News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Google Pay by dfabulich on Monday January 08, 2018 @11:52AM (#16097985)
Google's payment solutions are shockingly diverse. Google Checkout, Google Wallet, Android Pay, and now Google Pay. Checkout failed so they replaced it with Google Wallet; Wallet failed and they replaced it with Android Pay.

The Google Pay API developer site https://developers.google.com/payments/ has the audacity to call it "The newest way to pay with Google." I wouldn't be surprised to see yet another brand (and yet another API) within the next three years.

Re:Google Pay by provost on Monday January 08, 2018 @02:08PM (#16099137)
Also, they have had Hangouts, Messenger, Talk, Voice, Allo, and Duo... most with the same functionality. What is up with Google's product management? Is there a strategy?
Re:Google Pay by joekrill on Monday January 08, 2018 @02:17PM (#16099248)
Then they seem to randomly consolidate (I believe Hangouts was supposed to bring all that together, including SMS), only to do a complete 180 a few months later and split everything up again. I mean it's kind of absurd at this point.
Re:Google Pay by ignoramous on Monday January 08, 2018 @02:49PM (#16099669)
I think the hangouts/duo/allo is a one-off, and that was because of Vic Gundotra loosing out?
Re:Google Pay by rwc on Monday January 08, 2018 @05:24PM (#16101336)
But you forgot Chat!

They've held their Slack competitor announced nearly a year ago in EAP so long you wonder if the damn thing will ever see the light of day...

https://gsuite.google.com/campaigns/index__chateap.html

Re:Google Pay by jonny_eh on Monday January 08, 2018 @04:36PM (#16100841)
You forgot Google Meet: https://meet.google.com/
Re:Google Pay by edaemon on Monday January 08, 2018 @07:30PM (#16102366)
Which is also branded as one of "Meet" [1], "Google Meet" [2], or "Hangouts Meet" [3], depending on where you go.

[1] https://meet.google.com/

[2] https://www.google.com/search?q=google+meet

[3] https://itunes.apple.com/US/app/id1013231476

Re:Google Pay by sorenjan on Monday January 08, 2018 @07:48PM (#16102475)
> Meet doesn't work on your browser

> To join the video meeting

> Install the current version of Google Chrome

Google is the new Microsoft.

Also, don't forget Google Spaces. Although you might as well, it lasted less than a year.

Re:Google Pay by bradbeattie on Monday January 08, 2018 @09:28PM (#16103022)
And Spaces: https://get.google.com/spaces/

Oh, that one's already gone. Why on earth would anyone jump on board a new Google product when they have the lifespan of fruit flies?

Re:Google Pay by weber111 on Monday January 08, 2018 @06:48PM (#16102091)
Thanks for pointing that out! I had no idea it existed.
Re:Google Pay by mbesto on Monday January 08, 2018 @02:34PM (#16099498)
My understanding is that they effectively let these service duke it out to see which one survives and then choose that one.
Re:Google Pay by ocdtrekkie on Monday January 08, 2018 @02:50PM (#16099698)
The problem is, most of these sorts of services work via a network effect. Especially chat: You use the one all your friends are using. Payment is the one that all your accounts and stores you go to support.

Running a bunch of your own competitors is self-defeating when it ensures you don't have the network effect. Google Talk worked mostly because it was in Gmail, and everyone had Gmail. People who never used it had it, because Gmail.

Re:Google Pay by gedy on Monday January 08, 2018 @03:17PM (#16100003)
Maybe that works for their internal politics, but not for the users. I've given up even trying new Google offerings
Re:Google Pay by mbesto on Monday January 08, 2018 @03:54PM (#16100438)
Never said it was a good strategy ;)
Re:Google Pay by yupyup on Monday January 08, 2018 @02:51PM (#16099703)
Darwinian Product Strategy?

Quick, someone should register it and publish a book and make a career giving talks about it...

Re:Google Pay by jaxondu on Monday January 08, 2018 @02:52PM (#16099724)
Feel the same. One example is Angular Typescript and then there is AngularDart, both are used by teams in Google.
Re:Google Pay by nine_k on Monday January 08, 2018 @04:31PM (#16100791)
Hmm, what? I think e.g. Talk/Hangouts and Voice are radically different: one is about text messaging and video calls, another is about a connection to the "legacy" voice telephony network, with a dial-able number, etc. They started (long ago) form very different areas.

They could have a seamless bridge between them, though. They sort of tried: you can dial a phone from Hangouts, but not back, or you can receive your Voice text messages in the email, but not send a reply back (afaict).

Google is notoriously bad at cohesive product management. They have a number of bright ideas, but no visionary in the consumer product space, so apparently no coordination.

Re:Google Pay by niftich on Monday January 08, 2018 @04:40PM (#16100870)
Google Voice was a rebrand of a product acquired in 2009. Google Talk was an XMPP chat service launched in 2005, and integrated into Gmail in 2006. "+Hangouts" was originally a feature inside Google Plus, launched in 2011, just like "+Messenger". 'Google Hangouts' was a 2013 launch to bring Talk, +Messenger, and +Hangouts into one product. This was further blurred by their various apps, which sometimes had differing functionality from the websites.

