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Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by jMyles on Monday March 12, 2018 @04:17PM (#16571139)
Domestic flights? Wow.

Since this is a different agency than typically conducts (similarly intrusive and seemingly illegal) searches in the case of international flights, I wonder if they are following a common protocol? If so, who creates that?

I'm about to fly internationally for the first time in a while; anybody have any advice on how to handle my devices?

Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by akl on Monday March 12, 2018 @04:22PM (#16571196)
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by ep103 on Monday March 12, 2018 @04:20PM (#16571164)
hidden partitions, and/or storing all your important data off-device are the two pieces of advice that get suggested the most.
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by lisper on Monday March 12, 2018 @04:26PM (#16571243)
I would strongly recommend the latter. Hidden partitions are trivial to find.

I recommend one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/MyDigitalSSD-480GB-SuperSpeed-Portabl...

Keep it encrypted and in your pocket.

Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by benmmurphy on Monday March 12, 2018 @05:46PM (#16571974)
The bigger problem with hidden partitions is the TSA agent asks you if there is a hidden partition and then if they are able to find out they you have lied you have committed a crime.
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by gumby on Monday March 12, 2018 @06:37PM (#16572343)
> TSA agent asks you ... and then if they are able to find out they you have lied you have committed a crime.

Not sure that's the case: TSA agents are not police or any other law enforcement any more than the gate agent is,and can't make arrests or anything like that. Pretty sure you can say what you like (though please, be polite!).

I once pulled out my phone to photograph the badge of an agent who was particularly obnoxious, not just to me but to others. I planned to fill out the complaint card. He freaked out, told me photography was not allowed, grabbed me by the arm and called for the cop. The cop came over and told him in no uncertain terms to let go of me, that photography is fine, asked me if I got a clear photo and made sure I got a photo of the badge. And handed me a complaint form. I assume he already knew that the TSA guy was a jerk.

Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by DanBC on Monday March 12, 2018 @07:13PM (#16572537)
> TSA agents are not police or any other law enforcement any more than the gate agent is,and can't make arrests or anything like that. Pretty sure you can say what you like (though please, be polite!).

Aren't TSA agents government, federal, employees?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001?qt-us_code_t...

> Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully—

> (1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact;

> (2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or

> (3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry;

Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by codezero on Monday March 12, 2018 @06:39PM (#16572351)
Does this provide a layer of security outside of say, adding a strong password to your phone and keeping it powered off, assuming my phone's data is encrypted?
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by lisper on Monday March 12, 2018 @06:47PM (#16572403)
Yes. It provides protection against monkey wrench attacks.

https://xkcd.com/538/

Of course the TSA is not so unsubtle as to actually hit you with a wrench, but they have other ways of making your life miserable.

Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by codezero on Monday March 12, 2018 @11:00PM (#16573623)
How? They can also plug your usb drive in and say, “unlock it or else wrench...”

Maybe I’m being obtuse but can you explain how it protects against a wrench attack?

Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by lisper on Tuesday March 13, 2018 @01:41AM (#16574068)
The idea is to stop them from suspecting that you even have it in your possession.
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by colejohnson66 on Tuesday March 13, 2018 @12:40AM (#16573901)
Preventing you from boarding your plane for starters
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by codezero on Tuesday March 13, 2018 @01:41AM (#16574070)
I don’t understand. Can’t they do this whether I have an encrypted phone or an encrypted usb drive?
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by dharmab on Monday March 12, 2018 @05:58PM (#16572062)
TSA makes you empty your pockets when going through security.
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by lisper on Monday March 12, 2018 @06:41PM (#16572370)
Hm, good point. I forgot about that because I have pre-check.

So maybe one of these instead:

https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-microSDXC-Adapter-MB-MC256GA-...

Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by ac29 on Monday March 12, 2018 @08:37PM (#16572966)
Even pocket lint will show up on the Backscatter machines in use in US airports. I know, I've been pulled aside for it.
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by oh_sigh on Monday March 12, 2018 @06:51PM (#16572421)
They're not exactly trivial to find - but they are trivial to use. Why not use one if you are concerned?
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by lisper on Monday March 12, 2018 @07:00PM (#16572471)
> They're not exactly trivial to find

I guess it depends on your definition of "trivial", but I wouldn't want to bet my privacy on the TSA's inability to locate a hidden partition any more than I would want to bet it on their basic honesty and respect for my Constitutional rights.

Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by bibhjbdjbd on Monday March 12, 2018 @04:30PM (#16571279)
Most people access email through their phone.

Giving up your phone also means they get a complete copy of your email.

If you use a VPN to access company servers they will swoop up that information as well, and by extension all server side data your VPN credentials Grant access.

They may not be doing all that, but it's only a matter of time and knowledge given their lack of constraints.

Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by eli on Monday March 12, 2018 @04:27PM (#16571255)
Presumably whatever forensic tools they have will easily detect hidden partitions.

The advice I hear for international travelers is disk encryption + FedEx'ing your laptop to its destination.

Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by pishpash on Monday March 12, 2018 @05:14PM (#16571701)
Whole disk encryption should really be standard. No point deleting data if it's encrypted. At that point it's more clear-cut in becoming whether you surrender a key or not, no gray zones.
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by AlexCoventry on Monday March 12, 2018 @05:05PM (#16571613)
> easily detect hidden partitions.

Even hidden volumes in encrypted partitions? Has that feature of VeraCrypt been cracked?

https://www.veracrypt.fr/en/Hidden%20Volume.html

Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by DanBC on Monday March 12, 2018 @07:20PM (#16572579)
It's a big bunch of random noise. Of course it's trivially easy to see the drive image is not like other drive images, which is all they're looking for. Go to jail until you hand over the passphrase.
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by AlexCoventry on Monday March 12, 2018 @10:11PM (#16573425)
Hidden volumes, though, enable you to place what theoretically appears to be a big bunch of random noise (unless you know the key) in an even bigger bunch of random noise with a legitimate, demonstrable purpose (an encrypted volume.)
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by marshray on Tuesday March 13, 2018 @12:47AM (#16573917)
Would you seriously attempt to convince US government agents that your 512 GB hard drive contains only a 256 GB filesystem because you're a random noise enthusiast?
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by AlexCoventry on Tuesday March 13, 2018 @01:57PM (#16578172)
It looks like there's 512GB of space committed, but contains less than 256GB of content. There is no protection against the hidden volume being overwritten, if the content in the explicit volume grows too large.
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by sandworm101 on Monday March 12, 2018 @04:31PM (#16571289)
They dont use tools. For inspection of random phones from non-suspects they just poke around by hand. Only when they find something do they employ actual tools.
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by mulmen on Monday March 12, 2018 @04:39PM (#16571377)
Do you have a source on this? Preferably one that will be updated if the policy and practices change?

The only safe assumption is the worst case.

Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by testvox on Monday March 12, 2018 @04:49PM (#16571466)
Why would they do this rather than simply image the device? How do you know what their protocol is?
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by sandworm101 on Monday March 12, 2018 @05:26PM (#16571813)
Because opening a phone and looking at the first few texts/emails is faster than imaging. One cannot take a phone and properly image it in the 5-10 minutes they spend with the average phone.
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by figgis on Monday March 12, 2018 @06:20PM (#16572222)
10 minutes is more then enough time to image most devices. Various groups have had stuff like this around for quite a while now. http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/34/3458.asp
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by mylons on Monday March 12, 2018 @06:03PM (#16572101)
potentially naive question, but doesn't apple encrypt devices? and will my iphone X be good if i refuse to open it for law enforcement?
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by saagarjha on Monday March 12, 2018 @06:09PM (#16572143)
Sure, if you remember to disable Face ID before going through the checkpoint. Good luck getting on the plane after refusing to unlock it with a passcode, though.
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by thisacctforreal on Monday March 12, 2018 @09:14PM (#16573149)
You can instruct the Secure Enclave to forget your passcode by rapidly pressing the power button 5 times. This inherently disables Face ID and Touch ID.

