Exactly. I can't imagine working in an environment like that.
You don't want to hear me playing Smooth by Neil Cicierega[1], and I don't want to hear you playing rap.
A work environment is not the place to be playing music for everyone around you. Constant generic music is the worst part of retail, and that's saying something.
If your goal is to foster creativity and productivity, but all I hear is thump-thump-thump drilling into my head, I'm not going to be either. Even when it's music I love (or music I love working to) I'll still pause it when I'm trying to really understand what's going on in a complex system.
This gave us an opportunity to meet with all the other teams / departments.
Sure, I would rather be at my local microbrewery drinking stout with my friends rather than drink cheap pilsner at work but it has its benefits. There is no way I would have been as close to those people if not for this paid social time.
It also helps the work. Very often people would vent about their projects and other coworkers would listen and come up with quick solutions to their issues. "Oh yeah, X software is a pain in the ass. Did you try doing Z? I had to work with that software at my previous job and doing Z always helped!".
Even in those cultures, I've never ever seen an employer allowing anyone to drink during the rest of the week. Now that would be obscene.
One of the worst aspects IMHO of the US working culture is the blurring of the working/personal divide. Because the consequence is the semi-permanent working state of mind.
Don't get me wrong, I like to get along with my colleagues. But they're that, colleagues, not friends. These events only perpetuate the working vibe and merge it with the after-working-hours.
...paternalistically manage our social lives
...tone-deafly intrude on them
...desperately be a part of them
...co-opt something cool and make it corporate
...do the adult equivalent of turning children's unstructured play time into a scheduled, paid-for playdate/lessons/"extracurriculars"
I'll pick and choose my friends and invite them to beers myself. In a bar. Away from the company offices. So we can talk shit about the management and people we don't like! What fun is life without the hating? (Well whatever, I just betrayed myself as a Gen Xer by being so forthright and gauche as to admit that I recreationally hate on people.)
My employer is not my friend. My friends, I will defend if they're in trouble for the next 40 years. My employer, I will ditch at the very first sign they're in trouble, or making trouble for me. Therefore I think maintaining a separation of "work life" from the private realm is appropriate. Of course, the more your "work is your life," and/or the more the company is actually yours, this applies less. But even in that case I would still recommend a healthy (hygienic) separation of concerns just like with any software system.
Heh, at my last job we always went out to a pub for some burgers and beer on Fridays. 75% of the conversation revolved around exactly this. I found it an important way to decompress and let off steam.
Luckily the companies I've worked at have all been non-drinker friendly as well as drinker friendly. There's always a non-alcoholic option and they've usually tried to make sure people knock off a little early so that anyone with kids etc can join in before they have to leave.
I don't think that companies are under any obligation to avoid having traditions like Friday beers altogether, but, if you're looking to be inclusive, you should probably strive to ensure that there are also plenty of social activities where there is no alcohol present.
I enjoy being able to wind down and have beers the last couple of hours on a friday (in companies that have allowed it). I organise my workload so there is nothing difficult to do then anyway.
Such brash optimism and such little appreciation for the pleasures of life beyond winning.
Not that it makes it alright that anyone has to do that, but I keep that in mind so I don’t lose perspective.
I find this standpoint unacceptable in environments that manage PHI PII or anything else involving people's privacy or financials.
I get your point about the "I'm mature and experienced enough to know when a beer is appropriate" angle. Maybe I'm old fashioned but my dedication to my work goes beyond things like test coverage it goes into the details of how I conduct myself talk and dress when I'm the clock.
I dont want to drive over a bridge or fly on a plane designed by people who dont take a similar level of seriousness to being on the clock.
Not to mention beer tastes better when youre not in front of your flatcreen staring at code. Something to be said for being present in the moment.
I agree with you, and I work with people who think similarly. No one is drinking during the day or getting drunk at work even though there is beer in the refrigerator. I was responding directly to the parent comment about seeing people drunk at work. That's completely unacceptable.
> I dont want to drive over a bridge or fly on a plane designed by people who dont take a similar level of seriousness to being on the clock.
I would be much more worried about lack of sleep leading to issues[1] than if someone had an occasional beer at the end of the day.
[1] https://www.huffingtonpost.com/lissette-calveiro/studies-sho...
I find it hard to believe that any company would allow daytime drinking.
Allow? In some cultures a beer or glass of wine at lunch is perfectly normal. There is also a big difference between having a beer and downing a 6-pack.
I personally would avoid a beer at lunch because it makes me tired, but I wouldn't think much of it if someone had a beer with their lunch.
(Unless it's friday evening and your are working hard while everyone else is at the special beer break.)
If it ever became a problem or someone got shitfaced I'm sure we'd see restrictions put into place quite quickly.
Haven't had a drop of alcohol since January 28th, so no drinking problem here.
My last sentence wasn't sarcasm and this comment of yours prove my point. You are so entrenched in your point of view that you automatically assume stereotypes about me. You are assuming that drinking alcohol === drinking problem and that me "offering you" a sip of quality booze is a proof of alcoholism.
