News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by mrweasel on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @01:56PM (#15809671)
It really raises the question why anyone would put a software company in the Silicon Valley area. You could get cheaper and more experienced people pretty much anywhere in the world for at least 60 - 70% the price.
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by lloyd-christmas on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @02:25PM (#15809980)
Not as easily. There is a reason all the banks are based in NYC. Recruitment and networking is as easy as walking across the street. The same holds for tech. Cost of hiring is extremely high no matter where you are, and it likely goes up even more when trying to recruit someone to move to the middle of the country. I mean no disrespect to middle america by that statement, I just mean that the probability of having to uproot is much higher when there are 2 companies in town vs. 200.
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by lostboys67 on Thursday November 30, 2017 @05:03AM (#15814655)
And access to lots of capital
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by ng12 on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @02:24PM (#15809969)
Quantity is the problem. I'm sure there are some blindingly talented developers in New Hampshire but there's probably only a few of them and they're more than likely gainfully employed by a company that appreciates their value. Hiring an engineer for 60% of the price doesn't help when you can only fill a third of your headcount.
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by Nuzzerino on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @02:33PM (#15810056)
You're more likely than not going to get an equally untalented developer in Silicon Valley, for the same reason. The talented ones are likely already gainfully employed. I would go out on a limb and say that there are more smooth talkers with silver tongues in Silicon Valley, who will talk their way through an interview and only provide the perception of talent. Still think it's wise to start a company there?

It has nothing to do with the actual facts of the job market, and everything to do with the demands of the VC cartel.

Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by ng12 on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @03:14PM (#15810423)
I've actually had the opposite experience: I've found way more silver-tounged developers outside of the Bay. It's hard to bullshit in SV because most worthwhile companies have at least a few people who have been around the block a few times. The smaller the market the easier it is to hype yourself up. I've even noticed it in NYC -- a lot of developers who are able to talk a big game because many of the finance/ad-tech firms are relatively easy to fool.
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by DonHopkins on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @03:29PM (#15810549)
>It's hard to bullshit in SV...

The how did people like Robert Scoble thrive for so long in Silicon Valley?

I agree that New York in particular (and also London) is also full of silver tongued charlatans, and that has a lot to do with the culture and cocaine of finance/ad-tech firms.

Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by borski on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @04:51PM (#15811189)
Strawman. Robert Scoble never claimed to be an engineer.
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by Nuzzerino on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @08:59PM (#15812823)
> The smaller the market the easier it is to hype yourself up.

Okay, I can accept this. My hunch is that yes, it is easier to hype yourself up for a given company, but if there are fewer companies, you have fewer chances to do so, and therefore you're taking a bigger risk. Smaller cities can be big targets for con men because fewer con men are there and therefore one is less likely to know the given tactic that a con man will try.

This gets complicated into game theory and rationality and such. There's no way to know for sure, it's a good idea to be wise to these concepts regardless of location though. I still think that SV is incredibly overvalued, at this point in time, from both an employer and employee perspective.

Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by DonHopkins on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @03:17PM (#15810451)
You hit the nail on the head, but it's not limited to (but is concentrated in) Silicon Valley:

>I would go out on a limb and say that there are more smooth talkers with silver tongues in Silicon Valley, who will talk their way through an interview and only provide the perception of talent.

And smooth bloggers with silver cursors, who will type their way through a posting only to provide the perception of talent. People famous for being famous, cheerleaders who fancy themselves the authority on this or that because they have a lot of followers, but have no technical skills whatsoever, and have never done any of the difficult tedious shit work and midnight oil combustion required to ship a real product, like Scoble and his emulators.

I think a big wave of incompetent developers started with the "Ruby on Rails in 10 minutes" screencast that anyone could watch and easily duplicate the exact same CRUD web site with lots of pretty frosting and absolutely no cake. So many "dot com" startup web sites since then have the same level of out-of-the-box polish and spray-on tan, yet absolutely nothing tangible behind them, in terms of skilled thorough execution or original tractable ideas.

The shoddy buggy thrown-together quality, carelessly flagrant and criminal privacy violations in the naked pursuit of virality, and total lack of maintenance and customer support of sites like AngelList.com, where the lights are on but nobody's home, exemplify what I mean. It's got about as much depth and execution as "Hot or Not", and explicitly caters and appeals to the Silicon Valley charlatan crowd.

Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11326011

diskcat: "This is damage control. You clearly want to make people update their profiles or whatever by pretending to be somebody else they know. You went with an immoral strategy to grow your business and that now it has finally hit you in the face on a very visible website you are here to be all apologetics. It's the "easier to ask for forgiveness rather than permission" strategy and it is deliberate thus I must conclude that your apology is insincere and is only an attempt at limiting the backlash against you."

