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Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by jMyles on Thursday April 12, 2018 @10:22PM (#16826697)
Tell me this isn't because the vision is defense contracting. Are people banking on Space Force here?
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by azernik on Thursday April 12, 2018 @10:38PM (#16826765)
tl;dr No. Commercial launch is a big market, and SpaceX is eating it alive.

SpaceX is finally following through on its promises and has put a lot of the technical risk of its strategy in the past. All that risk was priced into old valuations, so with a now-reliable and frequently-launched vehicle in Falcon 9, and successful follow-through on Falcon Heavy (less of a big deal economically than the media brouhaha makes it out to be), that risk has gone down and so the valuation is going up.

The launch business is a big [1] (but not enormous) one, and SpaceX has gone from around ~15% to ~45% market share in two years [2]. In my understanding, US DoD launches are a small, but particularly-high-margin subset of that market.

[1] $8.8B annually, according to https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20180116005923/en/Glo...

[2] 2015-2017, according to SpaceX testimony to a Congressional committee: https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/rockets/a27290/one-ch...

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by dalbasal on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:50AM (#16827646)
For a tiny bit more context, the military market is a limited. Defense has N number of launches they need, regardless of price. If SpaceX pushes prices down by 50%, demand will not double or triple, at least not fast.

The commercial market will respond to price. SpaceX is all about lowering the price of space-access, and growing the market. More flights. New use cases.

Elon has a great grasp of microeconomics, at least the parts he needs. Tesla was also clever in this regard.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by jbms on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:40AM (#16828364)
Cheaper launches gives defence new use cases too. They'll start to launch smaller satellites into more orbits. It'll take time to change their processes, but they'll be launching small/cube/chip sats with all sorts of sensors.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by nickik on Friday April 13, 2018 @09:28AM (#16829754)
True but the DoD has a very long planning horizon. So it will take time for them to react.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by nugi on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:12PM (#16833069)
I can say, buy not attribute, that they are in fact reacting quite quickly.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by Symmetry on Friday April 13, 2018 @08:37AM (#16829379)
And for even more context, military spy satellites tend to cost a lot, somewhere in the $billions so way more than the launch. Commercial satellites often share common components and typically cost a few $100 million so not that much more than the cost of the launch. And in the commercial sector the transition to cheaper satellites to match cheaper launchers might be more feasible.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by dalbasal on Saturday April 14, 2018 @03:30AM (#16836334)
Good point. I hadn't even thought of that. Along with long horizons generally, this probably explains a lot about militaries' "price inflexibility." Launching is a smaller component of more expensive whole.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by azernik on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @12:14PM (#16859671)
Same with the big NASA science payloads - if you're spending $8-9B on JWST, paying a $100M premium for a launch vehicle you're slightly more confident in is totally worth it.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by sunstone on Friday April 13, 2018 @12:50AM (#16827197)
And then there's the SpaceX space based global internet service coming soon to an orbit near you. They are predicting over 20 billion in revenue by 2025 if I recall correctly.

https://www.cringely.com/2018/04/06/the-space-race-is-over-a...

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by chrispeel on Friday April 13, 2018 @01:43AM (#16827372)
I'm in the wireless broadband industry, and no one I know thinks this space-based internet is a good idea. The rest of the world is going to small cells and they are going for a cell the size of a large city?

I'm a big fan of SpaceX, I'd prefer they stick to flying tourists and satellites. Railroads and airplanes got their start giving joyrides, why not do the same with space.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by adwn on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:49AM (#16827638)
> I'm in the wireless broadband industry, and no one I know thinks this space-based internet is a good idea. The rest of the world is going to small cells and they are going for a cell the size of a large city?

The funny thing is, 5 years ago you could have said: "I'm in the space launch industry, and no one I know thinks those reusable rockets are a good idea. The rest of the world is eking out every last bit of performance, and they are going to sacrifice payload capacity for this?"

The established industry does not always know the best way forward.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by virgilp on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:53AM (#16827654)
Nobody in the mobile phone industry thought that iPhone was a good idea for Apple (no keyboard = hard to do email, no business market; only one operator, with bad network that was inefficiently used by iPhone; too expensive for regular consumers - the competition is fierce, many others tried to get in and failed).

