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Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by jcwayne on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @01:02PM (#16756660)
Serious question for those who agree with this petition. Which country's military would you like to see be the most technologically advanced in 20 years?
Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by sseth on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @01:48PM (#16757124)
As an Indian, I hope it is the USA. At the end of the day, it has to be a multi-ethnic, multi-cultural democracy or I fear for what the world will become. And I say that even while agreeing that many military actions the US has taken in the past have been terrible.

Note : I do not agree with the petition, but the question was too tempting.

Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by IAmEveryone on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @01:31PM (#16756948)
I'd vote for Belgium.

More seriously: the US has nuclear weapons, rendering them safe from any direct confrontation with enemies challenging them technologically.

They have a conventional military 10x the size needed for the sort of intervention that actually succeeded in the past (the Balkans, the first Gulf war). The rather unsuccessful wars (Afghanistan, Iraq) were lost not for technological reasons or any other dimension of military might, but because the US military sucks at convincing people of the benefits of democracy.

Want to win the next ten wars? Put the money into Hollywood blockbusters and the world's best Halal fast food chain.

Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by friedman23 on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @01:47PM (#16757115)
>I'd vote for Belgium.

I always laugh when people suggest these meek tiny European states should be in charge of running the world and how much more civilized they are. The reality is that these countries aren't meek by choice and we already know from history what a country like Belgium would do if given a tiny sliver of power.

Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by givehimagun on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @02:38PM (#16757610)
I would focus on the word tiny in your statement. America has to solve problems at scale. California has 3 million more people than Canada.

America is a federation of 50 states. The EU is trying to become a federation of the European states.

Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by gaius on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @01:51PM (#16757151)
I'd vote for Belgium.

Belgian atrocities in the Congo suggests that would be a very, very poor choice

Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by exolymph on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @02:12PM (#16757360)
By the "atrocities in the past" metric, any country would be a bad choice. The Trail of Tears comes to mind.
Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by gaius on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @02:35PM (#16757571)
New Zealand might be OK
Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by Mandatum on Monday April 09, 2018 @01:55AM (#16790728)
Look up Black Saturday. But by and large, we're not nearly as bad as most countries.
Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by roywiggins on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @02:18PM (#16757416)
Well, not any country. Fiji would be fine.
Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by jacquesm on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @02:25PM (#16757484)
Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by chatmasta on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @02:06PM (#16757303)
You might be interested in the book The Seventh Sense: Power, Fortune, and Survival in the Age of Networks. The author builds a thesis around the idea that one can understand the next wave of power as a network problem. He presents the loss of the Iraq war within this framework, as a failure on the part of a conventional military to adapt to the new forms of influence, communication and organization enabled by dense networks.
Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by IAmEveryone on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @03:36PM (#16758170)
Yeah, maybe...

I think the problems are far easier to explain. Watching the documentary Restrepo, I was surprised to see how terrifyingly stupid American GIs are at anything but actual warfare.

The most telling scene was a meeting they had with the local "elders". This was in one of the most isolated valleys, even by Afghani standards. They were talking about a road to be build, and promising jobs for the locals.

Yet it was absolutely clear that these villagers did not even share the concept of a "job". They were goat herders mostly, and possibly some farmers. I'd bet that not one of them is a wage-earning employee or worker. They simply tend to their family's animals.

"Trade" is probably understood in these places, "jobs" is not. They tried to win over the local population with promises entirely based on an American POV.

In larger cities, such promises might have had a better chance to succeed. But I think it's instructive to look at the only people whose "hearts & minds^ the US actually managed to win: translators and other local employees tend to be the US' most ardent supporters. That's maybe due to the money they got, yes. And there's some selection bias at play, as well. But if I had to guess, I'd say simple, honest day-to-day social contact had the most influence.

I think the Us military should form a brigade entirely made up of hippies that can play instruments, like to talk to strangers, can play soccer and basketball, grow weed, and are good petting dogs and getting children to smile.

Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by bigbluedots on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @07:36PM (#16760353)
It is probably hard to convince people of the benefits of democracy while killing those people, inadvertently or otherwise.
Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by awakeasleep on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @01:08PM (#16756721)
Doesn't the fact that this is another step towards autonomous killing machines complicate your view of this?

