German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal

Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by hamandcheese on Monday February 12, 2018 @03:58PM (#16362057)

If you volunteer your data to Facebook I have a hard time considering you to have been “exploited.”

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by tschwimmer on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:11PM (#16362200)

I don't have a strong position on the broader issue, but I feel like this argument ignores some context. It's one thing to sign up for your local car wash's loyal program and have them do some lightweight customer research on the data. It's quite another for to input your demographic info and interests into a social networking site and have it be analyzed by some of the most sophisticated data analytics in history. The potential downside/cost to the user is orders of magnitude larger. I think it's a stretch to say the user is giving informed consent to (for example) have their manual photo tagging be used to train a model so that a computer can identify their friend's faces automatically. The average user has no idea such a thing is even possible.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by freeone3000 on Monday February 12, 2018 @05:03PM (#16362749)

So your problem with data mining is that they're too good at it? What happens when AI gets commoditized, and your car wash gets those analytics as part of their Azure subscription? Are they suddenly no longer allowed to use the data you gave them previously? This isn't consistent, and the line is nowhere near clear.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by franciscop on Monday February 12, 2018 @05:40PM (#16363043)

Of course they are only allowed to use the data for the purpose you gave it to them. How does that not make sense?

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by s73v3r_ on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:01PM (#16362103)

I have a hard time considering it "voluteering" considering other people can put data about me up on Facebook and I have no recourse.

Further, I fail to see why "voluntering" it is relevant at all.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by Grollicus on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:39PM (#16362512)

Actually that's a reason why we need laws like GDPR: I don't have an Facebook account but random websites I visit still have elements embedded from Facebook. I've never agreed for Facebook to store my data but they can only give their word they won't collect my data (which, AFAIK, they don't give).

I've got no recourse against this - or maybe I have because Facebook is big enough that it's worth it to create targeted block lists. But against the next 20 smaller companies who do the same?

This is why there needs to be something else than just blindly trusting everyone out there. Because someone will not play fair if theres a competitive edge to gain.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by jimnotgym on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:05PM (#16362151)

They allow users on from the age of 13. It is rather unclear to some children that they are consenting to mass surveillance, rather than just trying to fit in with their friends

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by denzil_correa on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:24PM (#16362354)

You can't claim "Caveat Emptor" when you have no means to know what is happening with your information.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by lima on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:00PM (#16362087)

If only! Facebook collects plenty of data about non-members.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by ajobaccount2017 on Tuesday February 13, 2018 @01:31AM (#16365182)

My usage isn't voluntary. I am pressured. There are friends I can't reach other ways.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by Trundle on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:02PM (#16362112)

Mfw Giving them the data yourself isn't consent.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by pluma on Tuesday February 13, 2018 @06:01AM (#16366215)

Mfw you act surprised because your airline is selling pictures of your dirty laundry because you clearly consented by giving them your luggage.

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[dead]

Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by sveme on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:00PM (#16362079)

They are collecting information about me even without my consent, without having registered.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by TomMarius on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:06PM (#16362158)

That's not true. That's the purpose of the cookie law. If you continue to use a website that gives you the notice, you've given consent. You can still use blockers also.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by mziel on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:21PM (#16362308)

It's not "consent" as understood by GPDR and ePrivacy. You had no recourse not to give it, therefore it was not willing and informed.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by TomMarius on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:23PM (#16362335)

Not true, you can leave the website. The website of course has to not track you until you don't leave.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by mziel on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:28PM (#16362389)

Again, this is not deemed sufficient by GDPR. According to the law you can't condition the service you're providing on collecting unrelated (to that service) data.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by TomMarius on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:36PM (#16362481)

The GDPR doesn't apply to US companies. While the FB has EU offices right now, they're there for convenience only. They can close them next month and stop caring about the EU law.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by mziel on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:40PM (#16362519)

| they're there for convenience only. They can close them next month

Citation needed? Facebook gets revenue from their ad network, which is used by European business customers and targets European users. Therefore they need to comply with European law.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by s73v3r_ on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:15PM (#16362239)

And if someone tags me in a photo?

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by TomMarius on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:20PM (#16362296)

Then they uploaded a picture they shouldn't have uploaded and the person who uploaded it should be sued (by you and possibly by Facebook because they broke the TOS that says you can only upload stuff that doesn't break the laws - and a photo of you that you didn't agree to be uploaded is against the laws)

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by rhizome on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:24PM (#16362355)

a photo of you that you didn't agree to be uploaded is against the laws

I've never heard of this before, is it a part of GDPR?

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by TomMarius on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:38PM (#16362497)

No, it's part of the basic privacy protection laws that every EU coutry has had for decades. It's the same law that says you can't share videos taken with a dashcam if you're recording in the public.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by s73v3r_ on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:00PM (#16362082)

Or, and this is crazy, I know, but Facebook could follow the rules.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by TomMarius on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:03PM (#16362124)

AFAIK it follows all US laws to the letter.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by code_duck on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:05PM (#16362144)

That’s fantastic, for the US. The next step would be to follow all EU laws to the letter, too.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by TomMarius on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:11PM (#16362191)

It's an US company if I remember correctly. Does a hamburger place in the US need to follow EU laws because tourists come to it often? No.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by smoe on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:51PM (#16362628)

Last time I agreed to Facebooks terms of services it explicitly said that the agreement is between me and Facebook Ireland Limited in Dublin. I only ever consented to the data being transferred and processed in the US.