I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm saying you have no way of knowing whether you're wrong or not. Maybe something changed, something that will seem obvious in hindsight, and that makes all the difference in the world. As others said - the fact that SpaceX can launch those satellites much cheaper than anybody ever could, historically, may be the thing that changes the whole equation. Or maybe not - we'll see... but just because you are in the industry, that doesn't make it any more likely that you're right about this.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by sunstone on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:05AM (#16827463)
My understanding is that Google has already invested $1bn in the this tech with SpaceX. SpaceX's current $500m raise is for deploying this tech. You may be aware that Google has a had a bit of trouble with its ISP roll out using small cells and fibre. This system would allow direct last mile access.

However this approach only makes financial sense for SpaceX because of it's much cheaper access to space so it's not surprising that "no one else in the industry" thinks it's a good idea. It's not a good idea for them.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by aquadrop on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:29AM (#16827810)
Damn, I'd prefer Google stay out of this. Well, at least it's not Facebook...
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by tbabb on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:25AM (#16827526)
If I were them, I would do both with the same stone: Customers get terrestrial repeaters with their satellite antennas, and provide service to the local neighborhood. If you are in the vicinity of someone with a roof box, you connect to/buy from them. If not, you invest in a roof box and sell internet back to "the grid", rather analogous to roof solar.

Basically like treating the satellite as backhaul for small cells, and also having the customer BE the small cell. No fiber laying or city government permits or telephone pole work or anything.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by elihu on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:48AM (#16827636)
That might be a pretty good option just from a protocol overhead standpoint.

Maybe there are good technical solutions to this that I don't know about, but I'm inclined to believe that a satellite could communicate more efficiently with a handful of high-throughput ground stations at once than it could hundreds or thousands of smaller ground stations that are continually connecting and disconnecting as they gain or lose line-of-sight. That's a lot of control messages to deal with.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by lorenzhs on Friday April 13, 2018 @07:02AM (#16828792)
First up, let me be clear that wireless technology is utter black magic to me. SpaceX's satellite internet service may or may not work in densely populated areas, I have no idea.

But what if their target market (at least for the beginning) were under-served rural areas? There are lots of villages and small towns in industrialised countries where the highest speed you can currently get is in the low single-digit MBit/s. Loads of people currently have no good internet access options but could afford SpaceX's service (based on what's publicly known about it, the estimates I've seen are that it will likely cost something between $50 and $100 per month). It would also be extremely interesting to businesses in such areas (Germany has quite a few of these, for example).

I think there might just be enough potential customers in sparsely populated areas to make this a profitable service. They can also provide backhaul for cell phone services in such areas.

Oh, and if they can get it working on ships (small sailing yachts, pleasure cruises, and commercial shipping could all profit from this) and airplanes, that might be another nice market to capture.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by dzdt on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:27AM (#16828308)
I don't see any reason they couldn't fly more satellites if their customer base justifies it. The problem they have relative to ground-based systems is the satellites are not stationary. So to increase coverage density on one spot, they have to increase density for everywhere else on the same orbit.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by elihu on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:39AM (#16827594)
It might not be a good way to provide Internet to urban centers, but for those who live in low-population-density areas it could be a compelling option (i.e. it beats dial-up).
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by 7952 on Saturday April 14, 2018 @06:41AM (#16836768)
I wonder if talking about a "cell" is really an appropriate comparison. The Spacex technology is more an alternative to microwave fixed links and fibre backhaul. Just without any restrictions imposed by terrain, remoteness or time constraints.

But the most important thing will be the cost of the recieving equipment. That will determine if it is affordable for domestic use or just in commercial or industrial applications.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by jccooper on Friday April 13, 2018 @12:45PM (#16831652)
They're not a cellular network; their base stations are not innumerable tiny mobile devices. They'll be small but sizable permanent mounts, so they can control geographic density if needed. It's a different beast so the same pressures don't apply.

