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Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by Fnoord on Sunday January 21, 2018 @04:10AM (#16197394)
Just skip this terrible usability nightmare and read the original list instead at [1]. FWIW, I used Ctrl+F to search around (for, in my case, my country name).

And the 100 dollar question: is this better or worse than an average bank from your_country? I have no clue about my own bank. Reading through this list, it seems I should get a clue about my own bank.

[1] https://www.paypal.com/ie/webapps/mpp/ua/third-parties-list

Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by erikb on Sunday January 21, 2018 @04:26AM (#16197423)
And then what? You find they are doing almost the same, move to the biggest forrest you can find and start living on berries and rabbits? Or you decide to cut 1/3 of your savings, buy paypal and show them how to do it the right way?

It's really hard to see any reasonable options you have as source of data.

Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by Fnoord on Sunday January 21, 2018 @05:03AM (#16197480)
Basically every time I can pay with PayPal I can also pay with iDEAL (local equiv. of IBAN / bank transfer). PayPal just works quicker. It wouldn't surprise me if my current bank (Rabobank) did the same but then I can compare it with other banks available in my country and consider to (finally) make the switch because I've been considering to switch banks for quite some while (one of my options is Triodos [1] who resort to ethical banking / investments). I also want to start a savings account for my child for later. YMMV.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triodos_Bank

Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by nerdponx on Sunday January 21, 2018 @10:25AM (#16198365)
This right here is the reason we need cryptocurrency. Not for speculation, not as a "settlement layer", just for unfettered global economic activity accessible to normal people.
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by kennywinker on Sunday January 21, 2018 @02:58PM (#16199654)
What could possibly go wrong!
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by em3rgent0rdr on Sunday January 21, 2018 @04:37AM (#16197441)
Some cryptocurrencies are designed to preserve privacy, to protect people from exactly this problem.
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by zerokernel on Sunday January 21, 2018 @04:53AM (#16197468)
I don't think cryptocurrencies are protecting anyone from any problem.
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by jstanley on Sunday January 21, 2018 @08:27AM (#16197953)
OK, I'll bite. How is Monero not protecting people's privacy?
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by paulsutter on Sunday January 21, 2018 @09:55AM (#16198237)
Because most Monero transactions are traceable, according to research by the National University of Singapore:

https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/338.pdf

If anyone can debunk this I’d love to hear more, but generally I think it’s dangerous to rely on claims of secrecy

Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by jstanley on Sunday January 21, 2018 @10:04AM (#16198284)
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by paulsutter on Sunday January 21, 2018 @10:45AM (#16198450)
Thanks for the link. While it’s good to see the paper overstates the problem, it’s also clear that users should not assume that their Monero transactions are untraceable.
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by tscs37 on Sunday January 21, 2018 @06:36PM (#16200765)
I think the summary of both papers (the initial paper and monero's unofficial response) could be that monero's transactions are reasonably untraceable.

Reasonably private should be good enough for most people.

Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by paulsutter on Monday January 22, 2018 @12:35AM (#16202153)
If the goal is more-private-than-bitcoin, yes, it's less traceable than bitcoin. If the goal is bulletproof-from-authorities, not so much.
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by Fnoord on Sunday January 21, 2018 @05:05AM (#16197483)
Yes, a known example is Monero. The question is, first and foremost, if you should trust cryptocurrencies.
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by rickdg on Sunday January 21, 2018 @06:11AM (#16197632)
You don't, that's the point. It's an investment of time and money to learn the tech so you don't need to trust it.
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by dmos62 on Sunday January 21, 2018 @09:49AM (#16198221)
Trustlessness, in other words the property of not requiring trust in the ledger's correctness, is the cornerstone of cryptocurrencies.
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by tormeh on Sunday January 21, 2018 @05:29AM (#16197524)
Yeah, but the biggest ones are not inflationary, so they end up as exclusively hype-driven speculative investment vehicles. That's not good for a method of payment.
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by Casseres on Sunday January 21, 2018 @08:12AM (#16197920)
Monero is inflationary, but it still might not keep up with coin loss.