A lot of Silicon Valley's justification for its immoral actions rests on the _belief_ of the inevitability of outcomes. It's ok to monopolize and centralize everything, discarding the lives of people who are negatively impacted because it's inevitable. It's ok to make robots able to kill people better because it's inevitable, etc.

The thing is, it's a _belief_ that this is inevitable — not a proven fact of nature. And people who don't believe in it will logically withdraw their cooperation from building that future.

Both sides are 'proving' their point of view. If enough people object, then it wasn't inevitable after all. If enough people work to bring us into that future, maybe it was. But thats the struggle and moral choice we face.

Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by coryfklein on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @02:34PM (#16757563)
I find it pretty easy to believe that other countries will continue to funnel money into military operations even if the US slows or stops.

No, I can't prove that. But it seems like a very reasonable belief to have. What reason do you have to believe that it won't be so?

Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by larkeith on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @06:09PM (#16759705)
The reason to believe it won't be so is the same reason not all tragedies of the common end in resource exhaustion - cooperation is possible, especially in such an internationally-connected industry as software development.

From a less grassroots perspective, international regulations and sanctions tend to be fairly effective.

Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by ihsw2 on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @01:11PM (#16756756)
The free world does have enemies! We must seek them out!
Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by larkeith on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @06:00PM (#16759632)
This feels like Begging the Question - your post implies that AI targeting will:

A) not be developed without support from Google, which is categorically untrue; The DoD might simply find it more difficult to acquire top talent if that talent is opposed to the work on philosophical grounds.

And B) be necessary for the US military to remain the most advanced and/or powerful in 20 years, which is also exceptionally doubtful - unless you believe ML to have such effective wartime applications as to render a nearly threefold larger military budget (compared to China, the next largest) moot.

Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by JustAnotherPat on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @01:52PM (#16757163)
After a certain point it's irrelevant. Soviets developed the Tsar Bomba; should the US have tried to one up them?
Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by bpicolo on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @02:21PM (#16757448)
We did one up them, over and over again - just with strategies other than "make one bigger bomb".
Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by YetAnotherNick on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @07:25PM (#16760289)
Really? How? You can say that world has more impact due to US's military, but how has russia been one uped ever?
Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by bpicolo on Thursday April 05, 2018 @09:14AM (#16764553)
There's a crap ton of tech in the military world, and the US is generally the most advanced at a lot of it. Both public knowledge (F-22/F-35, THAAD, aircraft carriers) and all the other sorts of crap - satellites/surveillance tech, software (stuxnet), whatever. The arms race never stopped, it's just not about making singularly bigger bombs anymore, because they're plenty big to destroy the whole planet many times over.

The US isn't spending 800 billion a year on nothing.

Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by jackaroe78 on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @08:04PM (#16760531)
The US did it with significantly fewer bullets to the back of necks & babies going hungry.
Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by Asdfbla on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @01:49PM (#16757135)
There's certainly enough opportunity to work for a more peaceful world instead - scenarios where two large military powers clash should probably better be avoided anyway, so it's probably even a more productive use of one's time than optimizing for yet another variant of mutually assured destruction.
Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by coryfklein on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @02:36PM (#16757592)
Pacifism is all well and good when the other guy doesn't want to kill you. Until we get to that point, I'm happy with the US policy of having an overwhelmingly dominant force as a deterrent.
Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by PunchTornado on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @03:02PM (#16757815)
None. I would like most of them to stay unadvanced.
Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by YetAnotherNick on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @07:22PM (#16760273)
This sums up the entire event in one sentence. Deflecting the question and continue to live in some inconsistent bubble.
Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by Zeebrommer on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @04:34PM (#16758770)
There will always be one most advanced though.
Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by piker on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @01:30PM (#16756939)
Switzerland
Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by JorgeGT on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @04:02PM (#16758462)
The Blackwater of the Middle Ages. Still providing mercenaries to guard Europe's last absolute monarch.
Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by stale2002 on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @01:43PM (#16757062)
I don't particularly care.

Nukes are enough to stop any war from happening between any of the most powerful countries in the world.

What else do we even need?

The various factions in the various civil wars around the world can kill themselves in their own war, and we shouldn't be a part of it killing even more people.

Re:Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. P... by mantas on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @03:44PM (#16758265)
What about smaller countries without the nukes? Fall to the next door neighbour, regardless if you like their regime or not?