Heck, it's not even certain to be direct-to-consumer. Starlink makes for a really nice backhaul system, which could be really handy to feed a bunch of smaller terrestrial cells, for example.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by vincentleeuwen on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:20AM (#16827509)
I don't think SpaceX ever flew tourists. That would be Virgin Galactic.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by Rebelgecko on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:28AM (#16827538)
I believe they took deposits to fly people around the moon this year but ended up canceling those plans
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by regnerba on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:49AM (#16827639)
Sort of. They did take a deposit but that had been based on the assumption that the Falcon Heavy would do the flight with a Crew Dragon. Those plans have been cancelled as SpaceX no longer plans to use the FH for human flights to the moon (or anywhere, even orbit).

Instead they plan on using the BFR for that. I don't know what happens with that deposit that was made. Chances are it rolls over into getting whoever it was a flight on the BFR to the moon.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by nickik on Friday April 13, 2018 @09:31AM (#16829770)
Neither of them did, both plan to.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by buvanshak on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:15AM (#16827987)
This startup is just another vaporware to continue funding SpaceX. The money invested in it will ultimately end up in Spacex as it will be used to send all these satellites into the orbit.

So Spacex just won a client for a long time, and that too at the cost of investors money..

In other words, and elaborate Pyramid scheme...

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by VVyattPrentice on Friday April 13, 2018 @01:36AM (#16827349)
BFR is arguably the biggest risk SpaceX has ever taken.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by varjag on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:20AM (#16827770)
In absolute figures, perhaps. Relatively, Falcon One was by far the biggest risk.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by azernik on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:15AM (#16827744)
Even if that doesn't pan out, SpaceX has a profitable business on its hands.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by Symmetry on Friday April 13, 2018 @08:41AM (#16829409)
They're planning to discontinue Falcon 9 to free up factory space for BFR production while continue launching with their existing stock of reusable rockets. So there's quite a bit of risk there if BFR ends up getting too delayed.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by 282883392 on Friday April 13, 2018 @11:41AM (#16831052)
Can't they just keep making Falcons if they run into delays with BFR?
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by Symmetry on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:32PM (#16832673)
They could but they'd have to retool the converted factory space back to making Falcons and there would certainly be disruptions.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by nickik on Saturday April 14, 2018 @12:01PM (#16837877)
They will not stop producing them until they are sure they can pull of BFR. The CTO has already said that Falcon 9 will be available as long as people ask for them.

By that point where they can no longer produce F9 they plan to have a fleet of Falcon 9 on the books that could continue for quite a while.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by catwell on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:57AM (#16827923)
That, and also I think the satellite market may be in the process of being disrupted, as in: it has become much, much cheaper to build and launch a satellite, in particular with CubeSats.

Often markets where the barrier to entry is lowered this way tend to grow overall, so I don't think it is an unreasonable bet that the size of the satellite launch market will increase in coming years.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by Jdam on Friday April 13, 2018 @12:57AM (#16827217)
Market share is a really fluctuating/bad metric here, as the sample size is so small. This number is not consistent.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by azernik on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:14AM (#16827739)
Looking at the charts, there doesn't seem to be a lot of noise in the data. 80-ish launches a year among all providers isn't that small of a sample size.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by steve_musk on Thursday April 12, 2018 @10:35PM (#16826745)
I think the main thing is their Starlink satellite internet constellation, which I recently saw was estimated to bring in $30 billion/year once it’s fully operational. They also have basically taken over the satellite launch market, and I think their recent progress on the BFR isn’t hurting.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by Robotbeat on Thursday April 12, 2018 @10:50PM (#16826811)
Could be more like hundreds of billions in the very long-term, as they plan to just keep growing it in size, capability, and per-satellite mass. Enabled by BFR.

That’d put SpaceX in league with other telecommunications giants.

That’s, of course, not the only possible outcome, but that’s why the valuation is so high.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by planteen on Thursday April 12, 2018 @11:37PM (#16826966)
Maybe... but I see the system being bandwidth constrained. If each spacecraft is 20 Gbps and how many will be visible over the USA at a time? 50 or so? So 1 Tbps for the entire country? That's less than the capacity of a single neighborhood in Denver on gigabit fiber. Not to mention the capacity of 4G networks across the country. Some of this smells like the first round of Iridium to me.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by Robotbeat on Friday April 13, 2018 @12:05AM (#16827061)
That's just the initial system, and they'll be selling globally, not just in the US. It's still about 10 times the aggregate bandwidth of their nearest competitor (OneWeb) plus the later constellation is going to be much larger and more capable.