Yes, my comment was "defensive". However, yours was on the offensive. "Drinking in general is a really bad idea" is a pretty wide statement. This makes me suspect that you are the one with issues here. Perhaps that you had negative experiences related to alcohol or alcoholism, making you perceive any consumption of alcohol as negative and dangerous, and that's perfectly fine.
I'm not trying to be insensitive either. You are perfectly in your rights not to like alcohol and to think of it as negative.
The issue is when you allow stereotypes to taint your perceptions of others.
My point of view? Gee. A lot of assumptions there. Sounds like you think you know all about me. Hmm no, I don't assume drinking alcohol===drinking problem. It sounded like the guy you replied to first maybe did. Maybe you thought we're the same person? I didn't say anything about "proof".
Ahhh yes, you have confused me with the first guy. That explains some of your "so entrenched" language. You're mostly talking about what the first guy said, I'll let you take it up with him.
ps Counting the days since you last had a drink doesn't make me feel I was wrong. Good luck with that! I've had alcoholism ruin a couple of friends lives, it's such a terrible thing, so hard to do anything about.
As for counting days, it's merely me remembering my last supper with the family. ;)
Might as well move some of my points here as a reply to you. )
---
Alcohol is a drug indeed.
So is caffeine and so are acetaminophens.
Drugs are not evil, addiction is evil. Drinking quality alcohol helps one manage addiction by replacing quantity for quality.
> Constant generic music is the worst part of retail, and that's saying something.
And getting away from the front-of-house area saturated by muzak doesn't promise much relief, because in the employees-only areas of any blue-collar workplace it's a near-certainty you'll find an FM boombox playing absolutely the worst top-40 station within range. There was a NYT article from a few months ago saying 'employers are starting to play music for their staff, what do we think of this?', basically an enormous shibboleth announcing that none of the people involved had ever worked for minimum wage in their lives.
Do you know how loud "Butterfly Kisses" — apparently the #1 through #40 top song during the time I was doing this — has to be cranked to make it audible over a web-fed offset printer and cutter? I do.
It's like Love Psych. Great idea, great execution, but not something I can listen to very often.
I do like how it brings out the message the Village People intended though. You have to really try to hear what they're saying in the original.
Is the implication that I said that?
Otherwise agreed, silence is great. I find my concentration varies throughout the day, and when I'm most focused I prefer silence. When I'm least focused, music helps bump me up to a productive level. And in the middle, it can go either way.
Well... there went my evening... a youtube playlist and a wikipedia article later... plus a rewatch of Potter Puppet Pals...
That's one oddly talented dude.
I can see the benefits for small teams/companies but at that point why not just commute from home and save the money?
Of course, this only worked because the work I was doing during those times also required very little coordination and communication with other people. I'm introverted enough that if I have my own space but need to get out of it to talk to someone, I'll find myself procrastinating doing that.
Having a shared open plan office makes it harder for me to focus, but easier for me to interact with people. I'm not sure if that's a net win for my productivity or not.
The best people on a project should be on the least important parts. The second best people lead the important projects, and thus grow to the best. In the mean time the best people are on something that isn't that important anyway, so if someone has a question there is no reason not to interrupt them and ask. This also leaves your best people free for when marketing has another "great idea" so they can ask before promising the impossible (and in some cases they can get something now instead of waiting for the entire project cycle)
I'm at a WeWork now and I'm far more productive than the time I spent working in a quiet home. I speak to people here who love it, I speak to people here who hate it. One of the best things about being in 'tech' is unless you're terrible, you can probably find somewhere to work that better fits how you like to work :-)
Do any of the bigger tech companies offer quiet space? As in somewhere you can work without all the 'cool'? Seems like it would be quite a selling point for some.
I guess, at least as relates to the tech industry, given the treatment of women, this isn't far off?
What do you call it when real life looks like satire? Maybe Silicon Valley will pick up on this.
Better to be a programmer in a woodworking shop than woodworker in a WeWork.
https://medium.com/@samuelclay/everything-you-need-to-build-...
Anything that lets me do more with software beyond building web apps is always fun.
However, it's not the cheapest hobby. I've spent thousands setting up a proper shop. But it has been fun. And if I wanted to I could easily make the money back building custom pieces of furniture for other people.
The only people I see at coffee shops not using Macs are day traders and people playing video games.
* Shared gardening start up. * Shared space for wood-working start up (ok, these already exist).
If developed properly, both are great acquisition targets for WeWork.
... Don’t let Jony catch wind of this, he'll use it as fodder to abolish MacBook Pros and their ungainly fan noises
The office looked like the lobby of a hipster hotel.
Over the next few weeks, we showed up each day and tapped away on MacBook Airs to the sounds of Portuguese house music and old-school hip hop piped in through speakers. (“Rap is urban, and so is WeWork,” the company explains online. “But more profoundly, the common themes of rap are in tune with the company’s mission.”) While we created, cleaning crews in WeWork T-shirts quietly restocked the citrus water and wiped up our spilled drinks.
If this is the future of tech work, then I guess I'd better find another career--perhaps gardening or wood-working?