, and are basically chromebooks with the crazy google bios removed.

For instance the acer 11” cloudbooks run linux well.

You can disable secure boot. However, if you want chromebook style security without google or the centralized PKI, you can purge the ms keys and enroll the bootloader of your choice without special signing from the distro.

You can also manually enroll the distribution’s keys, I think, but I don’t see any practical reason to do that.

Re:Google quits selling tablets by voltagex_ on Sunday June 03, 2018 @06:52PM (#17222870)
The "crazy google bios" is CoreBoot, isn't it? Why wouldn't you want that?
Re:Google quits selling tablets by Bud on Friday June 01, 2018 @11:47PM (#17212550)
Current iPad trounces the Samsung in all these categories (except Android support, of course), though, and costs less too. And has a better aspect ratio. And is much lighter.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by shasheene on Saturday June 02, 2018 @12:12AM (#17212634)
I initially bought it only for laptop-mode (web-browsing and Google Docs). The keyboard and touchpad are pretty great. The tablet-mode has just been a convenient bonus for reading when laying down.

While I think it has the perfect form-factor for a laptop (thin, light and great battery life), it's not the perfect general-use laptop as it can't run arbitrary x86 applications natively, nor has high specs. (I hope Project Crostini will make it a suitable for some light dev work though). Its touchpad is great, and so is the Chromebook-style keyboard (small tweak I'd make would be a double-width backspace key, but I for sure prefer no Super key and no F1 to F12 row).

It may not the perfect tablet because as you say, iPad is lighter, and the ergonomics of a hinged hybrid will always be slightly worse with a keyboard on the back. But it does a really good job.

While arguably imperfect in isolation, together as a single unibody aluminum device, it is the best device I have ever used. For what it is, it's very very cheap, you're right it may be slightly more expensive than an iPad (and the price hasn't really fell since it came out a while ago).

Re:Google quits selling tablets by _emacsomancer_ on Friday June 01, 2018 @11:56PM (#17212577)
> is much lighter

presumably because of (lack of) keyboard.

Re:Google quits selling tablets by Bud on Saturday June 02, 2018 @12:08AM (#17212618)
It's lighter even if you include Apple's (very nice) keyboard. And has a higher build quality.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by diffeomorphism on Saturday June 02, 2018 @08:33AM (#17214281)
Its $100+ keyboard? And that is still missing the $100 pencil. And you get a smaller screen.

If you want a 12 inch screen with keyboard and pen this starts at $850. Suprise, double the price gives you something marginally nicer.

Re:Google quits selling tablets by _emacsomancer_ on Saturday June 02, 2018 @12:27PM (#17215228)
> double the price gives you something marginally nicer.

But then you have use an iOS walled garden.

Re:Google quits selling tablets by stoolpigeon on Saturday June 02, 2018 @03:28AM (#17213285)
It's doesn't cost less once you add the pencil and a keyboard unless I'm missing something.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by pjmlp on Saturday June 02, 2018 @04:37AM (#17213526)
Samsung also has W10 tablets, and for my use cases, iPad surely doesn't trounces those.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by chimeracoder on Saturday June 02, 2018 @02:32AM (#17213097)
> Samsung Chromebook Plus satisfies my needs for a tablet: mainly media consumption (web browsing, YouTube, reading long articles, and watching movies).

I have a Samsung Chromebook Plus, and I absolutely despise it as a tablet. Compared to my Nexus 9 (which is still kicking), it's a far inferior device. My primary uses for my tablet are watching video and reading comics. It manages to fail at both of those two things.

1. No system-wide support for red-tint (aka "night mode", Flux, Twilight, etc.)[0]

2. Buggy rotation lock - this works very inconsistently across apps.

3. Heavy (compared to keyboard-less tablets)

4. Buggy soft keyboard (sometimes the soft keyboard just straight-up doesn't work in certain apps, so I have to unfold the device from tablet mode just to use the hardware keyboard to type).

I still use my Nexus 9 over the Chromebook Plus every time I can. When my Nexus 9 dies, I'll probably end up getting a Surface to replace it.

[0] There is finally support for it on a per-user basis, but it took years for them to introduce this. And even now, if you close your tablet and have to unlock it again, you'll be blinded by the unlock screen.

Re:Google quits selling tablets by towb on Saturday June 02, 2018 @05:41AM (#17213767)
I almost only use my Nexus 9 for Netflix/Plex in bed and a few ebooks now and then. Not sure I want to replace it with something that does more than that, buy some expensive replacement and still only end up doing the Netflix in bed thing would suck. I hope there still are some cheap (Xiaomi maybe?) tablets out there when that day comes.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by jon-wood on Saturday June 02, 2018 @07:12AM (#17214033)
If all you want is Netflix/Plex and books then Amazon’s Fire tablets are great. I have one I mainly keep in the kitchen so I can watch TV while cooking and it’s been great, although I’m tempted to get one of the newer models for Alexa support.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by shasheene on Saturday June 02, 2018 @04:40AM (#17213539)
Good response. Sorry to hear your experiences. Given I use tablet-mode mainly for Android reading apps (media consumption) and the native Chrome browser (all in portrait-mode), I don't think I've had those issues, at least anytime recently.

