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Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by jknz on Saturday December 02, 2017 @11:54AM (#15832741)
Companies can have both a diversity policy and a policy to make sure the top talents don't go elsewhere.

University too, can have a diversity policy as well as a merit policy. To compete and attract the best students, University must either provide merit based scholarship, or organize with other universities to get rid of merit based scholarships everywhere (cartel!)

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by nostromo on Saturday December 02, 2017 @12:13PM (#15832831)
Sure, but don’t lie about it.

If it’s not need-based, don’t insist it’s need-based.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by jknz on Saturday December 02, 2017 @12:22PM (#15832887)
Ok, lies are unacceptable.

To play devil's advocate here: the press and the public do not want to hear that tech companies pay 7 digits of monthly salary to attract some talent. Nor do they want to hear that Universities have to offer merit based scholarships to attract top students, otherwise these students will go elsewhere.

Companies advertise their diversity efforts but not the salaries of their executives. Stanford said what the public wanted to hear.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by bradleyjg on Saturday December 02, 2017 @06:38PM (#15834978)
> Stanford said what the public wanted to hear.

There's a bait and switch that colleges do. Also hospitals, but mostly colleges.

On the one hand they go out and tell people what a value driven organization it is, how their passion is making the world a better place -- when they are asking for money from people almost of whom have far less in the bank than they already do and when they are defending things like very adventagous tax rates.

On the other hand when they get caught doing something that looks unprincipled or rapacious they all of a sudden become economists lecturing you about how of course every organization acts as an interest maximizier and what are you naive?

Well maybe we were naive. But now that everyone knows what the deal is maybe they can lay off the disingenuous appeals for donations and tax expenditures. Fool me once and all that.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by ramzyo on Sunday December 03, 2017 @12:16AM (#15836086)
I agree. I think universities can be both, but they should just be honest about it! There’s nothing wrong with being both a for profit institution that needs to turn a profit and a value driven organization. Be up front though, and don’t make outsiders feel in the wrong when they call you out for mixed messaging.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by tankenmate on Saturday December 02, 2017 @05:03PM (#15834396)
Laws, like sausages, cease to inspire respect in proportion as we know how they are made. -- John Godfrey Saxe

It would appear that scholarships follow a similar vein.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by crawfordcomeaux on Saturday December 02, 2017 @12:38PM (#15832973)
Our society is culturally configured to promote lying here. Instead of addressing the issue openly like adults, people decide to operate covertly, driven by competition and fear of missing out.

It'll be nice when we start to culturally grow up a bit and begin trusting the world. Collaboration/hybridization is much quicker than competition when it comes to genetic evolution & I suspect the same holds for cultural evolution.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by jamesrcole on Saturday December 02, 2017 @01:26PM (#15833196)
One issue I think we need to address is how society basically judges things based on sound-bite descriptions of them. This is an area where I think IT can contribute, by trying to find ways to bias our communication technologies against such practices.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by crawfordcomeaux on Saturday December 02, 2017 @02:53PM (#15833664)
I think this is a result of design methodologies and motivations geared toward talking advantage of human attention instead of respecting/cultivating it.

We need a design theory based on mindfulness.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by mcguire on Saturday December 02, 2017 @12:47PM (#15833021)
So, to start with, shut down the rules against discussing salaries or university costs with coworkers and other students, respectively.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by asimpletune on Saturday December 02, 2017 @01:14PM (#15833152)
I don’t know if there are rules against that. I think it’s more an unspoken rule that may have consequences if violated, although I’m fairly certain that’s illegal. The impetus is more on us to be open with each other about salary. It’s only in the company’s best interest for us not to do so.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by mcguire on Saturday December 02, 2017 @01:48PM (#15833303)
According to the article,

"[Allcock’s report] says the school also tells applicants not to reveal to their classmates the size of their discount."

Unwritten or unspoken, it does need to go.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by sabujp on Saturday December 02, 2017 @05:18PM (#15834499)
that seems as illegal as telling your employees that they can't share salaries
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by fjsolwmv on Sunday December 03, 2017 @12:09PM (#15838412)
Seems as wrong, not as illegal. Legal is a specific technical standard.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by namelezz on Saturday December 02, 2017 @01:19PM (#15833173)
> So, to start with, shut down the rules against discussing salaries or university costs with coworkers and other students, respectively.

No, this will expose evidences of institutional and systemic racism and question people about the country name. Should it be United State or Segregated State?

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by throw2016 on Saturday December 02, 2017 @02:58PM (#15833707)
How can any individual claim to 'know' what the press and public want to hear? This is a comically self serving assertion and anyone making this kind of claim is acting in a political and manipulative manner.

This is the best apologism for a liar, because apparently that's what the person lied to 'wanted to hear', according to the liar.