Additionally, there should be about 150-200 satellites above the US in the initial deployment.

They also plan to upgrade the satellites themselves (according to SpaceX's Mueller) so they're much larger. That should, in principle, allow them to exceed the per-satellite throughput of GSO birds like Viasat's which are over 1Tbps per bird.

They aren't competing with fiber in Denver. They're competing with high-latency and expensive satellite internet in rural areas. It's possible they may eventually dip into the cities a bit if they sell out their capacity and then build out their VLEO constellation (total of 12,000 or so satellites, but in much lower orbits enabling yet lower latency and higher bandwidth).

But Iridium's problem wasn't a lack of capacity, it was slow customer acquisition combined with very high interest rates and launch prices. If SpaceX fills up their network with customers to its capacity, they will be just fine.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by planteen on Friday April 13, 2018 @12:57AM (#16827221)
Iridium's problem was they didn't know who they were marketing service to. It seemed like a good idea before cell service was common and before roaming agreements. Those things were in place before the constellation was operational. So they tried to target international business travelers and failed. The restart of Iridium succeeded by selling to the US government. I wonder if Starlink has the same problem, at least in the US.

For rural areas, there are wireless ISPs for rural areas here in Colorado where you put an antenna on your roof. You get line of sight to an antenna on a nearby mountain for internet service. I don't see how Starlink can possibly compete with that on a technological or cost basis. It seems like most of the western US could have service like this for many rural markets, if it's not already available.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by Robotbeat on Friday April 13, 2018 @01:09AM (#16827259)
Regular satellite internet already provides price-per-gigabyte that is competitive (or superior to, in the case of Viasat) with mobile internet services. It's the latency that's lacking. With a LEO (and the then VLEO) constellation, Starlink could actually do better than some mobile internet providers as far as latency. 25-35 milliseconds for Starlink (maybe more in some cases) versus like 80-100 milliseconds for LTE providers (much worse for 4G and terrible for 3G).

So I definitely think Starlink could compete in that market. But more as an equal than as the only option.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by jjeaff on Friday April 13, 2018 @01:36AM (#16827348)
Latency? No, the problem is price and data caps.

If SpaceX is going to make huge returns on starlink, they will have to be price competitive with at least the DSL providers that are in many rural communities. Many of your remote rural areas in the US have at least 6 to 10mbps for ~$60 a month, and that's plenty for most casual users. Even for video streaming.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by BigJono on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:04AM (#16828189)
Keep in mind that 6-10mbps isn't going to be enough for casual users in a few years. Take gaming for example. Companies are regularly releasing 6-10 GB patches willy nilly because they assume their customers can download them in a matter of minutes/hours.

And that's now, when there's still large urban areas in a lot of countries on DSL. Once that DSL is phased out, rural areas are going to need better sattelite options or expensive long stretches of fibre to not fall behind the curve.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by Robotbeat on Friday April 13, 2018 @09:27AM (#16829740)
Fixed wireless plans also have data caps, and you can get satellite unlimited plans affordably now (with soft caps, but so does most everyone else), at speeds greater than DSL.

The main issue for rural satellite access is no longer bandwidth or even data caps but latency.

And if you have DSL in rural areas, count yourself lucky.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by planteen on Friday April 13, 2018 @08:53AM (#16829476)
I'm not talking about competing with mobile networks. I'm talking about fixed wireless service.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by bparsons on Friday April 13, 2018 @01:12AM (#16827274)
What about places with no mountains?

What about mobile users?

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by planteen on Friday April 13, 2018 @09:05AM (#16829580)
Antennas on towers, like for cell networks.

Starlink doesn't work for mobile users, either.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by ethbro on Thursday April 12, 2018 @11:50PM (#16827008)
The key point is that, if the satellites are cheap enough, they're a safety valve for surplus rocket supply. Or padding if schedules don't make for full payloads.

Essentially seeding their own demand in a market that didn't previously exist (cheaper launch on reused rockets).

As a side benefit, they get the ability to put a constellation in orbit (and continue adding to it) at a fraction of the cost of their telecom competitors.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by Robotbeat on Friday April 13, 2018 @12:09AM (#16827075)
Yeah, if Starlink merely breaks even (and continues to grow), they will have pushed the commercial launch market potentially one or two orders of magnitude larger (in terms of mass) than it is today. It'll help pay for BFR, their Mars rocket.

