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Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by joosters on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:04PM (#15766356)
1) They've conveniently ignored many crypto coins with high transaction levels

2) It's believed that 68% of all ethereum transaction value is controlled by just one system - https://blog.cyber.fund/huge-ethereum-mixer-6cf98680ee6c - A large number of ethereum transactions are just mixing coins to hide ownership.

Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by DennisP on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:17PM (#15766446)
Which coins with high transaction levels do you mean?

I'm not aware of other fully-public blockchains that have comparably high levels, though maybe I'm missing something. With permissioned chains it's much easier to reach high throughput.

The so-called mixer has been debunked here before. It actually looks like exchanges, and the temporary addresses they generate for deposits. That does mean that a large portion of transactions are with exchanges, but that shouldn't surprise anyone, and would be the same on Bitcoin.

Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by th0br0 on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:40PM (#15766608)
The IOTA network sustained >1.1 million TX over the last 24h as well (a bit more because there's a gap in my stats) - most without value however.

The selection of protocols is indeed quite selective.

Disclaimer: I work on IOTA.

Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by haakon on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:44PM (#15766635)
Not really comparable, since IOTA is centralized in its current form.
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by Buttes on Thursday November 23, 2017 @01:18PM (#15766852)
And since they're value-less transactions, essentially unrewarded mining activity.
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by tyrust on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:45PM (#15766640)
The commenter you replied to asked for public blockchains. Until the coordinator is turned off IOTA is a permissioned blockchain.
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by mycall on Thursday November 23, 2017 @05:12PM (#15768148)
IOTA doesn't have a blockchain, its a DAG.
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by cgb223 on Thursday November 23, 2017 @03:15PM (#15767533)
How’s the work on Iota going?

Are we anywhere near close enough to get rid of the centralization?

I’m really excited about the project

Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by th0br0 on Friday November 24, 2017 @08:33AM (#15770919)
Lots to do and hard to find talented hands to work on things. But great overall - both on seeing adoption in real world use cases and development side.

As for the other question: once the network is more - next year?

Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by gruez on Thursday November 23, 2017 @01:04PM (#15766760)
>I'm not aware of other fully-public blockchains that have comparably high levels, though maybe I'm missing something. With permissioned chains it's much easier to reach high throughput.

but the title says "Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital Currencies Combined". note "Digital Currencies", not "blockchain currencies".

Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by Kiro on Thursday November 23, 2017 @02:03PM (#15767135)
It was a reply to "1) They've conveniently ignored many crypto coins with high transaction levels" though.
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by mconnell on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:36PM (#15766586)
XRP would be one, Tuesday's transaction count was 951,163: https://xrpcharts.ripple.com/#/metrics
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by drcode on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:41PM (#15766610)
Is it really a cryptocurrency though? It seems more like a paypal alternative (i.e. the ripple foundation can roll back any transaction at will and has done so in the past)
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by xorcist on Thursday November 23, 2017 @02:41PM (#15767354)
In all fairness, so has the Ethereum Foundation with the DAO and the latest Parity hack is not unlikely to be next.
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by woah on Thursday November 23, 2017 @04:05PM (#15767780)
The difference is that the DAO hardfork was not done by the Ethereum Foundation. It was recommended by the Ethereum Foundation and the actually done by the vast majority of miners, in consensus.
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by justinjlynn on Friday November 24, 2017 @02:11AM (#15769875)
No, seriously; which transactions were reversed? I'm unaware of any such thing occurring on the network.

The construction of the network/consensus protocol means that Ripple would have to get a majority of all validators on the majority of everyone's UNLs to lie to reverse a transaction. Ripple likely does not have such influence /or/ if they do, then you are free to select a larger UNL set, along with the rest of the community, such that they /do not/.

Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by justinjlynn on Thursday November 23, 2017 @02:24PM (#15767263)
> has done so in the past

Which?

Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by CryptoPunk on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:50PM (#15766664)
Ripple is a permissioned blockchain.
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by peterisza on Thursday November 23, 2017 @02:00PM (#15767122)
I don't think it is a blockchain. Google ripple consensus protocol.
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by justinjlynn on Friday November 24, 2017 @02:17AM (#15769895)
It is a Merkle DAG of transactions secured by cryptographic protocols. It very much is a blockchain -- it just doesn't use proof of work as a mechanism to exclude bad actors. The fact that it uses UNLs and consensus to achieve a consistent view of valid transactions does not make Ripple "not a blockchain" and, as XRP relies on cryptographic mechanisms to secure rights of ownership on that blockchain, XRP, the native Ripple asset, is by definition a cryptocurrency in the colloquial sense.
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by FatalLogic on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:22PM (#15766489)
And transaction value is a very different thing from the number of transactions. In this case, that exchange system has been estimated to be doing about 10% of the total number of transactions, not 68%
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by joosters on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:22PM (#15766487)
BitShares and Steem, for example : http://blocktivity.info/
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by CryptoPunk on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:36PM (#15766583)
BitShares and Steemit are both highly centralized. Their architecture is very similar to a traditional server client set up: they have a small number of trusted nodes, and non validating clients that depend on them.