The latest iteration of Google Voice has chat, for example, while SMS support inside the Hangouts Android App was removed on purpose and users told to use yet another app, first called Messenger, now called Messages.

All their communication products suffer from convergent evolution, yet remain in dizzyingly varying states of integration with each other.

Re:Google Pay by jyrkesh on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @01:13AM (#16104001)
I've had a miserable love-hate relationship with Google Voice for years, what do you mean by "the latest iteration of Google Voice has chat?"
Re:Google Pay by niftich on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @01:17AM (#16104017)
Announced in January 2017, the Android, iOS, and Web versions of Google Voice have a revamped UI and, apparently, text chat [1]; discussed on HN at [2].

[1] https://blog.google/products/google-voice/ringing-2017-updat... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13463940

Re:Google Pay by jetpacktuxedo on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @12:48PM (#16108062)
>you can dial a phone from Hangouts, but not back

I use google voice and hangouts. I can both send and receive voice calls using my google voice number via hangouts. I can also send and receive sms message using my google voice number via hangouts. Both of these have been true for at least 4 years, maybe 5. They started trying to phase sms out of hangouts a few years back, but never removed it for google voice users.

Re:Google Pay by tgb on Monday January 08, 2018 @02:28PM (#16099412)
Ars Technica calls this a "merge" of all those payments solutions. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/01/google-rebrands-all-...
Re:Google Pay by ocdtrekkie on Monday January 08, 2018 @02:48PM (#16099662)
Written by a former Android Police writer, yes. It's unsurprising it comes with an optimistic bent.
Re:Google Pay by eco on Monday January 08, 2018 @03:04PM (#16099879)
I'm not sure I would characterize it as optimistic. The subtitle is "Fifth Times A Charm!" and the bulk of it is talking about how many times Google has (mostly unsuccessfully) tried to make a product in this space.

I find Ron Amadeo's articles are often much more critical of Google than others writing about them. If I were to summarize his attitude in much of his writing it'd be "Come on, you need to do better than this, Google." It's refreshing because normally writers who cover a particular company almost always view them through rose colored glasses and minimize all the mistakes.

Re:Google Pay by ocdtrekkie on Monday January 08, 2018 @04:16PM (#16100671)
I have a generally positive view of Ron's work, but there's been some tragic missteps of late. This is a trashfire of a piece justifying incredible incompetence by Google[1], and suggesting a major vulnerability 'isn't a big deal': https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/11/pixel-wont-get-krack...

[1]Google had months of notice under coordinated disclosure, and it took them a couple months after it went public for the fix to finally make it to Pixel devices (which is to say, most other Android devices still aren't patched). Since ROM authors fixed this in like two days, the fact that Google couldn't do it in five months is inexcusable. I actually suspect this may be part of why the Android Security Lead just shifted to a massively less important position at Google around the end of the year.

Re:Google Pay by r00fus on Monday January 08, 2018 @02:07PM (#16099125)
This. I mean, it takes lot of effort to keep up with Google's "throw it all on the wall and see what sticks" approach as a user.

People chide Apple for not moving fast enough, but in many cases, being stable is more important than refactoring every 2 years.

Re:Google Pay by debt on Monday January 08, 2018 @02:31PM (#16099464)
They're all trying to Venmo-ify payments. You run a balance on their platform and just pay with that.

Tech companies are trying to become outright banks, but with none of the FDIC insurance or other safeguards that goes along with it lol. Innovation...

Re:Google Pay by briandear on Monday January 08, 2018 @05:07PM (#16101154)
> They're all trying to Venmo-ify payments.

Not all -- Apple Pay doesn't do the balance on their platform thing.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207886

Re:Google Pay by revelation on Monday January 08, 2018 @02:27PM (#16099410)
And it's still only credit cards. Like how many iterations can you possibly have on CC processing. Add debit and then it becomes a lot more useful, but no.
Re:Google Pay by criddell on Monday January 08, 2018 @03:24PM (#16100097)
Why would you choose debit over credit? I have a debit and credit card and only use the debit card when I absolutely have to.
Re:Google Pay by cmurf on Monday January 08, 2018 @05:08PM (#16101165)
Most of the rest of the world uses debit, and as a result enjoy very low transaction fees. Credit cards have much higher, and highly variable, transaction fees that cost merchants and thus all consumers, money.
Re:Google Pay by criddell on Monday January 08, 2018 @05:47PM (#16101550)
If merchants gave me a discount for debit, I might use it more.
Re:Google Pay by revelation on Monday January 08, 2018 @05:50PM (#16101593)
American credit card companies have lobbied successfully and now have blatantly anti-competitive most favored nation clauses that make it impossible for merchants to charge you anything other than the credit card price.
Re:Google Pay by criddell on Monday January 08, 2018 @09:26PM (#16103012)
I think most of those rules have been thrown out in recent years. Visa and Mastercard don't do but I'm not sure about other groups.