Therefore, if Starlink suffers the same fate as Iridium (but without damaging the rest of SpaceX), that would actually be a big net win. Iridium emerged from bankruptcy, turned a profit and launched replacement satellites and is now in the process of a huge constellation refresh, using SpaceX's reusable rockets. If that happens with Starlink, that would be a complete success for creating launch demand.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by seiferteric on Thursday April 12, 2018 @11:45PM (#16826998)
I was thinking recently.. once you have data uplink anywhere on the planet, whats stopping them from blanketing the planet in cell phone towers and taking over that industry as well? They won't be limited by where you can run fiber like the other guys.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by hyperpallium on Friday April 13, 2018 @01:00AM (#16827230)
In super high density areas, fibre is going to be cheaper and faster and more easily maintained and upgraded etc than satellites
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by lev99 on Friday April 13, 2018 @01:26AM (#16827320)
I think "super high density" is probably hyperbolic. As density increases shared airwaves become more crowded and wired infrastructure becomes cheaper to operate. I can see wired internet being competitive for a long time. Even in places more like St. Louis than Manhattan.

I choose where to live because I can have two different fiber connections (for speed and a failsafe). How long will it be before satellite internet offers 2gbps symmetrical with low latency at reasonable prices?

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by jjeaff on Friday April 13, 2018 @01:41AM (#16827367)
The use case of someone who needs two gigabit fiber connections to their residence is exceedingly tiny and would have no bearing at all on spacex's market.

I can hardly imagine a situation where internet access is so critical at a home that you need two fiber lines anyway. I have probably had 2 hours of downtime in the past 3 years with my cable connection.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by Robotbeat on Friday April 13, 2018 @09:32AM (#16829783)
Starlink is intended to provide 1Gbps service to end users with low latency, especially if you’re accessing sites on the other side of the world.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by analognoise on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:14AM (#16827738)
Are you camping out at the datacenter again?
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by greglindahl on Friday April 13, 2018 @12:40AM (#16827165)
Providing backhaul for rural cell towers is expected to be a big part of Starlink's business, yes. Same for O3b and Oneweb.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by examancer on Thursday April 12, 2018 @10:32PM (#16826731)
Pretty sure the are just banking on SpaceX dominating the global space launch services market for the next few years. Signs increasingly point to this being a safe bet.

The valuation is higher than the annual global launch market, but below what it's projected to reach in the next few years. If SpaceX can maintain their current share of the global market for a few years the valuation may be conservative.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by scottie_m on Thursday April 12, 2018 @10:36PM (#16826754)
It’s probably less about fighting in space, and more about rapid transport, and cheaper (and therefore more) sattelites for a number of purposes. It’s hard to imagine that intelligence and military agencies aren’t thrilled with the idea of being able to lift more mass for less money. That’s true for everyone other than defense and espionage though; cheaper launches raise all boats.

Fortunately with our level of technological advancement, actually fighting in space is just dumb. Fighting from space could be useful, but would break treaty obligations with other spacefaring, nuclear powers.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by ben_w on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:23AM (#16828281)
I thought the only treaties affecting weapons in space were specific to nuclear explosives?
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by vasili111 on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:05AM (#16827460)
Is there anything bad to be defense contractor of your country?
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by jlangenauer on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:37AM (#16827582)
A purely "defense" contractor, protecting the country itself? No, nothing wrong with that.

But what is euphemistically called "defense" is far more often about offense - attacking those countries and people who displease or are inconvenient to you, making sure the world is structure to suit your* interests, usually at the expense of the interests, and often the lives of people elsewhere in the world.