Integrity does not depend on what people want to hear. Stanford can articulate their view point and do their own thing. Lying betrays a lack of belief in their view point and a lack of integrity.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by fjsolwmv on Sunday December 03, 2017 @12:08PM (#15838410)
Exec pay is reported and published, required by law.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by trentnix on Saturday December 02, 2017 @12:23PM (#15832891)
The narrative must be maintained, comrade!
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by NotableAlamode on Saturday December 02, 2017 @01:01PM (#15833098)
To paraphrase Brecht:

Who fights for XYZ must be able to fight and not to fight,

to say the truth and not to say the truth,

to render and to deny service,

to keep a promise and to break a promise,

to go into danger and to avoid danger,

to be known and to be unknown.

Who fights for XYZ has of all the virtues only one:

that he fights for XYZ.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by CapacitorSet on Saturday December 02, 2017 @03:57PM (#15834045)
A private university, especially privileging students from finance backgrounds, is about as far from communism as it gets.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by TheOtherHobbes on Saturday December 02, 2017 @05:19PM (#15834503)
Actually, no. This reveals the extent to which the US financial industry operates with similar quasi-aristocratic political dynamics - especially covert privilege based on perceived conformity and career potential - as the old Soviet Communist Party.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by CapacitorSet on Saturday December 02, 2017 @06:53PM (#15835066)
Aristocracy and privilege are about as far from communism as it gets.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by jack9 on Saturday December 02, 2017 @07:03PM (#15835112)
> Aristocracy and privilege are about as far from communism as it gets.

In theory. In practice (history is full of it), the castes develop overnight. A group of individuals has to make decisions and manage the oversight and record keeping, etc. This leads to corruption and a de-facto aristocracy.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by CapacitorSet on Sunday December 03, 2017 @03:21AM (#15836599)
Castes are about as far from communism as it gets.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by richardknop on Sunday December 03, 2017 @07:07AM (#15837248)
You keep repeating this but as somebody from former Warsaw Pact country let me tell you there was a real caste system during communism. Party members were basically royalty. And the ruling caste (top, most loyal apparatchiks) were just like Louis XIV, having completely unlimited powers over other people.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by CapacitorSet on Sunday December 03, 2017 @08:11AM (#15837433)
The existence of castes - social classes - is in direct contrast with the definition of communism, which seeks a classless society.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by richardknop on Sunday December 03, 2017 @08:28AM (#15837475)
Yes but it is not in contrast with every implementation of communism in human history.
Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by briandear on Sunday December 03, 2017 @12:04AM (#15836052)
Then why were there special stores for Soviet leadership where they could buy products the rest of the population couldn’t?

Is that not privilege? Why could a government official get a car while a normal person would have to wait years?

Children of government officials got preference at the best universities and jobs. Is that not aristocracy?

Communism is all about privilege — everyone is equal but some people are more equal than others.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by obastani on Saturday December 02, 2017 @03:34PM (#15833903)
It is need based -- it goes to the students least in need!

/s

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by notyourday on Saturday December 02, 2017 @02:34PM (#15833574)
If that's the case, why are we surprised that execs are lying? Or shall I say "creatively refining terms"? They start by going to schools that lie, teach how to lie and get away with it.

In some ideal world alums of that school would immediately turn around and tell the school "You will not get a penny until you terminate everyone who participated in approving and carrying out this program for lying and do so publicly" but instead what we are going to get is more pieces about "how the school needs to get better".

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by Kinnard on Saturday December 02, 2017 @07:20PM (#15835183)
>Companies can have both a diversity policy and a policy to make sure the top talents don't go elsewhere.

Those should be one policy, the diversity policy is about making sure top talent doesn't go elsewhere . . . your comment implies that people from "diverse" backgrounds are not top talent, whether that's what you meant or not.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by holbrad on Sunday December 03, 2017 @02:24PM (#15839003)
>the diversity policy is about making sure top talent doesn't go elsewhere

From what I know that doesn't seem to be the case at all, it's about projecting a positive image of your company (The candidates skills are secondary) (Though in theory the standards should be identical)

The hiring practices should be based upon who would be the best candidate (Experience, technical skills, personality, Education)

When you simply focus on what objective skills you need as an employer, you should find "Diverse"/minority candidates in proportion to what percentage of top candidates they occupy.

This surely creates the most level playing field?

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by eli_gottlieb on Saturday December 02, 2017 @09:32PM (#15835651)
One of the chief points in this article was that "diversity" is often an excuse to hire/admit people who will bring in a lot of money, connections, and prestige but aren't necessarily the most meritorious candidate.

Malia Obama is Diverse. John Dorsey from the wrong side of Chicago is just an Urban Youth.

Re:Stanford University data glitch exposes truth about schol... by fjsolwmv on Sunday December 03, 2017 @12:11PM (#15838419)
No one can define "top"