Just make sure you have Auto Call off in Settings > Emergency SOS, or it'll automatically dial 911.

Also, you can have a digit pin code longer than 6 digits by using a passphrase with only digits.

Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by paxunix on Tuesday March 13, 2018 @12:55AM (#16573937)
Are you a white, casually-dressed male with an American-sounding name? If so, it is very unlikely your devices will be scrutinized at all. Outside of that, the probability increases (sometimes by a lot). Hacker News likes to see the long arm of the law reaching into their personal lives where it almost never does. This isn't to say we should like--nor even tolerate--when it does, but you can probably just pack all your usual travel items as you normally would for a domestic flight, and simply be on your way, unmolested.

Are you trying to bring 3 phones, 2 laptops, a tablet, 4 chargers, and assorted other electronics with you? Be prepared for the long arm to reach into your life because you're attracting suspicion. You would be attracting suspicion even without the current political climate, because that much equipment is outside the bounds of normal for your average traveller.

Be an average traveller and no one will give you a second glance.

Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by arca_vorago on Monday March 12, 2018 @04:29PM (#16571275)
Stop flying so much and tell them when the time comes fuckoff and come back with a warrant or at least get an officer who can explain under what authority do they conduct domestic searches without a warrant, ergo, unconstitutionally?

Ah, you know what, I get it. They want to bring back the 90's cryptowars. They will lose again.

Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by reaperducer on Monday March 12, 2018 @04:40PM (#16571380)
> Stop flying so much and tell them when the time comes fuckoff and come back with a warrant

In other words, stop flying completely. Because with that reaction, you're not getting in the plane.

Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by logfromblammo on Monday March 12, 2018 @05:18PM (#16571746)
But at least your settlements will pay for your lawyers and bus fare after a few years of foot-dragging litigation.
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by graeme on Monday March 12, 2018 @04:48PM (#16571459)
This is terribly dangerous advice for a border crossing.
Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by leggomylibro on Monday March 12, 2018 @04:52PM (#16571505)
On the other hand, a big part of nonviolent resistance as preached by figures like Gandhi and MLK Jr. is acknowledging that your actions may get you detained by a civil power. You'd be relying on the arbitrary, capricious, and in your view reprehensible nature of the charges to sway public opinion and stoke outrage.

It's not good advice if you are an individual who just wants to avoid the inside of a prison cell, and it's definitely dangerous, but I'd still admire anyone with the strength of character to follow through with it.

It's also terrible advice in countries where the preferred solution is simply to murder loud activists. At least you can theoretically be released from prison.

Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by graeme on Monday March 12, 2018 @05:41PM (#16571921)
That's true, and a good point. And if someone tried to organize a movement to resist capricious border treatment, I think that would be laudable.

I'm less sure about an individual reading that advice and swearing at a border guard. Both Ghandi and MLK used mass resistance to achieve their ends.

Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by Chaebixi on Monday March 12, 2018 @05:12PM (#16571678)
Depends on who you are, whose border, and which direction.

If you're an American returning from abroad, my understanding is the most they can do is detain you (briefly) and confiscate your electronic devices for a limited period of time. Americans can't be denied re-entry to the US. So go ahead and refuse as a political statement, the worst that could happen is you'll miss your connection and you'll have to use a temporary phone for a bit.

But if you're a foreign citizen, it's probably best to swallow your pride and comply.

Re:Questions for TSA after reports of laptop and phone searc... by toomuchtodo on Monday March 12, 2018 @05:18PM (#16571739)
As it relates to an American returning from abroad, it doesn't appear what "briefly" means. From about 5 minutes of Googling, it appears anywhere up to 12 hours of detention is possible (based on a 2008 CBP internal memo).

Detentions have lasted more than 24 hours though, sometimes for days:

"Median Number of Hours Individuals Were Held in Detention, by Sector"

https://i.imgur.com/MNYTJzF.png