* - In reality, the interests of the elite of your country.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by vasili111 on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:57AM (#16827672)
What about protecting yourself and allies?
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by imtringued on Friday April 13, 2018 @04:36AM (#16828076)
By actively seeking conflict you are increasing the risk of retaliation. That's the opposite of protecting yourself.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by jononor on Friday April 13, 2018 @08:56AM (#16829502)
But good for business!
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by pierre on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:38AM (#16827589)
As a defense contractor, you build stuff that end up killing people. Especially if your country is aggressive toward others / have imperialist view.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by vasili111 on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:02AM (#16827694)
What about if that country especially helps other countries to fight for there freedom and protects them from imperialist view countries and with that saves lives in that countries?
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by lallysingh on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:27AM (#16827798)
Who's that?
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by vasili111 on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:35AM (#16827839)
My country Georgia received a help from the USA and EU countries when Russia invaded us. Their help saved lots of Georgian people lives. Another example Ukraine, USA and EU countries are helping Ukraine to defend themselves against Russia. Only people that never saw real war think that improving the defense of their country is "killing people" when in reality it is opposite.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by whiskers08xmt on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:07AM (#16828207)
Realities get murky when you talk geo-politics. Some times it's in the interest of the US, to protect the self-determination of a nation, especially when it goes against the interests of a geo-political adversary. We see this with your country, Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, etc.

At other times, it means selling F-16s, Apaches and munitions to Saudi Arabia, so they can carry out a brutal bombing campaign in Yemen. There are no good or evil regional powers, only national interests and the smaller nations which either get in the way of those, or help you achieve them.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by moccachino on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:47AM (#16828397)
>There are no good or evil regional powers, only national interests and the smaller nations which either get in the way of those, or help you achieve them.

Be that as it may, it still matters how the people in power think and behave. Some systems of government are better suited to reduce violence than others. For example, a dictator is probably more likely to order military intervention than a person who has to justify their actions to advisors, a congress and eventually a whole nation.

Obviously as you say things get murky when there are large interests at stake and no side is wholly good or wholly evil, but still some can be more wrong than others.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by rorykoehler on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:41AM (#16827605)
I don't have a country. That's a manmade concept that is forced upon me against my will.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by ben_w on Friday April 13, 2018 @05:17AM (#16828254)
I feel the same way — my identity is not at all attached to the nationality listed in my passport — but in the context of working for a defence-sector corporation, the argument still applies. Whoever the corporation sells stuff to is, for the purpose of the argument, “your” country.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by vasili111 on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:05AM (#16827704)
So no one is protecting your rights and property? There are no emergency service, firefighters and other public services that you directly benefit from?
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by rorykoehler on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:42AM (#16827862)
There are and i happily pay my taxes but not happy about them being spent to kill people id probably be friends with if i met them in real life.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by nickik on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:08PM (#16832442)
So if somebody breaks into yoir house takes your money you cant complain because that guy sometimes cleans the house or buys cable?

Accusing people who are not pro-government of hypocracy because the use public services is absurd.

You cant not pay my taxes and opt out of government services.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by adwn on Friday April 13, 2018 @02:55AM (#16827663)
> I don't have a country.

Is there a country in which spend the majority of your time? If yes, then that's your country. Don't like it? Move to another one or get politically active.

> That's a manmade concept that is forced upon me against my will.

Nearly everything in our day-to-day lives is a manmade concept – that doesn't make it any less real.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by rorykoehler on Friday April 13, 2018 @03:40AM (#16827854)
>Is there a country in which spend the majority of your time?

That changes regularly enough. Just because i like a place doesn't mean it's my country.

I think you're conflating geography with political structures. I feel at home everywhere I've been and i don't quite understand the insatiable jingoism because all places and people are great and not so great in equal measure for various reasons. That said I'm not naive enough to expect it to change and if it were to change i can't really even see a pathway for that to happen. It only takes one person to spit in the punch to ruin it for everyone.

Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by asdsa5325 on Thursday April 12, 2018 @11:00PM (#16826854)
Yes and no. SpaceX's main revenue generator at the moment is sending satellites (government and non-government) into space. They will likely always get revenue with this, but it's not their end goal for profitability.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by ChuckMcM on Thursday April 12, 2018 @10:38PM (#16826761)
No. I think this is people thinking that SpaceX is going to capture more market share from ULA and Ariannespace.
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by bmc7505 on Thursday April 12, 2018 @11:51PM (#16827013)
It’s called Space Fleet dammit!
Re:SpaceX's Valuation Climbs to $25B with New Funding Round by pacala on Thursday April 12, 2018 @10:26PM (#16826714)
Crickets