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Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by saas_co_de on Saturday December 02, 2017 @11:47AM (#15832699)
It is somewhat amusing that they give scholarships to people with financial industry background, who are the least in need, and who will receive the highest salaries on exit - and then claim that their scholarships are need based.

At least they are teaching their students the ethics they need to succeed in the financial industry.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by watertom on Saturday December 02, 2017 @03:57PM (#15834044)
It is need based, the needs of the university. The people who go into finance and make the most money contribute more to the University.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by zumu on Sunday December 03, 2017 @03:33AM (#15836642)
I wonder if this is primarily an American thing, or if this phenomenon exists in other countries.

Seems like one could solve this issue by making university cheap or free.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by baybal2 on Sunday December 03, 2017 @05:03AM (#15836882)
Not only American, but not common either. The best analogy to American business schools will be party (communist party) schools in Soviet Union and China.

I can't pick words to express just how similar are these two systems.

And in all of those countries, you have huge masses of clueless parents seeing these institutes as something that magically, effortlessly make their children "big men" of higher socioeconomic standing overnight once they graduate.

As for me, my own experience was that it takes a lot to convince parents that Western "big name business school" is a gigantic waste of money if you go there for actual skills and knowledge. And the argument "you go to business school to make connection with kids of other rich people" does not hold water either. All of such students are well connected people to begin with, and are very class conscious themselves. If they see no use of socialising with you, what will make them want doing so?

I wrote another post below explaining how it was for me.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by fjsolwmv on Sunday December 03, 2017 @12:07PM (#15838403)
You're wrong. By getting into the school, and then acting the part well, you can make a friend who gives you an opportunity to get into the class.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by EncipheredBy on Sunday December 03, 2017 @06:25AM (#15837121)
An MBA in the U.S. honestly doesn't even feel like "university" in the traditional sense.

It is essentially an exchange where the student pays a massive amount of tuition money and the university gives them two years to network with people. I believe the goal is to make friends with the folks who were going to get that finance job through their connections anyway, and then maybe they can get YOU a finance job too.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by toyg on Sunday December 03, 2017 @04:37AM (#15836807)
It likely exists anywhere universities rely on alumni’s donations, i.e. anywhere universities are private businesses, like in UK. Probably not a big deal in places where unis are state-funded and places are not limited.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by jknz on Saturday December 02, 2017 @11:54AM (#15832741)
Companies can have both a diversity policy and a policy to make sure the top talents don't go elsewhere.

University too, can have a diversity policy as well as a merit policy. To compete and attract the best students, University must either provide merit based scholarship, or organize with other universities to get rid of merit based scholarships everywhere (cartel!)

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by nostromo on Saturday December 02, 2017 @12:13PM (#15832831)
Sure, but don’t lie about it.

If it’s not need-based, don’t insist it’s need-based.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by jknz on Saturday December 02, 2017 @12:22PM (#15832887)
Ok, lies are unacceptable.

To play devil's advocate here: the press and the public do not want to hear that tech companies pay 7 digits of monthly salary to attract some talent. Nor do they want to hear that Universities have to offer merit based scholarships to attract top students, otherwise these students will go elsewhere.

Companies advertise their diversity efforts but not the salaries of their executives. Stanford said what the public wanted to hear.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by bradleyjg on Saturday December 02, 2017 @06:38PM (#15834978)
> Stanford said what the public wanted to hear.

There's a bait and switch that colleges do. Also hospitals, but mostly colleges.

On the one hand they go out and tell people what a value driven organization it is, how their passion is making the world a better place -- when they are asking for money from people almost of whom have far less in the bank than they already do and when they are defending things like very adventagous tax rates.

On the other hand when they get caught doing something that looks unprincipled or rapacious they all of a sudden become economists lecturing you about how of course every organization acts as an interest maximizier and what are you naive?

Well maybe we were naive. But now that everyone knows what the deal is maybe they can lay off the disingenuous appeals for donations and tax expenditures. Fool me once and all that.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by ramzyo on Sunday December 03, 2017 @12:16AM (#15836086)
I agree. I think universities can be both, but they should just be honest about it! There’s nothing wrong with being both a for profit institution that needs to turn a profit and a value driven organization. Be up front though, and don’t make outsiders feel in the wrong when they call you out for mixed messaging.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by tankenmate on Saturday December 02, 2017 @05:03PM (#15834396)
Laws, like sausages, cease to inspire respect in proportion as we know how they are made. -- John Godfrey Saxe

It would appear that scholarships follow a similar vein.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by crawfordcomeaux on Saturday December 02, 2017 @12:38PM (#15832973)
Our society is culturally configured to promote lying here. Instead of addressing the issue openly like adults, people decide to operate covertly, driven by competition and fear of missing out.

It'll be nice when we start to culturally grow up a bit and begin trusting the world. Collaboration/hybridization is much quicker than competition when it comes to genetic evolution & I suspect the same holds for cultural evolution.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by jamesrcole on Saturday December 02, 2017 @01:26PM (#15833196)
One issue I think we need to address is how society basically judges things based on sound-bite descriptions of them. This is an area where I think IT can contribute, by trying to find ways to bias our communication technologies against such practices.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by crawfordcomeaux on Saturday December 02, 2017 @02:53PM (#15833664)
I think this is a result of design methodologies and motivations geared toward talking advantage of human attention instead of respecting/cultivating it.

