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Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by TheSpiceIsLife on Sunday January 14, 2018 @04:34AM (#16143484)
If the downstream consequences of this:

> Teenagers are also having less sex, especially of the procreative kind. In 1991, 54% of American teenagers in grades nine to 12 (ages 14-18) reported that they were sexually experienced, and 19% claimed to have had sex with at least four partners. In 2015 those proportions were 41% and 12%. America’s teenage birth rate crashed by two-thirds during the same period.

Is this:

> As with alcohol, the abstention from sex seems to be carrying through into early adulthood. Jean Twenge, a psychologist at San Diego State University in California, has shown that the proportion of Americans aged 20-24 who report having no sexual partner since the age of 18 rose from 6.3% for the cohort born in the late 1960s to 15.2% for those born in the early 1990s. Japan is a more extreme case. In 2015, 47% of unmarried 20- to 24-year-old Japanese men said they had never had sex with a woman, up from 34% in 2002.

I'm not convinced that is a good thing.

Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by quadcore on Sunday January 14, 2018 @04:52AM (#16143534)
I wonder the impact of social media here again. When I was in high school in 2000, there s been a couple of events that could not be done nowdays: a drunk and naked girl dancing on a table, some other having sex in a bar, oral sex in the middle of a party, etc. You do any of that today, you end up on internet.
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by iotscale on Sunday January 14, 2018 @04:58AM (#16143553)
Given enough eyeballs, everyone becomes shallow.
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by Blazespinnaker on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:46AM (#16143693)
Yeah, think of the cam scene in American pie. The gossip that fires through the internet. iPhones are like cctvs per person.
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by silvestrov on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:00AM (#16143556)
> they were sexually experienced

I would really like to know the precise words they were asked. There might be some Bill Clinton effect going on where a blowjob was considered "active" in 1991 whereas camsex, porn and blowjobs isn't in 2015.

They might even be more active todays, just in a different way.

Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by mcantelon on Sunday January 14, 2018 @04:52AM (#16143533)
The birthrate in most of the West is sub-replacement. Inter-generation testosterone decreases, and cultural factors, likely play a part. Youth suicides have gone up considerably in the last decade.
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by comstock on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:59AM (#16143723)
Having two kids, the answer feels really obvious to me, but I’d love to see data supporting any viewpoint.

Raising multiple children in western society is really hard. In many (most?) cases you need to move away from family (parents) so there’s limited support from the community or family. There’s limited childcare available, and on top of that kids are expensive. Often both partners are working (or want to get back to work as soon as possible). So if you can satisfy your procreative desires with one child, you just do that.

Compare this to (totally unjust) prior social norms where people didn’t move as far as they do now. Meaning parents could help out. Where it was common to have one non-working partner (so more available time to look after kids).

We’ve created a modern society where raising one child is super-stressful. Why would any sane person have two? I predict that as more societies transform toward the western model we’ll see a massive population decline.

Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by mcantelon on Sunday January 14, 2018 @06:16AM (#16143774)
True. Societies may, however, be hesitant to follow our footsteps towards atomization and low birthrate.
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by comstock on Sunday January 14, 2018 @07:09AM (#16143933)
I think globally, most societies are follow this trend. My hope would be that we find a way through it. In part, the solution might be more even distribution of the benefits of automation. Less concentration of wealth, lowered cost of living or support which allows both parents to take time off work for the first few grads of their children’s lives.
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by gaius on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:31AM (#16143640)
Inter-generation testosterone decreases

It’s not just hyperbole: the youth of today really are soft https://uk.news.yahoo.com/generation-wimps-millennial-men-ar...

Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by dominotw on Sunday January 14, 2018 @02:13PM (#16145716)
I wonder if there is co relation to immigrantion from traditional cultures.
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Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by TheSpiceIsLife on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:32AM (#16143643)
From a biological perspective, what purpose does sexual maturity serve other than perpetuation of the species?

Therefore, it could be argued that the idea of teenage pregnancy being a problem is a cultural quirk. It could also be argued that adulthood starting at age eighteen is a cultural quirk.

