You go to SF to launch your career then GTFO ASAP to a less 'enlightened' part of the US where you don't have to worry about hyper sensitivity and your dollar actually counts for something.

It depends. The big X tech companies, and hot unicorns in the bay area pay crazy salaries for engineers.

3k a month doesn't seem too bad when you are making 200k+, which is close to ~triple what you'd make in some rando mid sized city.

Working for the average SF startup though? Yeah, you'd be better off somewhere else.

Whenever I look at cost of living comparison it doesn't seem advantageous to me to be in SV unless you get lucky on equity ( how do you even measure that? ).

$150k in Dallas is something like $265k in San Francisco. And I would think in SF your housing would be pitiful compared to the midwest at $3k/month mortgage.

Engineers at my company can make upwards of $300k in Dallas and that gives a standard of living thats comparable to making $1m in the valley which is probably pretty rare.

What company in Dallas pays over $300k for engineers?

What sort of company pays engineers $300k in Dallas?

Oil and gas, and finance, to name two I’m familiar with.

Are that many SF tech workers making over 200 grand a year?

I hope so. If they aren’t then they would be better off finding work in some other part of the country.

Pretty sure that not too many. Some do, but again, most are capped at about 180k (that if with 7+ years of experience) For some stock options make a difference, but again, that is if you're lucky

The ones at the big tech companies and hot unicorns are.

The ones at your rando tech startup are not.

And yet, the housing market still makes buying prohibitive in that same region.

I can't speak for LA, but from the people I've spoken with Seattle and -maybe- Austin have the strongest ratio of tech work vs. cost of living.

Seattle is pretty nice, especially if you can ignore the random junkies and homeless tent and RV encampments around town.

Oh no, the last time I visited Seattle was in 2010. Has it gone to shit since then?

Seattle's so full, it's budding into Portland.

I might be jaded but this sort've depends on your point of view. I grew up in San Diego, would weekend with friends in LA, and I've got family across the country. Most large cities that don't have overly deadly weather seem to have a visible homeless population.

Nowadays LA is much worse than SF in terms of homeless people.

What nonsense. Sure, the valley can teach you some new JavaScript frameworks and how to best invade your users privacy to sell ads, but real programming happens everywhere. There’s plenty of ways to launch your career without working for Zuckerberg or Bezos.

I ask for one (1) example, that does not include any software hubs that mimic the valley (this includes Austin, New York, Boston, and Seattle, but is not limited to), that has an equal, or close to equal, impact on your career in comparison to the Bay Area.

The only thing the valley has going for it is the saturation of talent and people who hire talent. The bad, is that without it it's got nothing to really show for itself (save a few niche items). The good, is the lack of any other notable qualities is overshadowed by the overcompensation of the only ones it has.

The topic was tech careers. I don't believe Citadel does any algo/prop work that could fall under the umbrella of tech. Off-topic: I'm from the East and #FreeMadix

You’re just in denial now, you’ve clearly had plenty of the Valley’s koolaid. It’s hilarious that you don’t think the worlds largest market maker isn’t doing “algo/prop work that could fall under the umbrella of tech.” Don’t be afraid to leave your bubble.

What a twist of fate. I find myself holding your exact same thoughts, but yet I try to mimic the community and "fit in."

All I'm saying is that Citadel is no Rennaisance. It's not LTCM or Medallion. Maybe it's like Boston, but sure it ain't as beneficial as the valley. If there were spoiler tags, I would tell you what I really think, but I don't want to be a Pats fan at a Steelers game.

I mean, Citadel is far more secretive than any of the companies in the valley. Just because you don't see the innovation doesn't mean it isn't happening. Citadel pays salaries on par with the valley and is widely respected in the hft space -- it's a very good place to start a tech career.

Then the next question is, how are you supposed to start your career if you don't know about it? I half kid, but it's neat to hear. I haven't been a part of the buyside for a while, so it's more than likely Citadel's gotten some internal clout in the quant scene since them.

I never said SF was the only way to launch a career and tend to agree with you. Still, there is no denying the power of having a big name on your resume when looking for the next job.

I don’t know about you, but when I review resumes I look at what they’ve done, not what brand names I recognize. Frankly, when I see a name from the Valley such as Facebook, I assume it’s a script kiddie web developer who’s primary experience revolves around NodeJS.

Eh, I don't think it is required. Probably better to work on being likable so people think you're more than just a skillset in the interview.

Eh, compare relative costs/relative income and cultural factors. Most of the people I know here in the south bay, if they rent, get some place reasonably nice all to themselves for around that kind of money, and the south bay is better for tech jobs, and at least for me, a much better 'culture fit' - That's the thing; I feel at home here in ways I've never felt at home anywhere else, and I'll pay extra for that.

Things are expensive, but wages are also really high, (I don't know a lot of people in the computer industry for whom $2400 in rent would cause pain.) and I have a great deal of freedom because there are so many nearby employers. there's got to be at least 50 places that might hire me as a programmer or sysadmin within reasonable walking distance. I have to go further than that to get a decent burger! (which is my big complaint about this place; so little nightlife, so little food. But most of the employers feed you, and for weekends there are good delivery services, so it's not that bad.)

San Francisco (and California, to a lessor extent) is setup to charge newcomers way more than long time residents. The density of employers in the bay area means that you can find your place... and just stay there, through many job changes.

I spent a couple weeks in the bay area recently, touring around, seeing what it's all about. I left feeling quite underwhelmed and pretty happy I don't live there.

Those are some extremely skewed numbers. I live in a $1.7k one bedroom. Rent is like 10% of my pay and I'm just 2 years out of college. No student debt because my family is poor. San Francisco is an amazing place for technies if you're not bad with money

Just because you found a good situation doesn’t mean that is typical.

You're saying you make ~200k/year 2 years out of college? That is not normal.

Don't believe it! maybe salary + stock options + benifits - that's a possibility (even though a pretty rare one). But 200k cash, BS, no employer would pay that to someone with 2 years of experience... One exception is if that guy possesses some unique skills of some hype industry (blockchain, AI, VR), but that really a very unique situation. Most of people here make around $130k/year + some stock options/rsu's

No, it's $210k cash. Additional RSUs and bonuses up to $70+ depending on company and individual performance.

No hype. I work harder than anyone else and complete projects at least twice as fast. I constantly push for promotion and raises and hop jobs to get the raise.

You definitely hustling :) Can you share what kind of tech work you do? And how often you hop jobs?

Is this in San Fransisco proper or the outskirts? I've been looking around as I may potentially be moving and can't find anything reasonable under 2.3k that isn't roomsharing

20 mins fron downtown

No, it isn't.

Join an org doing something cool, then immediately start pushing to work remote. Or make sure that you'll see a good payout and cash out & gtfo.

Accumulating 100k in student loans isn't the right move, let alone the American Dream.

The "American Dream" isn't follow an exploitive option just because it's possible.

It is if your future job pays well enough and you can do the basic Math to figure that out.

Not to make you question it further, but after living in the Bay for a long time, I can't wait to leave. I seriously don't think it's a place worth living.

Save as much as possible, and get out. Getting paid a lot means you will save a lot regardless.

Read your own comment again. It seems you already have your answer.

Nobody here ever seems to bring it up, but in addition to all of the objections raised, I’d add the potential for a truly devastating earthquake.