Even a coin with higher inflation will still be susceptible as a speculative-investment. It would be nice if there was a way to avoid that, and to keep value relatively-stable, but I can't think of anyway that does require trusting 3rd parties.

Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by Casseres on Monday January 22, 2018 @07:07PM (#16209487)
Typo, meant: "that does not require"
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by cm2187 on Sunday January 21, 2018 @06:51AM (#16197745)
Preserving privacy by having a public ledger where everyone can see your transactions?
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by Feniks on Sunday January 21, 2018 @12:33PM (#16198958)
Worse obviously. PayPal is a US company, US consumer rights and privacy policies are always worse. That's a given.
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by Markoff on Sunday January 21, 2018 @09:06PM (#16201401)
PayPal it's just another Luxembourg bank for EU citizens
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by traviswingo on Sunday January 21, 2018 @11:26AM (#16198605)
I just recently opened a new checking account with Chase and, upon reading the terms, found they do exactly this. All banks do...its why (at least for me) we get so many offers on a daily basis. I really wish it werent the case.
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by shawn on Sunday January 21, 2018 @06:14AM (#16197638)
The tree visualization was kind of cool, so I turned it into a library called d4tree.

https://github.com/shawwn/d4tree

Throw it any JSON data whose structure is isomorphic to http://rebecca-ricks.com/paypal-data/data/paypal.json

Here's an example of how to use d4tree on your site:

https://github.com/shawwn/d4tree-paypal

  git clone https://github.com/shawwn/d4tree-paypal
  cd d4tree-paypal
  yarn && yarn dev
Make any changes you want to paypal.json, then refresh http://localhost:1234 to see them. Whenever you're happy, run `yarn deploy` to push it live.

Standard paypal visualization:

https://dist-zlomdidehn.now.sh/

After truncating paypal.json to three nodes, we get a skinny tree:

https://dist-kzpulmmevd.now.sh/

Let's attach package.json to the top of paypal.json:

  import d4tree from 'd4tree';
  d4tree([{
      name: "package.json",
      parent: "null",
      children: require('./paypal.json'),
      Data: JSON.stringify(require('./package.json'), true, 2),
  }]);

https://dist-vcqquyfbwl.now.sh

https://imgur.com/a/arwF5

Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by jamessb on Sunday January 21, 2018 @06:54AM (#16197753)
Do you realise that this is essentialy Mike Bostock's reference implementation of a Collapsible Tree [1]?

Why re-distribute it as a separate repository?

Rebeca Ricks added tooltips, but you haven't generalised these: the code in your repo still generates this text using .Data and .Purpose attributes of the data objects representing the leaves [2], which won't exist for general tree objects.

[1]: https://bl.ocks.org/mbostock/4339083

[2]: https://github.com/shawwn/d4tree/blob/master/js/script.js#L7...

Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by shawn on Sunday January 21, 2018 @08:21AM (#16197940)
http://9front.org/img/freesoftware.gif

Thanks! :) I did this mostly for the fun of it, but it's nice to know the source. The styling on Mike's tree is much nicer.

It's quite handy to have zooming and tooltips. The zooming is a little rough, but overall this seems like a nice way to explore huge amounts of hierarchical data.

My overall aim is to make an interactive bundle explorer:

https://i.imgur.com/Ww0ARCS.png

Graphviz is nice, but it's not interactive. What you really want is to attach a ton of information to each node, hidden by default. Tooltips are a small but promising step towards that.

It doesn't seem like this library can handle circular dependencies though. Anyone know of something along these lines that can handle arbitrary cycles?

DOT graphs try to display all the nodes at once, but it seems like the Collapsible Tree strategy could be applied to circular graphs: just let the user click on the edges they want to explore, and elide the rest. Then indicate which edges are "interesting" (lots of children, or children with significant effects), so that users aren't randomly stepping through a huge mostly-hidden graph.