The Facebook Europeans use is very much an EU company.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by s73v3r_ on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:19PM (#16362282)

I believe McDonalds locations inside Europe do follow EU laws, so yes.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by TomMarius on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:21PM (#16362303)

You seem to not understand the difference in location. Of course companies in the EU follow EU laws.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by s73v3r_ on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:27PM (#16362380)

And FB has presence in the EU.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by TomMarius on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:39PM (#16362508)

Very limited and if the EU will keep fining them, they will leave - and that will mean the exact opposite of what EU wanta because not having an EU entity doesn't mean they don't continue to have EU users.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by clarkenheim on Monday February 12, 2018 @03:58PM (#16362053)

You can stop Facebook from using you as well in the EU.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by meddlepal on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:00PM (#16362083)

So you're effectively stealing then? Your data is your payment to Facebook.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by code_duck on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:03PM (#16362120)

That would be great if it were true, but even if you don’t use Facebook, that does not exclude you from their marketing activities. https://boingboing.net/2017/11/08/involuntary-profiling.html

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by TomMarius on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:08PM (#16362178)

Not true, there's the cookie law - if you continue to use a website that has given you an option to leave, it's consent.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by mziel on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:21PM (#16362315)

It's not "consent" as understood by GPDR and ePrivacy. You had no recourse not to give it, therefore it was not willing and informed.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by tobltobs on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:03PM (#16362126)

FB can stop to have a corporate presence in the EU.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by Tomte on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:34PM (#16362454)

I hope there's a mechanism to arrest Facebook officers on business trips or vacation to EU countries and compel them to cough up the money.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by wtfstatists on Monday February 12, 2018 @05:41PM (#16363053)

I see so now are literally extorting.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by TomMarius on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:05PM (#16362143)

I hope they do. That will mean a lot of lost tax money for the EU (I'm EU citizen btw).

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by tobltobs on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:13PM (#16362216)

It will only hit Ireland. Thanks to some trickery they only pay 0.03% taxes on their revenue in other EU countries. Wont be a big loss.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by TomMarius on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:16PM (#16362245)

Not true anymore (changed last year after the new VAT laws)

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by tobltobs on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:26PM (#16362362)

The Irish double doesn't have anything to do with VAT. And the Irish double was replaced with the "Single Malt". It would be a loss for Ireland and Malta, still not a big loss.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by TomMarius on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:40PM (#16362522)

Most of the tax income EU has from FB is VAT and since they now have to distribute the money to the place where the customer is, it means that all EU countries will be affected.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by llukas on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:18PM (#16362276)

A lot would be before tax optimization not after ;)

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by TomMarius on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:22PM (#16362322)

Not true anymore since the VAT laws changed last year

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by toomuchtodo on Monday February 12, 2018 @03:59PM (#16362068)

Will Facebook remove all of my personal data and attest to no longer collecting any future data from my online of offline activities?

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by TomMarius on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:04PM (#16362138)

Dunno man, did you give them your personal data? If yes, then according to the TOS it's theirs. If not, there's no problem.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by toomuchtodo on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:14PM (#16362232)

Where is the ToS you agree to for the involuntary profiles they create of you if you've never used their service?

https://boingboing.net/2017/11/08/involuntary-profiling.html

"Facebook is well understood as being a major customer of third-party data-brokers, who compile huge dossiers on people based on their spending, internet and phone usage, employment history and so on. In addition, Facebook encourages users to upload their entire address books to the system to "find your friends," and users generally don't appreciate that they may be leaking sensitive information, including nicknames, private numbers, and connections to the system.

Facebook mines this data to create "shadow profiles" of its billions of users. These are profiles that are filled with data about you that you have never consciously provided to the system -- data mined from third parties, including your friends, but also those spooky data-brokers. Facebook's shadow profile system was first confirmed in 2013 when it accidentally leaked users' shadow profiles to them along with their own data, something the company says it will never do again out of (ironic) respect for the privacy of the people who provided the data that goes into your shadow profile.

Facebook's shadow profiles are involuntary and there's no opt-out. Facebook has shadow profiles on people who don't use the service. For example, even though I'm not a Facebook user, multiple people have uploaded their address books containing my email and phone number to the system, allowing Facebook to create a profile of my contacts by looking at who lists me as a contact."

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by TomMarius on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:18PM (#16362273)

There's the cookie notice that every website with FB tracking code has to display to you and not track you until you give consent (e.g. by continuing to use the site). If your friends do something you don't like like uploading photos of you, FB has nothing to do with it - it's your friends who gave them the info and lied that the data they upload is uploadef rightfully.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by madez on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:23PM (#16362333)

According to the law, you have to give certain rights to the user, including the right to demand cease of use and deletion of the data. So, you do not own the data and are not free to use it however you wish.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by TomMarius on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:26PM (#16362366)

That's an EU law, FB is US company.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by madez on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:35PM (#16362464)

It is of no matter where FB is incorporated. Every country can still bring it to court and judge it. The question is then of enforceability. I'm confident the EU can enforce fines on FB, but that is a different discussion.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by TomMarius on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:42PM (#16362533)

Was there ever a single case of something like the EU successfully fining an US company for breaking laws that don't apply to the company?

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by s73v3r_ on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:16PM (#16362256)

And why is that a good or acceptable thing? Why should one's personal data, and how that's used, be paramount?

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by TomMarius on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:25PM (#16362359)

Because nobody forces you to use websites that track you or Facebook itself. It's your voluntary choice and in many cases also your payment for the seemingly free service.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by s73v3r_ on Monday February 12, 2018 @04:27PM (#16362375)

This is a very poor argument, as basically it's saying that people should go back to living in caves.

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Re:German court rules Facebook use of personal data illegal by TomMarius on Tuesday February 13, 2018 @11:10AM (#16368187)

Not at all. People either don't care about this enough or they will create an alternative - them caring means a new business opportunity has been created.

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