AngelList acquires Product Hunt (techcrunch.com): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13080283

exogeny: "Why are we applauding Ryan again? This is a saving face bailout from one of their own investors and a particularly embarrassing one at that given his statements of "I wouldn't consider anything under $100mm" and the pedigree of his investors. They raised a shit ton of money and built nothing. No real technology, no significant additions to their platform, no development of community. And now the result is an all-stock acquihire from AL, which will amount of a purchase of their users and a one year rental of the same engineers and team that failed to build anything worthwhile. Raising money at a $22m val from A16Z and selling for less than that - all stock no less - is a failure, and we need to stop lauding it as if it's somehow notable or impressive to take money and waste it."

Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by eli_gottlieb on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @08:37PM (#15812678)
There are plenty in Boston, and apparently our salaries remain a fair bit lower than those in the Bay Area. Come on over and bid our incomes up! Please!
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by Tade0 on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @02:11PM (#15809814)
My compensation is roughly 40% of the lower end of any of these charts, and that's considered "not bad" in my area.

This makes me think: how valuable our work is really? Do I have a job only because I'm an inexpensive alternative to the devs from the US and western Europe?

Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by drspacemonkey on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @02:23PM (#15809952)
Once you take the exchange rate into account, I'm below the 2nd percentile for a senior dev. And I make a great salary for the Vancouver area.

I knew I could double my salary south of the border, but that hurts.

Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by sdesol on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @02:45PM (#15810186)
I've heard it's very difficult to get H1B visa's now a days, so Canadians looking to move to the states, might not be able to.
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by noirknight on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @03:16PM (#15810440)
Canadians have a TN visa option which is much simpler to get than H1B. There is no quota limit.
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by sdesol on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @03:18PM (#15810465)
But software programmers don't qualify for TN visa. System analyst is the closes I think.
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by borski on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @04:54PM (#15811216)
They do under either Engineer or Computer Systems Analyst, depending on the case.
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by nawgszy on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @04:58PM (#15811263)
They do if they have a Software (or otherwise) Engineering degree, and getting in as a CSA just means you need to have 'microservices' and 'managerial' duties in your role
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by JabavuAdams on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @09:05PM (#15812851)
Wrong. You just need to phrase it the right way. The government bureaucracy considers programmers as typists, and systems analysts as programmers.
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by sdesol on Thursday November 30, 2017 @07:37PM (#15821012)
And if the border guard doesn't like the wording, they'll reject you at the border.
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by sjg007 on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @06:00PM (#15811706)
I don’t know.. Vancouver is a great place to live!
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by sokoloff on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @03:16PM (#15810441)
We have global SWE footprint and, as a hiring manager/executive, I can tell you that cost is a factor, but it's not the only one for us.

If you can't do top work, I don't care how cheap you are. If you can, I don't need to chisel out the last penny that you're willing to take to show up to work.

Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by mrweasel on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @03:18PM (#15810462)
I make less than $100K and despite my 10+ years experience I'm by no means underpaid, and I'm in Denmark, a rather expensive country to live in.
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by swat535 on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @03:40PM (#15810627)
I also make less than $100k in Canada and I can live a comfortable life with no issues
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by qaq on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @04:26PM (#15811008)
You have to account for tax differences the numbers are pre-tax
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by guyzero on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @02:13PM (#15809833)
given that the biggest software companies of the last 20 years have mostly been in the Bay Area, maybe there's a flaw in your assumption that there are "more experienced people pretty much anywhere."
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by Tade0 on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @02:42PM (#15810150)
I think it says more about their top performers and business practices than the skills of the average developer employed by them.
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by Nuzzerino on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @02:36PM (#15810090)
I think that has more to do with the VC cartel than the amount of actual talent. Besides, the cost of living has heavily changed over the years, and the amount of feces and dirty needles on SF streets have increased rapidly lately. Talented people are more likely to realize this is a farce, and leave the area. The historical circumstances may not hold true anymore.
Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by pcsanwald on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @03:37PM (#15810607)
in my experience, a couple reasons:

1. It's far easier to raise money from VCs if you are located in SV/SF vs anywhere else in the country.

2. Once you raise that money, the only thing you are going to spend it on is employees. Infrastructure costs, real estate costs, etc, are comparatively cheap.

3. People starting companies rarely look around and decide where they should strategically be located based on costs. A few do, including my last company which was located in baltimore, but not many. Most people want to start their companies where they already live, and have a network for hiring, etc.

These 3 things, and probably others, lead to a significant amount of new companies getting started in SF/SV.

Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by ionforce on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @02:49PM (#15810218)
> You could get cheaper and more experienced people pretty much anywhere in the world for at least 60 - 70% the price.

If this was true and the only thing that people wanted, then it would have been done already. But clearly that's not all there is.

Re:Silicon Valley Software Engineer Salaries by Experience L... by jldugger on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @02:24PM (#15809970)
One potential explanation is that recruiting is waaay easier when there's three other software firms within a city block of your office to recruit talent from.