I'd love to find something performant enough to display your entire filesystem as an explorable tree, but that'd be quite a challenge.

Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by gruez on Saturday January 20, 2018 @11:09PM (#16196808)
this is actually worse than the source. for whatever reason, the chart appears super zoomed out for me, so the text is tiny. but even if there wasn't a font issue, the source is already clear as it is that a flowchart style diagram isn't going to help.
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by scoggs on Sunday January 21, 2018 @02:44AM (#16197231)
And it's an SVG (embedded) to boot so there's no real way for most people to grab the source file and upsize it (where possible).

EDIT: Also, I realize there are some relatively simple and quick solutions to this, but it's definitely way more steps / requires more specific software and/or knowledge to execute as simply as right clicking an image on a website, clicking inspect element, locating the line of code with the image source, downloading and going from there / modifying code to meet needs.

Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by ram_rar on Sunday January 21, 2018 @01:50PM (#16199346)
Understanding privacy policies and terms of service has become a nightmare. I wish there was a standard privacy format, which companies could use to define and update their privacy policies. That way, it ll be easier for people to understand

1. What personal data is being used ?

2. What kind of data do websites store in your browser cookie ?

3. Which are the 3rd party tools / services used to share data ?

4. Who are the 3rd parties, the data is being shared with.

Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by RobLach on Sunday January 21, 2018 @12:39AM (#16197014)
This interface is incredibly hard for me to use. I'm having to do a lot of scrollbar fighting and I can't figure out how to see the nodes beyond the edge of the frame.
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by alain_gilbert on Sunday January 21, 2018 @02:57AM (#16197260)
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by cesnja on Sunday January 21, 2018 @03:34AM (#16197334)
On the other hand, Firefox seems to have such feature built-in.
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by __ka on Sunday January 21, 2018 @06:44AM (#16197717)
Maybe of interest: https://www.whotracks.me/ - A growing list of profiles on trackers and tracking landscape on popular domains.
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by lucb1e on Sunday January 21, 2018 @10:15AM (#16198333)
Huh, what is the CCC doing in there? The Chaos Computer Club, largest hacker club of Europe, organizer of the Chaos Community Congress that attracts some 15 000 hackers every year?

They're filed under customer support outsourcing with the "explanation":

> Global Ops Customer service outsourcing for the German market.

> Full Name, Date of Birth, Email address, Physical address, Telephone number, Financials-bank, debit, and credit, Transaction history, Business details including URLs, SSN/TIN/EIN, IP Address. Counterparty details.

Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by germanier on Sunday January 21, 2018 @01:30PM (#16199244)
That's probably the callcenter company CCC, which is unrelated to them. https://www.yourccc.com/
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by lucb1e on Monday January 22, 2018 @02:32AM (#16202543)
Ah right, that makes sense. Thanks!
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by jdiaz5513 on Sunday January 21, 2018 @01:26PM (#16199224)
I would be amused to find out it's a PoC to demonstrate what it takes to sucker a company into handing over the data.
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by yeukhon on Sunday January 21, 2018 @02:50AM (#16197245)
A list-based would probably just fine... as the user interface...
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by Hnrobert42 on Sunday January 21, 2018 @02:38AM (#16197218)
Cool idea but on Firefox Focus on Android, it is almost unusable.
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by tenryuu on Sunday January 21, 2018 @03:20AM (#16197308)
firefox on desktop is also unusable really
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by foepys on Sunday January 21, 2018 @03:40AM (#16197345)
Working fine on Linux with Firefox Nightly here.
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by tempodox on Sunday January 21, 2018 @06:59AM (#16197761)
If I zoom in enough to have readable text, the branches below the middle are unreachable via scrolling (Safari). Something is very broken with this presentation.
Re:How PayPal Shares Your Data by pymai on Sunday January 21, 2018 @03:46AM (#16197354)
something like workflowy or coggle would work much better for this type of thing