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Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by TheSpiceIsLife on Sunday January 14, 2018 @06:00AM (#16143724)
I have no idea what you're on about. I'm not claiming any of that.
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by krastanov on Sunday January 14, 2018 @06:20AM (#16143789)
The point is that many do, and as such this is inherently part of the "cultural quirk" you mentioned. And this is not even mentioning that important development continues after 18.
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by thaumasiotes on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:23AM (#16143617)
From an evolutionary perspective, that is obviously true. The only reason you wouldn't want to get pregnant is that getting pregnant now reduces the number of children you can have over your entire lifespan. This is clearly not the case in, say, the US.
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by qubex on Sunday January 14, 2018 @04:51AM (#16143530)
Why? Repudiation of this abhorrent ”hookup culture” that seems to be sweeping through our western societies is to be applauded. I’m not arguing for abstention, but reserving sex for monogamous, committed relationships is, as far as I am concerned, an unmitigated good.
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by TheSpiceIsLife on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:18AM (#16143601)
The idea that there is a hookup culture sweeping through our western societies is directly contradicted by the numbers presented in the very article we are discussing here.

And anyway, I reject this prudish Judeo-Christian inspired sexual ethics. Sex is good and good for you. There should be more of.

Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by qubex on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:31AM (#16143638)
You’re most welcome to reject this ”Judeo-Christian prudishness” (or whatever you want to call it) but just keep in mind I’m an atheist, and all for rejecting dogma — including the new doctrines of consumerism that is snaking it’s way into our private sphere, making us all willing to use each other (apparently) for our short-term jollies.
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by TheSpiceIsLife on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:42AM (#16143674)
There is nothing new about us humans having short-term jollies, or even medium- / long-term jollies that are non-monogamous.

Short- / medium- / long-term non-monogamous jollies goes as far back as time immemorial. As far back as the beginnings of life itself. I'm willing to bet monogamy is the new normal as far as historical longevity is concerned. I'm no anthropologist, so I'm willing to be corrected on that matter.

Also, I'd argue consumerism isn't exactly new either. People have been blowing their pay packets at their local pub since the invention of the local pub.

Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by vedloseper on Sunday January 14, 2018 @06:17AM (#16143778)
People also have been rejecting that since time immemorial, so the strength of your argument just barely suffices to eat itself.
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by TheSpiceIsLife on Sunday January 14, 2018 @06:53AM (#16143896)
That some people have been rejecting it since time immemorial doesn't mean those behaviours don't exist.

What I'm disagreeing with is this: new doctrines of consumerism that is <snip> making us all willing to use each other (apparently) for our short-term jollies.

It isn't the new doctrines of consumerism that are making us do this, it's human nature; we like to fuck.

So your argument ... isn't one.

Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by vedloseper on Sunday January 14, 2018 @07:21AM (#16143959)
There's still worlds between liking to fuck and using each other like toys. Though consumerist attitudes may not be new, see e.g. that Latin dude talking about how the mind is a fire to be kindled, not a vessel to be filled.
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by polar on Sunday January 14, 2018 @06:34AM (#16143831)
> Judeo-Christian inspired sexual ethics

There are religions outside the Judeo-Islamic world with similar views. Besides, such mores also have a lot to do with culture and class.

Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by eecc on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:05AM (#16143567)
Why? What’s so intrinsically special in monogamy to deserve the label “unmitigated good”?
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by throwawaycanada on Sunday January 14, 2018 @06:39AM (#16143845)
Long term it's the most stable.
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by eecc on Sunday January 14, 2018 @04:50PM (#16146690)
Hmm, not sure there's enough data to discern confounding factors and assert monogamy guarantees stable and durable relations. Narrative and history actually suggest otherwise, that the constraint or expectation of monogamy eventually undoes the relationship...
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by iotscale on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:06AM (#16143569)
IMHO it's bad, as long as a lifestyle is pushed heavily from people who aren't immediate family. Doesn't matter if it's "hookup culture" or waiting for the prince charming to marry.
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by TheSpiceIsLife on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:44AM (#16143685)
> as long as a lifestyle is pushed heavily from people who aren't immediate family

Is a lifestyle pushed by people who are immediately family inherently a good thing?

Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by iotscale on Sunday January 14, 2018 @06:32AM (#16143822)
I just thought, to a certain age, it may be required. I'm not a parent so I probably don't know what I'm talking about.
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by hateduser2 on Sunday January 14, 2018 @04:57AM (#16143550)
I like that for myself but how can you say that is good?
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by BjoernKW on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:13AM (#16143581)
There’s a vast difference between a hookup culture and having consensual, if casual, sex with someone.

A relationship without doubt is a good thing but it isn’t the only thing. Modern society for shallow moral reasons conflates committed relationships with sex.

This causes a lot of problems and probably is one of the main reasons why relationships break up or people feel miserable in relationships.

Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by icebraining on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:21AM (#16143608)
There’s a vast difference between a hookup culture and having consensual, if casual, sex with someone.

Is hookup necessarily (or even mostly) non-consensual? I'm probably missing some cultural context, what's the distinction you're making?

Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by BjoernKW on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:48AM (#16143699)
It's about the way it's painted in the media. Hookups are often depicted as negative, morally questionable and at times non-consensual as well (mostly involving drugs). There's been a moral panic about this in recent years.

Having consensual, casual sex with someone on the other hand shouldn't ever be considered questionable, given that you're being honest with everyone involved, which might include someone you're in a committed relationship with at the time.

So, doing something consensually never is a bad thing. Lying is, to others as well as to yourself.

Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by TheSpiceIsLife on Sunday January 14, 2018 @06:03AM (#16143742)
> Hookups are often depicted as negative, morally questionable and at times non-consensual as well (mostly involving drugs).

Why on Earth would you conflate hookups and rape? Please stop.

Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by BjoernKW on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:50AM (#16143706)
To those downvoting this comment: Renowned relationship therapists like Esther Perel seem to agree with me on this matter.
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by qubex on Sunday January 14, 2018 @06:24AM (#16143798)
Ah, the vaunted ”appeal to authority”... a logical fallacy that hadn’t yet shown up on this sub-thread.
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Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by qubex on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:43AM (#16143684)
Don’t try to make this into a proxy for homophobia, please. This (or at the very least my comment) has nothing to do with making value judgements on whom you are attracted to or what orientation you subscribe to. There is no attempt at creating moral equivalency and I am definitely not going to let it stand unchallenged that my stance is about denigrating people of differing orientations.
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Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by TheSpiceIsLife on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:49AM (#16143703)
How can nature be abhorrent? That's like saying God made a mistake.

It would probably be okay for you to say "I find homosexuality abhorrent", and then we can all laugh you out of the room for your anachronistic opinion. But when you say "homosexuality is abhorrent" without owning the statement, you're attempting to make a universal statement of truth.

To which case we will laugh you out of the room for your anachronistic opinion anyway.

Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by qubex on Sunday January 14, 2018 @06:20AM (#16143787)
You write about God not making mistakes... but also of repudiating ”Judeo-Christian“ doctrine... which is it?
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by shawabawa3 on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:47AM (#16143695)
haha wtf

Maybe people just want to enjoy their life without some judgy puritans telling them what to do

Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by qubex on Sunday January 14, 2018 @06:18AM (#16143781)
Apparently not, hence the data reported in the article.
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Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by jack9 on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:37AM (#16143660)
> I disagree with that completely, like honestly people that prefer monogamy generally do so because they are either afraid to be alone, because it was what they were brought up on, just don't want to deal with being rejected a bunch before hooking up that night, or they are romantics.

That's a bitter remark. I think there's a lot to be said for having a life partner by the age of 30 (there are movie tropes about this), generally from a psychological and sociological point of view. If you don't look early, you decrease your chances of having it by the time it gets really hard to find mates at 35+ Pursuing a monogamous relationship necessarily requires you to be a functioning adult, capable of engaging in a negotiated relationship. How well you tolerate and negotiate, is the primary method by which both members determine the value of the relationship. This is unappealing to people who are psychologically undeveloped, damaged (insert millennial infantilism joke here) or simply have a personality that is incompatible with such a relationship...which can often be traced to a problematic upbringing. I'm just repeating part of what you've said with a different interpretation, but the general statement was just grating.

Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by qubex on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:41AM (#16143673)
How functional can somebody be if they think nothing of slandering their only-ever girlfriend a “slut”? I just hope he’s not in the mature-adult age-bracket yet.
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by qubex on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:39AM (#16143668)
I feel so sorry for you. Not because we have different opinions, but because you’re somebody that thinks nothing of calling your only girlfriend a “slut”.
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by watwut on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:27AM (#16143623)
Protip: if you want to argue that non-monogamous sex is cooler and better, your argument will be stronger if you don't call your girl slut. I mean, she is doing what you argue is good, so shaming her weakens that.
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by ParamModule on Sunday January 14, 2018 @06:00AM (#16143728)
Well she was really promiscuous, I'm not shaming her but I get it certain words offend certain people so I should filter what I write.
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by qubex on Sunday January 14, 2018 @06:31AM (#16143815)
I’m really confused now... you’re advocating for promiscuity, but also calling somebody out (with unfathomably crude language, but you’ve tried to explain that) for doing what you’re advocating? Is it because she’s female and you’re not that you feel entitled to contrast your behaviours? Did you not know she was promiscuous before getting with her? Did you not care? Did you feel ’unspecial’ when she went her separate way or indulged her alternative passions whilst with you?
Re:Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lone... by tzahola on Sunday January 14, 2018 @05:23AM (#16143618)
Don’t use the word “like” so frequently.