We need a design theory based on mindfulness.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by mcguire on Saturday December 02, 2017 @12:47PM (#15833021)
So, to start with, shut down the rules against discussing salaries or university costs with coworkers and other students, respectively.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by asimpletune on Saturday December 02, 2017 @01:14PM (#15833152)
I don’t know if there are rules against that. I think it’s more an unspoken rule that may have consequences if violated, although I’m fairly certain that’s illegal. The impetus is more on us to be open with each other about salary. It’s only in the company’s best interest for us not to do so.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by mcguire on Saturday December 02, 2017 @01:48PM (#15833303)
According to the article,

"[Allcock’s report] says the school also tells applicants not to reveal to their classmates the size of their discount."

Unwritten or unspoken, it does need to go.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by sabujp on Saturday December 02, 2017 @05:18PM (#15834499)
that seems as illegal as telling your employees that they can't share salaries
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by fjsolwmv on Sunday December 03, 2017 @12:09PM (#15838412)
Seems as wrong, not as illegal. Legal is a specific technical standard.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by namelezz on Saturday December 02, 2017 @01:19PM (#15833173)
> So, to start with, shut down the rules against discussing salaries or university costs with coworkers and other students, respectively.

No, this will expose evidences of institutional and systemic racism and question people about the country name. Should it be United State or Segregated State?

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by throw2016 on Saturday December 02, 2017 @02:58PM (#15833707)
How can any individual claim to 'know' what the press and public want to hear? This is a comically self serving assertion and anyone making this kind of claim is acting in a political and manipulative manner.

This is the best apologism for a liar, because apparently that's what the person lied to 'wanted to hear', according to the liar.

Integrity does not depend on what people want to hear. Stanford can articulate their view point and do their own thing. Lying betrays a lack of belief in their view point and a lack of integrity.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by fjsolwmv on Sunday December 03, 2017 @12:08PM (#15838410)
Exec pay is reported and published, required by law.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by trentnix on Saturday December 02, 2017 @12:23PM (#15832891)
The narrative must be maintained, comrade!
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by NotableAlamode on Saturday December 02, 2017 @01:01PM (#15833098)
To paraphrase Brecht:

Who fights for XYZ must be able to fight and not to fight,

to say the truth and not to say the truth,

to render and to deny service,

to keep a promise and to break a promise,

to go into danger and to avoid danger,

to be known and to be unknown.

Who fights for XYZ has of all the virtues only one:

that he fights for XYZ.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by CapacitorSet on Saturday December 02, 2017 @03:57PM (#15834045)
A private university, especially privileging students from finance backgrounds, is about as far from communism as it gets.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by TheOtherHobbes on Saturday December 02, 2017 @05:19PM (#15834503)
Actually, no. This reveals the extent to which the US financial industry operates with similar quasi-aristocratic political dynamics - especially covert privilege based on perceived conformity and career potential - as the old Soviet Communist Party.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by CapacitorSet on Saturday December 02, 2017 @06:53PM (#15835066)
Aristocracy and privilege are about as far from communism as it gets.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by jack9 on Saturday December 02, 2017 @07:03PM (#15835112)
> Aristocracy and privilege are about as far from communism as it gets.

In theory. In practice (history is full of it), the castes develop overnight. A group of individuals has to make decisions and manage the oversight and record keeping, etc. This leads to corruption and a de-facto aristocracy.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by CapacitorSet on Sunday December 03, 2017 @03:21AM (#15836599)
Castes are about as far from communism as it gets.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by richardknop on Sunday December 03, 2017 @07:07AM (#15837248)
You keep repeating this but as somebody from former Warsaw Pact country let me tell you there was a real caste system during communism. Party members were basically royalty. And the ruling caste (top, most loyal apparatchiks) were just like Louis XIV, having completely unlimited powers over other people.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by CapacitorSet on Sunday December 03, 2017 @08:11AM (#15837433)
The existence of castes - social classes - is in direct contrast with the definition of communism, which seeks a classless society.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by richardknop on Sunday December 03, 2017 @08:28AM (#15837475)
Yes but it is not in contrast with every implementation of communism in human history.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by briandear on Sunday December 03, 2017 @12:04AM (#15836052)
Then why were there special stores for Soviet leadership where they could buy products the rest of the population couldn’t?

Is that not privilege? Why could a government official get a car while a normal person would have to wait years?

Children of government officials got preference at the best universities and jobs. Is that not aristocracy?

Communism is all about privilege — everyone is equal but some people are more equal than others.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by obastani on Saturday December 02, 2017 @03:34PM (#15833903)
It is need based -- it goes to the students least in need!

/s

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by notyourday on Saturday December 02, 2017 @02:34PM (#15833574)
If that's the case, why are we surprised that execs are lying? Or shall I say "creatively refining terms"? They start by going to schools that lie, teach how to lie and get away with it.