I've definitely had the soft keyboard issues on a lot of Android devices in the past a lot however.

Re:Google quits selling tablets by propogandist on Saturday June 02, 2018 @02:03AM (#17212993)
with a Chromebook, you're buying hardware with pre-installed spyware, until you remove all Google services from the OS
Re:Google quits selling tablets by paulie_a on Saturday June 02, 2018 @12:08AM (#17212617)
2-5 seems surpring. Samsung rarely supports their products and constantly shits all over them with custom crapware.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by toast0 on Saturday June 02, 2018 @12:21AM (#17212673)
Chromebooks have no room for manufacturer involvement with the software. Afaik, assuming based on public references, if you want to make a Chromebook, you use Google's reference design for the motherboard, pick a compatible CPU, design your own keyboard (but use a Google approved controller instead of a normal one), design your own case and pick a display, put everything together, use Google's firmware and use Google's ChromeOS build. OS updates come automatically from Google.

Perhaps it's slightly less rigid than it seems, but I've seen several Chromebooks and they all seem exactly the same. There's not even a manufacturer logo on boot.

Re:Google quits selling tablets by WalterSear on Saturday June 02, 2018 @01:07PM (#17215388)
Sounds like they learned their lesson from Android.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by dbuder on Saturday June 02, 2018 @01:42AM (#17212932)
Can you point me towards some information on the google approved keyboard controller, I couldn't find anything except the layout differences on google.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by toast0 on Saturday June 02, 2018 @11:12PM (#17217725)
A lot of the Chromebooks have an i2c keyboard controller instead of a standard USB/PS2 controller. I assume you have to put something in that has drivers in ChromeOS. I don't know if there's specific info on that (other than what goes into the other os drivers)
Re:Google quits selling tablets by freedomben on Saturday June 02, 2018 @12:12AM (#17212631)
That's one of the benefits of Chromebooks: there isn't really any way to install the custom crapware. On Android they are obviously not limited there and (ab)use it to a great extent. It's really too bad, because I love their hardware. Can't stand the software tho, so I buy elsewhere.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by paulie_a on Saturday June 02, 2018 @12:20AM (#17212670)
I love their hardware but I will never buy it again. It's disappointing that Google won't be making tables anymore. i really liked my Nexus 7. But Samsung is junk software wise in my opinion.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by freedomben on Saturday June 02, 2018 @12:38AM (#17212744)
I totally agree. There was a rumor a couple years ago that Samsung was going to make a "pure Android" phone and I got pretty excited for that, but alas the "pure" experience shipped with crapware and their custom launcher D-:

I do actually know someone that loves Samsung software, but it's rare. I think they'd get really far if they would make it light and easy to remove. I really don't see any disadvantages to that approach, unless they're being paid to include things (which is entirely possible).

Re:Google quits selling tablets by asveikau on Saturday June 02, 2018 @01:30AM (#17212902)
> custom launcher

Speaking of this, this is another thing Google seriously screwed up lately. Used to be you could install Google Now launcher on any device and avoid OEM crap launchers. Now there is "pixel launcher" which is tied to the device. You can get the APK but this is non supported.

It is so weird to me that they would create a platform where you can swap out launchers and not leave a reasonable first party default in place. Bad for the Android brand and bad for users.

Re:Google quits selling tablets by pjmlp on Saturday June 02, 2018 @04:42AM (#17213546)
Here is another one.

I can't stand the plain bland stock Android UI.

To see where I came from, Enlightenment was one of my favourite window managers on my Linux days.

Re:Google quits selling tablets by paulie_a on Saturday June 02, 2018 @10:47AM (#17214804)
Enlightenment always seemed cool in videos but very bland when I actually tried it. Ugly even compared to what I had seen.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by abrowne on Saturday June 02, 2018 @12:19PM (#17215189)
Samsung fund{ed,s?} Enlightenment/EFL development for Tizen, so they are linked in a way.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by asveikau on Saturday June 02, 2018 @01:27AM (#17212892)
I find lineage os runs pretty well on my Samsung tablet. Be sure to double check model numbers on that though.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by kbd on Friday June 01, 2018 @10:19PM (#17212252)
I still use my Nexus 7 (2nd gen) as my main tablet. That thing is a trooper. It's my book reader, Chromecast runner, Sonos controller, etc. It's big enough to comfortably watch Twitch on. It fits in my back jeans pocket so I can easily bring it with me, which lots of tablets including the ipad mini don't. I'd love to find a modern replacement for it, ideally just a little bit bigger.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by miguelrochefort on Friday June 01, 2018 @11:49PM (#17212557)
Xiaomi Mi Max 2

It's not as big, but you can carry it everywhere. And it's only $200.

https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size#/phones/size/Xiaomi-M...