There are gas stations near me that post a credit and a cash price.

Re:Google Pay by stephenr on Monday January 08, 2018 @03:47PM (#16100362)
When you have actual money and dont want to pay interest?
Re:Google Pay by criddell on Monday January 08, 2018 @04:12PM (#16100639)
If you have money, why aren't you paying your credit card bill on time?
Re:Google Pay by Doctor_Fegg on Monday January 08, 2018 @05:14PM (#16101219)
If I have money, why do I need a credit card?

I’m guessing you’re American: much of Europe doesn’t bother with credit cards, myself included.

Re:Google Pay by criddell on Monday January 08, 2018 @05:19PM (#16101279)
Why? That's easy - credit cards (at least in America) come with a lot of benefits and consumer protections.
Re:Google Pay by aquadrop on Monday January 08, 2018 @05:29PM (#16101397)
I always wondered why (at least in America) credit cards have more consumer protections? It's essentially the same way to use money, if someone steals from your credit card you're protected, but if it's debit card, it's not? Why?
Re:Google Pay by revelation on Monday January 08, 2018 @05:45PM (#16101527)
Credit card fees in America are >2%, debit (and CC) is limited to <0.3% in Europe. So it makes sense for credit card companies in America to take the occasional loss and give out all those gimmicks as long as it keeps people paying mini-VAT on every purchase.

That's before you get into the whole "you gotta build credit" perversion that has Americans go into debt en masse and pay horrid fees on that.

Re:Google Pay by vinay427 on Monday January 08, 2018 @07:33PM (#16102382)
If you are in a relatively healthy financial situation, you can also profit off of the system with many of the rewards card benefits in the last several years. One example of this is: https://reddit.com/r/churning
Re:Google Pay by dragonwriter on Monday January 08, 2018 @07:07PM (#16102227)
> It's essentially the same way to use money, if someone steals from your credit card you're protected, but if it's debit card, it's not?

Debit cards have some protections; the basic difference is that a credit card is spending someone else's money, which you have to pay back to them if it was actually authorized by you; a debit card is spending your money, which you can recover from the bank in certain circumstances if it is accepted to be unauthorized.

Re:Google Pay by Woofles on Monday January 08, 2018 @07:04PM (#16102201)
Actually some banks (if not all, I only really know about my own case with BofA) have protections with debit as well. I left my debit card in an ATM in Peru and someone took it and tried to buy jewelry. They succeeded in two purchases before being declined in the third (I assume for invalid PIN). They alerted me that there were some weird transactions and I was able to recover all $1200 that they spent on my card.
Re:Google Pay by QML on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @04:40AM (#16104809)
Sadly, the United States operates more on a credit system than relying on having cash or funds upfront. Society regresses towards that when people want things that cost more than what they can afford (e.g. homes, cars, college education). Side effect is that you will have people taking out unnecessary loans just to build up a credit.
Re:Google Pay by ovao on Wednesday January 10, 2018 @01:38AM (#16112966)
It’s not difficult to build credit in the U.S. without resorting to maintaining debt, nor accepting unnecessary loans. The credit scoring models in place strongly favor many open, revolving accounts, but also favor the continual paying off of those accounts and maintaining zero balances on the majority of one’s revolving accounts. The scoring models favor low utilization of large amounts of available credit — that the credit in question needs to be in the form of a loan or a fixed line is false.

It’s accurate to say that the U.S. operates on credit moreso than it does on cash, but the rating methods genuinely favor those who have the means to manage credit wisely and pay off revolving balances in full, which is antithetical to the notion of societal “regressions”.

Re:Google Pay by darkstar999 on Monday January 08, 2018 @10:05PM (#16103239)
Not true, I have used a debit card with Android Pay.
Re:Google Pay by desas on Monday January 08, 2018 @02:32PM (#16099482)
Odd, are you in the U.S.A? It's not debit card only in the UK.
Re:Google Pay by vinay427 on Monday January 08, 2018 @03:26PM (#16100127)
I believe GP was saying it was credit card only (no debit cards), or is that what you meant?
Re:Google Pay by dbbk on Monday January 08, 2018 @07:25PM (#16102334)
I find it extremely hard to believe that it's credit card only. Debit cards are more popular in the UK.
Re:Google Pay by kinkrtyavimoodh on Monday January 08, 2018 @02:26PM (#16099400)
And there's Tez in India and no one even remembers Handsfree
Re:Google Pay by nathancahill on Monday January 08, 2018 @03:39PM (#16100272)
Not to mention the various payment options for their services, which sometimes integrate with Wallet/Pay and sometimes don't.
Re:Google Pay by loeg on Monday January 08, 2018 @02:37PM (#16099539)
Huh, I still use wallet for P2P transfers. What do you mean by failed, and is it going away?