And the transactions in Steemit at least are generally very low value, with 1-cent upvotes and article/comment entries making up the bulk of them. In comparison, the average value of an Ethereum transaction is $10,000.

Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by joosters on Thursday November 23, 2017 @01:57PM (#15767107)
Centralized or not, they are still digital currency, or crypto coins, both use a blockchain. The centralization is a moot point, you are picking at hairs.

The value of the transactions may differ, but at least the Steem transactions are more likely to be 'real', that is to say they are transferring value from one person to another. See my earlier comment about how a large proportion of ethereum 'value' is merely shuffling coins between different wallets of the same owners.

Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by Taek on Thursday November 23, 2017 @04:06PM (#15767790)
Sia does an estimated 100,000 transactions per day doing uploads and downloads via payment channels. Fully decentralized and trustless, yet because it's layer 2 these transactions are often overlooked.
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by joosters on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:26PM (#15766522)
Have you a source for that? I'd be interested in reading about it.

In any case, the end result is the same. There's a large amplification factor in ethereum transactions, since many transactions are just the shuffling of coins without any value actually changing hands.

Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by DennisP on Thursday November 23, 2017 @01:12PM (#15766805)
I did a quick google and didn't find the article I was thinking of. But it's actually only 10% of transactions, which is the metric the OP's article is about, and 68% of transaction value. But if it's just the normal operation of exchanges I don't think we can really conclude that there's no value changing hands. If you transfer funds from one account on Coinbase to another on Kraken or whatever, there's a temporary address involved, just like the article is describing. And it's the same with Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by joosters on Thursday November 23, 2017 @02:07PM (#15767154)
The article implies that there are more transactions going on than would be expected for an exchange with lots of user accounts. The first diagram suggests that there is a rotation of transactions, i.e. coins are churned through multiple addresses many times. That kind of thing is not needed to operate an exchange; you just need to gather money from deposits, send money to withdrawals (many exchanges fail at this point :) and shuffle the rest between a hot wallet and an offline store from time to time. In other words, the ethereum transactions are far in excess of what a typical exchange would need. A bitcoin exchange doing so many transactions would probably go bust from the fees alone!

(However, the story isn't crystal clear about what they mean by the 'rotation' of transactions. It says 'rotated 80 times' but I'm not sure if that means each input address goes through 80 transactions before going to an output.)

Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by cordite on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:51PM (#15766671)
"just mixing coins to hide ownership"

Isn't that the definition of laundering?

Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by drcode on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:57PM (#15766713)
No, it's something called "privacy", which can be used towards good ends or bad ends... I don't want to live in a world where anyone who values privacy is immediately viewed as suspicious, where we say that "anyone who tries to maintain privacy must be a criminal"
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by wpietri on Thursday November 23, 2017 @02:03PM (#15767137)
Well, unfortunately you do live in one of those worlds, at least as far as the flow of money goes.

As we see with the adoption of credit and debit cards, mobile billing, and things like ApplePay, most people don't mind having their transactions recorded. Indeed, for a lot of people it's a benefit; I avoid paying with cash so that I can easily use things like Mint to have a better understanding of my spending.

Criminals, on the other hand, strongly value secrecy over convenience, and tracking money is one of the best ways to keep crime in check. So unless you find some way to eliminate crime, being secretive about money flows will always put you in company with criminals.

IMHO, lack of anti-crime controls was one of Bitcoin's biggest early mistakes. It was much worse for, say, buying a book online. But it was much better for crime, including digital extortion and fraud. It quickly picked up a taint that it's never really been able to shake. Let that be a lesson to startup founders everywhere: your early adopters can easily define your company.

Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by Veratyr on Thursday November 23, 2017 @03:20PM (#15767556)
> Well, unfortunately you do live in one of those worlds, at least as far as the flow of money goes.

What about people who pay with cash? I know people who use cash for privacy reasons but society doesn't treat them like criminals.

Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by hvk on Thursday November 23, 2017 @08:34PM (#15768941)
Not necessarily true in the USA. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_Secrecy_Act#Affected_tran... for example. I can only imagine how suspiciously any normal bank would generally treat a customer that walks in and tries to withdraw, say $50,000 in cash, for example.
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by wpietri on Friday November 24, 2017 @01:04AM (#15769701)
For small amounts of cash, it's not a problem. But any cash transaction over $10k must be reported. [1] (Structuring your transactions so as to sneak under the limit is illegal.) The same goes for traveling across a US border with over $10k in cash or cash equivalent.

Even under that level, though, some level of suspicion attaches to large wads of cash. I've had vendors ask for cash payment for things in the $1-5k range, and it was pretty clear to me that they had tax evasion in mind.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_transaction_report

Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by heisenbit on Thursday November 23, 2017 @05:33PM (#15768253)
Yet
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by rlpb on Thursday November 23, 2017 @05:48PM (#15768330)
> ...being secretive about money flows will always put you in company with criminals.