Re:Google quits selling tablets by SideburnsOfDoom on Saturday June 02, 2018 @07:34AM (#17214084)
I would do the same, but as of this year battery recharge times of my Nexus 7 tablet got longer and longer until it died by running out of battery while charging. Hardware doesn't last forever. It will be missed.

The article is correct that tablet replacement rates are low. But that's not zero. And there is a lack of modern replacements.

I've been looking around but I expected there to be a "this years model" with a new-ish processor, high-res screen, USB-C and a recent build of Android.

Re:Google quits selling tablets by abawany on Saturday June 02, 2018 @08:06AM (#17214184)
Not disagreeing with your main point but battery replacement on the Nexus 7 2013 is super easy - I did it in under 10 minutes.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by jotux on Friday June 01, 2018 @10:56PM (#17212389)
I still use my Nexus 10 when traveling to watch movies. The screen looks amazing and even after ~5 years I can watch 6+ hours of video on it without a recharge.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by purrcat259 on Saturday June 02, 2018 @03:00AM (#17213172)
Same here. N10 is the perfect travel tablet. I even have a POGO charging cable which soon enough could be worth more than the N10. :)
Re:Google quits selling tablets by superflyguy on Saturday June 02, 2018 @04:53AM (#17213579)
My one's gone yellow and the battery lasts about 30 minutes.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by Keyframe on Saturday June 02, 2018 @07:57AM (#17214149)
Same here. It's perfect for my use. Only thing missing is an sd card slot, even micro one, but with otg I can manage even that. If battery dies, you can buy a replacement kit on ebay.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by GordonS on Saturday June 02, 2018 @09:22AM (#17214477)
Still have a Nexus 10, but it's gotten so slow it's ready for the bin :(
Re:Google quits selling tablets by icebraining on Saturday June 02, 2018 @01:51AM (#17212951)
The Lenovo Tab 4 8 Plus seems reasonable, and it is one inch bigger.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by gruez on Friday June 01, 2018 @09:27PM (#17212055)
go over to https://download.lineageos.org/ and find a supported tablet.

pros: no crapware (nearly stock android), weekly updates

cons: needs unlocked bootloader, not the newest and greatest (manufacturers take their sweet time to release kernel sources), weekly rolling release

Re:Google quits selling tablets by trumped on Friday June 01, 2018 @10:33PM (#17212298)
It would be nice if there was a law forcing manufacturers to unlock your bootloader if you request it for a device that you own 100%... it's getting harder and harder to find unlockable devices (without having to resort to bugs in the system).
Re:Google quits selling tablets by matt_heimer on Friday June 01, 2018 @10:55PM (#17212387)
https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ lets you easily ctrl-f for tablet
Re:Google quits selling tablets by atomi on Friday June 01, 2018 @09:24PM (#17212038)
Nexus 7 2013 is still a great tablet.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by Too on Saturday June 02, 2018 @02:23AM (#17213060)
While the Nexus7 gen 2 was, and to some extent still is, a great tablet. I don't think i would recommend anyone to buy it today. It's stuck on Android 6.0 with known security vulnerabilities and the performance is starting to fall a bit behind the software "development".
Re:Google quits selling tablets by phjesusthatguy3 on Saturday June 02, 2018 @10:16AM (#17214671)
True, but you can get a refurb unit for about $100 and put LineageOS on it. We've had five of them through this house (the kids use them) and I haven't seen anything they want to do that it can't.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by namibj on Friday June 01, 2018 @10:44PM (#17212341)
Slightly below the range, you find e.g. Lenovo's Phab 2 Pro, on which i yo date don't remember encountering crapware (of any kind). I can comfortably run an 80-column terminal on it (wireless even), and it still (barely) fits in my front pocket.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by throwawy2018 on Friday June 01, 2018 @11:11PM (#17212441)
> don't remember encountering crapware (of any kind)

Lenovo Motorola, Huawei and others have plenty of spyware on them. Years ago there was Superfish, later Adups Technology spyware and Allwinner's root backdoor.

Not the kinds of devices you want to be doing your banking on.

Re:Google quits selling tablets by namibj on Saturday June 02, 2018 @06:26PM (#17216738)
Yes. Probably. Which is why I only said that I don't remember encountering any, not that one should presume there is none.
Re:Google quits selling tablets by joshamania on Saturday June 02, 2018 @01:08PM (#17215395)
I got a Samsung Galaxy Tab A from Costco for $220...10" (9.7?) screen, decent processor...not totally vanilla Android but close. I've been very pleased with it.