Don't be so eager to forgive them. They're not hugging Linux right now because they're a Good Company trying to Do No Evil.
The Home and Pro editions, meanwhile, are effectively "Xbox OS for PCs." They turn your computer into an entertainment appliance run and maintained by Microsoft itself. Of course they collect data, just like there are data-collection agents on all the nodes of your average production system cluster. When Microsoft is the sysadmin, Microsoft needs to collect ops data.
And, personally, I don't think that's a bad thing, per se. It's a choice you make. You can take control of your PC while still running Windows, if you like. (It's just a big hassle, because truly administering a modern Windows system is a big hassle.)
There's something fundamentally wrong with that to my mind, given how the Pro release of Windows has always been placed.
I should not need to get an Enterprise release to be able to manage my own machine, restrict the phoning home, and control other basic features of my machine used in a professional context. I've no need of 101 features for managing 1,000 desktops and neither have many smaller businesses who are also now landed with "Xbox OS for PCs".
And Pro really refers to Prosumer not Professional.
Anyhow, it is /not/ ok for an OS to spy on their users by default - even if you can disable it manually.
I skimmed the list and these particular ones jumped out at me:
> Movies > URL for a specific two-second chunk of content if there is an error
> Music & TV > Service URL for song being downloaded from the music service -- collected when an error occurs to facilitate restoration of service
> Photos App > File source data -- local, SD card, network device, and OneDrive
> only when you have it set to Full level "you" (probably any users) won't set the level to "full"; this is the default setting (source [1]). MS only offers "basic" as opt-out (which it really is not).
[0] - https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/basic...
[1] - https://www.ghacks.net/2018/03/12/configure-telemetry-window...
update: formatting
they're capturing more data about you than you probably realise exists to be captured.
See https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/confi....
Microsoft have marketed it to business and portrayed it as intended for professional business use ever since XP introduced the version split. Until large enough to be allowed near volume licensing SKUs, when you pass some point past a hundred seats, it's the most professional offering a business can get.
That covers nearly all small and medium businesses.
http://www.pcministry.com/win10_telemetry/summary_stats_and_...
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/WindowsForBusiness/windows-p...
Nope.. I can buy pro but I can only try enterprise.
As far as I am aware the pitch has not changed - Pro is for for a business environment, Enterprise if you're in need of centralised management of an estate of machines. So no, Pro should not be taking liberties.
So now to be treated professionally I need to buy a laptop with Win 10 Pro and buy Win 10 again to reinstall it / upgrade it with Win 10 LTS? Can you even buy a single copy?
I can't disable debug telemetry or cortona. If I set the options to via admin (or even safe mode) via registry edits. After a reboot I'll find them back on.
Of course, these European prices already include sales tax, which the US prices don't, but even then it would still be ~250USD without BTW.
So 270USD on sale sounds like a decent savings!
Of course, these European prices already include sales tax, which the US prices don't, but even then it would still be ~250USD without BTW.
Telemetry can be set to basic in settings too, which is harmless, and it also asks you upon install.
Most of them live in a bubble and it's just not cool to use Windows or Microsoft products...so even when you're right, which you are, the most you can hope for is that they'll ignore your comment instead of spouting off some ridiculous nonsense that they actually have no clue about. And then they turn around and pimp Apple, the most controlling, selfish enemy of personal freedom with the shittiest software that you can imagine.
It's kinda hilarious to watch though.
Full disclosure: I don't use Windows, I don't use Apple products, I'm trying to avoid using any closed-source software.
Many other people here will complain about Microsoft ads on the start menu but turn around and forgive Apple who shows you ads every time you want to update your computer via the App Store. With Windows when I remove the ad (which is just a shortcut to a non-installed app) it’s gone forever or at least a long time.
Or, they will fault Microsoft for some slight lock-in with their Mail app that nobody is forced to use and completely forgive Apple for the immense level of lock in on iOS because “Apple has always only offered that” and Microsoft is not allowed to change.
However, I have to put up with basic telemetry which is slightly annoying but not a showstopper for me. I can also install the enterprise version of Windows which I think I can get via my MSDN subscription. Either way, it is annoying but I can live with it.
The fact that there is a Search UI on your taskbar (which you can remove with right click), doesn't imply that Cortana's data collection is enabled.
So tell me, where can I buy that for my personal computer?
>because they're for serious people
No, because those who can get Windows 10 LTSB actually have the power to push back. Imagine telling Dell or HP that everything they type may be sent to MS at any time.
>You can still take control
So how can I permanently end all telemetry, now and forever on my box. I'm even willing to sign a letter that I won't hold them responsible for any viruses that I get because I didn't update in time.
I ran LTSB for a year and it was brilliant. But on day 366 (or whever my slmgr -rearm trick ran out) you get locked out with no real way to change to a different SKU or reset without a clean install :(
There's a program called BlackBird (http://getblackbird.net/) that claims to strip out all that telemetry. I have been running it for a while and while I haven't closely inspected traffic to validate the author's claims my bandwidth monitor widget doesn't have a lot to report, rarely rising above 1kb/sec unless I'm doing something.
1. “Note: Some anti-virus products may detect Blackbird as malware.”
2. “Last updated: Nov. 10, 2016”
...now, not so much. sigh And I really wanted to believe.
So, probably safe.
Simple: you use a different OS that doesn't spy on you. Microsoft is under no obligation to provide a product or service to you the way you want. They've decided they only want to offer products that spy on you, and that's their right. If you don't like that, you're free to not buy or use their products, and use something else instead. There are alternatives out there that don't spy on you.