In some ideal world alums of that school would immediately turn around and tell the school "You will not get a penny until you terminate everyone who participated in approving and carrying out this program for lying and do so publicly" but instead what we are going to get is more pieces about "how the school needs to get better".

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by Kinnard on Saturday December 02, 2017 @07:20PM (#15835183)
>Companies can have both a diversity policy and a policy to make sure the top talents don't go elsewhere.

Those should be one policy, the diversity policy is about making sure top talent doesn't go elsewhere . . . your comment implies that people from "diverse" backgrounds are not top talent, whether that's what you meant or not.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by holbrad on Sunday December 03, 2017 @02:24PM (#15839003)
>the diversity policy is about making sure top talent doesn't go elsewhere

From what I know that doesn't seem to be the case at all, it's about projecting a positive image of your company (The candidates skills are secondary) (Though in theory the standards should be identical)

The hiring practices should be based upon who would be the best candidate (Experience, technical skills, personality, Education)

When you simply focus on what objective skills you need as an employer, you should find "Diverse"/minority candidates in proportion to what percentage of top candidates they occupy.

This surely creates the most level playing field?

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by eli_gottlieb on Saturday December 02, 2017 @09:32PM (#15835651)
One of the chief points in this article was that "diversity" is often an excuse to hire/admit people who will bring in a lot of money, connections, and prestige but aren't necessarily the most meritorious candidate.

Malia Obama is Diverse. John Dorsey from the wrong side of Chicago is just an Urban Youth.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by fjsolwmv on Sunday December 03, 2017 @12:11PM (#15838419)
No one can define "top"
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by Spooky23 on Saturday December 02, 2017 @12:21PM (#15832880)
Well, Stanford has a need for future rich donors. Perhaps that’s the need being met?
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by kelukelugames on Saturday December 02, 2017 @02:29PM (#15833541)
I'm sure people have done studies. Who donates more money? The poor kids who struggled through life and attended Stanfurd that finallyed opened the doors for him to become rich? Or the blue blood with the silver spoon who would have made it through daddy's connections regardless of which school he went to?

I feel the former has stronger gratitude for his school.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by lotsofpulp on Saturday December 02, 2017 @02:41PM (#15833603)
Some don't donate due to gratitude, some donate to increase the chances their children will get in, and/or otherwise obtain social signals or networking benefits that can be used to further oneself.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by at-fates-hands on Saturday December 02, 2017 @03:57PM (#15834047)
From what I know it's the latter.

We had a large percentage of my graduating high school class end up at ivy league schools. It was interesting to talk to them a decade after they had graduated and were in full swing with their professional career's and life.

One buddy I know who went to Princeton and ended up on Wall St told me they hound him for donations. His fraternity does the same with the emphasis on exactly what you pointed out. He wants his children to have a better chance they he did, so he donates large six figure sums every year to the school and fraternity hoping when his two kids grown up, they will have a leg up on the competition to get in there.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by hkmurakami on Saturday December 02, 2017 @05:48PM (#15834662)
As a fellow Princeton grad, I think his children will indeed have a better chance than most of getting in due to their legacy status, resource rich upbringing, and those donations.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by brandnewlow on Saturday December 02, 2017 @06:39PM (#15834987)
As a fellow Princeton grad and one-time admissions officer, I concur 100%.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by hkmurakami on Saturday December 02, 2017 @08:42PM (#15835530)
well that's a whole other level of authority :)
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by hkmurakami on Saturday December 02, 2017 @05:45PM (#15834653)
Look at the buildings. It's the latter mostly. Big checks dominate in typical pareto fashion.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by fjsolwmv on Sunday December 03, 2017 @12:13PM (#15838425)
I have 3 gratitudes and 1 money.

Stanford prefers people with 1 graditut and 3 moneys.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by FabHK on Wednesday December 06, 2017 @04:35AM (#15859790)
you might mean "degrees"?
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by namelezz on Saturday December 02, 2017 @12:25PM (#15832901)
> who are the least in need, and who will receive the highest salaries on exit

Keep in mind they not only give scholarships but also education to the least in need .

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by mathattack on Sunday December 03, 2017 @01:02AM (#15836205)
Business schools use financial aid to bring in students that help their ratings. This can be through tangible #s like GMATs and SATs, to people who will command high salaries (finance background) to students who are likely to make them look good (serial entrepreneurs).
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by mcguire on Saturday December 02, 2017 @12:45PM (#15833008)
Depends on whose needs they're talking about.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by volgo on Sunday December 03, 2017 @02:35AM (#15836482)
Need base depends on your parent's income and their ability to pay tuition. It has nothing to do with future income
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by anonu on Saturday December 02, 2017 @07:51PM (#15835312)
> At least they are teaching their students the ethics they need to succeed in the financial industry.

The US Financial sector probably employs 5 million people in this country. You are telling all those people are unethical as your comment implies? That is a bit biased.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by antibland on Saturday December 02, 2017 @03:50PM (#15834012)
I would vote this up further but it would cause the comment to breach the upper shell of my phone.