It matters what is being kept secret from whom. I don't tell the general public about my finances. I do accurately tell the tax authorities what I am required to disclose, and I can back that up by accounting for all (material) transactions that I have made. This is what distinguishes me from money launderers.

It's perfectly reasonable to attempt to hide in a public blockchain while simultaneously maintaining private records and making the appropriate declarations to the authorities.

As you're not an authority, you will never see the legal side of it. But that doesn't put anyone in the company of criminals any more than the fact that you don't publish your finances online puts you in the company of criminals.

> It was much worse for, say, buying a book online. But it was much better for crime, including digital extortion and fraud. It quickly picked up a taint that it's never really been able to shake.

I would argue that it is the most useful cryptocurrency that attracts legitimate and criminal users alike. It's not a "taint" caused by a consequence of some criminal-friendly design. Any higher level of criminality is a direct consequence of being the most used cryptocurrency. If something else takes over, then the criminals will switch too.

Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by wpietri on Friday November 24, 2017 @01:13AM (#15769722)
I agree that some people have reasons for keeping blockchain transactions private. But criminals have much stronger reasons to keep them private.

The most useful cryptocurrency is not as broadly useful as other means of moving money around. So if it has advantages for criminals, criminals will use it disproportionately. Ransomware generally doesn't take Visa and Mastercard. The Silk Road was Bitcoin's most prominent early adopter. And the early Bitcoin market was also rife with scams, fraud, Ponzi schemes, and all manner of other criminal idiocy: https://www.amazon.com/Attack-50-Foot-Blockchain-Contracts-e...

Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by CryptoPunk on Thursday November 23, 2017 @06:12PM (#15768443)
>>IMHO, lack of anti-crime controls was one of Bitcoin's biggest early mistakes.

Elimination of privacy is not an "anti-crime control".

Much of cryptocurrency's value comes from the privacy it gives its users.

Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by wpietri on Friday November 24, 2017 @01:16AM (#15769730)
If you can work strong anti-crime controls into a digital currency while still maintaining privacy, I encourage you to do so. Otherwise, anything allowing secret movements of large sums of money will be hugely appealing to criminals, exactly as we saw with Bitcoin.
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by WikipediasBad on Thursday November 23, 2017 @11:33PM (#15769409)
You must be a joy at parties. Although your last sentence is profound and intuitive advice for startups as a general rule, you must be pretty insufferable in person.
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by ransom1538 on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:59PM (#15766725)
No. They would have to prove the source is from "unlawful activity". But knowing the creativity of the DOJ, I am sure they could come up with something.

"Whoever, knowing that the property involved in a financial transaction represents the proceeds of some form of unlawful activity, conducts or attempts to conduct such a financial transaction which in fact involves the proceeds of specified unlawful activity—"

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1956

Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by firethief on Thursday November 23, 2017 @05:58PM (#15768383)
It achieves a weaker level of privacy than cash's. Hiding transactions from the public at large is necessary, but not sufficient, to hide transactions from the government.
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by eru on Thursday November 23, 2017 @01:43PM (#15767030)
Depends. I think you can mix your coins all you like as long as you declare your income to the taxman?
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by eqmvii on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:53PM (#15766687)
Yes
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by icebraining on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:59PM (#15766722)
I don't think so. Money laundering is hiding the source of the money, usually because it's illicit.

This might be tax evasion if you hide it from the IRS, but that's not laundering.

IANAL, of course.

Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by geezerjay on Thursday November 23, 2017 @01:41PM (#15767015)
Wikipedia's article on money laundering states that in some countries obfuscating the sources of money is considered money laundering. This means that at least in some countries this fits precisely the definition of money laundering.
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by unfunco on Thursday November 23, 2017 @01:09PM (#15766790)
A drug dealer tumbling ether _is_ hiding the source of the money.
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by kompiuter on Thursday November 23, 2017 @02:05PM (#15767144)
Forgive my ignorance but how does mixing achieve privacy? The blockchain is public, so you should be able to trace back ownership regardless of the number of addresses it's been through?
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by lm2s on Thursday November 23, 2017 @02:08PM (#15767168)
If X people send to an address and then the amount is distributed by a different number of outputs (for example 3 addresses for 1 person, 4 for another, etc) you can see how it can make hard to track down who has what.
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by srtjstjsj on Thursday November 23, 2017 @05:14PM (#15768164)
Hard for people, but simple for a computer program to get a high-confidence guess as to which addresses are co-owned
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by kompiuter on Thursday November 23, 2017 @02:48PM (#15767403)
I see, thank you for clarifying.
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by ChrisClark on Thursday November 23, 2017 @01:39PM (#15766999)
A good distinction to make, 68% of the value is going through the mixers. I saw a calculation that it's only about 17% of the actual number of transactions.
[dead]
Re:Ethereum Now Handles More Transactions Than All Digital C... by dna_polymerase on Thursday November 23, 2017 @01:59PM (#15767120)
Stop posting minimal replies to advertise your website. Do a Show HN or just stop completely.