I use a license key from work for my home PCs and it's lovely.
I’m not defending Microsoft, and I’m not a fan. I am merely speculating on their perspective.
Here in Germany, it is still controversial whether Windows 10 machines can be used in public services at all.
This is a difficult problem. The software could be audited by an independent third party. However each update needs to be audited as well. Furthermore the binary of the initial state and each subsequent update binary would have to be signed by the auditor in a way allowing independent verification of the signature.
How does one, as a non-enterprise, even get W10 Enterprise LTSB? I would, in a heartbeat, but MS wants to shove crapvertising down peoples' throats no matter the cost. And it's logical, given that when the users with money to spend and technical expertise fall out of the advertising eyeball pool, the eyeball pool loses its worth as it will be filled with poor noobs to whom all you can sell is the latest iteration of Candy Crush and snake-oil "antivirus".
I wouldn't recommend to a developer or an average user.
Sounds fine to me.
Granted not everyone needs this.
Why would only people who pay $200 for a windows edition get (some) privacy?
Remember the days when the products you bought didn't spy on you? It seems like now companies are double-dipping or triple-dipping with this spying and selling of your data after you've already purchased the product/service.
And we're getting reconditioned to live with it and agree to it, especially from comments like yours.
Don't like it? Don't buy it. If you pay hard-earned cash for a product, and then complain that it spies on you even though you knew this before you bought it, you don't really have much cause to complain. If you really value your privacy, then put your money where your mouth is.
Why?
At a higher level, Gates seems more credible than Larry or Sergey to me. Totally biased by my history, but I'm pretty strong on that point. Gates mellowed out and seems more broadly interested in "greater good".
And this is all without going into how he tried to destroy Linux, control UNIX, successfully destroyed competing DOS platforms (eg DR DOS), blocked OEMs / shops from selling PCs with competing OSs (or was it machines without Windows preinstalled? I forget now), ruined EeePCs and their form factors (by selling With dies at a loss), etc.
I think the only reason Gates didn't try his luck with data collection was because it simply wasn't a thing back then.
That said, I do still respect the guy even though I disliked his products and how he monopolised the market. Which is more than I can say about Balmer.
Office 365 is accelerating that. No need for local Word, PowerPoint, Excel, etc.
I'd guess Microsoft gets most Windows sales from regular people buying regular laptops with Windows preinstalled. Most of them probably don't even know there is something else other than Windows.
I instinctively feel like ChromeOS and OSX (and mobile OS variants) are going to kill Windows desktop off. But I'm also aware I might be off base.
Around here ChromeOS is a kind of rare animal hardly seen on any consumer shop, and when it appears it is usually tied to some promotion to get rid of those in stock.
OS X is everywhere on northen Europe big cities, but go south or to the country side where many people dream to go over the 500€ barrier and it too becomes a rare animal.
Maybe it's because a computer is a significant expense, so people value price/performance more,
or maybe because schools have Windows PCs and nobody is used to OSX from young age.
For gaming, it's pretty much only choice, Macs have no hardware to handle them, and for Linux, I've tried switch many times, and it always been a hassle.
I've ended up with Ubuntu for work and Windows for everything else.
2. Gates left Microsoft.
3. Gates is good now.
4. ???
5. Microsoft is good now.
Unless there is some weird "conscious uncoupling" thing that made them both better, what could step #4 be?
It makes terrific financial sense for them to take ownership, liability (and revenues) for a product class their native technology can't compete in.
MS for all their faults are at least still in the business of selling operating systems and not selling you.
I ditched windows for a reason (several, but privacy was one) and I've got no intention of checking every 3 months how far down the slippery slope ubuntu has gone. And they will go down that slippery slope because it's abundantly clear that they as an organisation they don't value privacy.
Also, you can use distros based on Fedora/RedHat if you are a Canonical hater.
Because it happened to be mentioned in a preview video I watched on youtube. What happens in 3 months when they change that policy and it get's past my radar? This is FUD canonical have created by not taking privacy seriously.
The difference between the '90s and now is that in the '90s Microsoft spread FUD against Linux, and now segments of the Linux community are spreading FUD against Microsoft. FUD is bad no matter who spreads it.
On the other hand their contempt for the (paying!) customer is sill blatantly evident, it's right there in Windows 10 telemetry settings being reset.
All I can read into it is that it's in their best interest to stop being deliberately hostile towards Linux and open-source. We can trust them doing The Right Thing only as long as The Right Thing benefits them.
With that being said, there's a huge difference in acknowledging a company becoming more developer focused, and trusting a company. You shouldn't trust any company to do "the right thing", regardless of how noble their actions may seem on the outside. As Google have shown, your motto can literally be "do not evil" and in the space of a decade you are viewed as a monster.
The whole LOC drama train is tied to code that doesn't get compiled when you specify the architecture.
Realtime OSs are currently in vogue because they better match how some IoTs devices work, so there's less abstraction that doesn't apply to that circumstances (and therefore improved performance/reduced complexity).
Is it, though? Linux has had NOMMU (running without an MMU at all) support since the early 2000s, and the atomics / barriers are more based on Alpha's memory model than anything else - several of those primitives just compile out to a compiler barrier or nothing at all on x86.
Most heavyweight things you don't need in an IoT context can be compiled-out completely - I think probably the major bit of infrastructure you can't is support for multiple user IDs?
Me too. Good thing Google exists now :)
It's also a big swing for me in that I trust MS more than Google now to do the right thing. I'd have thought that impossible a couple of decades ago.