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Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by oblio on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:03AM (#15765094)
Now that's something I haven't heard about in the US for a few decades: strikes.

I'm partly kidding, but have there been any major strikes in the US lately?

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by djsumdog on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:39AM (#15765305)
Strikers in US media are often belittled. Think back to the Occupy Movement.

The banks were bailed out, none of those people who caused so much misery were ever put in jail, and the media belittled Occupy as being directionless and pointless. The protest was huge, stretching across cities and countries, but there was never any accountability for the banksters. It shows again as the Equifax execs were cleared of insider trading, when they were obviously insider trading.

When I was in London a few years ago, there was a massive tube strike. The train drivers were belittled in the media with reports claiming they made over 55k GBP a year, more than many nurses. They neglected to mention the new night train program would have meant long 7 to 14 week night shifts for every tube driver. The city was voted in on night trains, but had no money to fund them. So the blame gets passed all the way down to the tube drivers.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by Ntrails on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:58AM (#15765420)
That's not entirely true. The strike was over the fact that if not enough drivers _volunteered_ to do the night shifts, TFL could assign non volunteers. They would still be compensated for the work hours being particularly antisocial.

It is also true that Tube drivers are well paid and yes that does impact the levels of sympathy available to them. The change was absolutely funded - just not as well as the union would like.

In essence, however, tube drivers having veto rights over being scheduled to work nights presents an opportunity to cause shortages and disruption without any ramifications or declaration of strike etc. It was a giant liability for TFL to accept.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by Joeboy on Thursday November 23, 2017 @10:20AM (#15765525)
> Tube drivers are well paid and yes that does impact the levels of sympathy available to them.

£55k isn't that well paid for people who have to live in or near London. Not if you consider it the kind of job where you should be able to afford luxuries like a family, a car, a mortgage, saving for retirement etc. It probably does sound like a lot to people who live outside London and / or aren't considering those things.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by chimeracoder on Thursday November 23, 2017 @10:24AM (#15765555)
> £55k isn't that well paid for people who have to live in or near London

It's more than the typical software engineer can expect to make in London.

Source: Glassdoor, Indeed, talking to colleagues who live in London, and my own memories from my last job search.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by Joeboy on Thursday November 23, 2017 @10:50AM (#15765745)
Personally I would say a tube driver is just as entitled to a decent life as an average software developer but I realize this may be the wrong audience for that argument.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by eru on Thursday November 23, 2017 @01:42PM (#15767024)
Depends on what you mean by 'entitled'?

In an ideal world we'd all have ponies, but in reality there's still scarcity so we have to ration resources one way or another. (And then whatever rationing system we use interacts with human incentives and lots of other systems.)

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by Joeboy on Thursday November 23, 2017 @03:04PM (#15767477)
> Depends on what you mean by 'entitled'?

I'm not sure it does. I can't think of a reasonable definition whereby I consider an average software developer to be more entitled to a decent life than a tube driver.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by eru on Thursday November 23, 2017 @04:37PM (#15767955)
The definition that has one 'entitled' to whatever one can get in a voluntary exchange of goods and services?
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by gsnedders on Thursday November 23, 2017 @10:48AM (#15765739)
OTOH, they have worse health prospects than most software engineers and they mostly have contractual requirements to live within x miles of the depot they're based out of.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by vixen99 on Thursday November 23, 2017 @11:10AM (#15765905)
Serious consideration is being given to driverless cars so why not similarly upgrade all trains for situations far less demanding than public roads?
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by gsnedders on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:43PM (#15766624)
The new tube stock is designed for it to be retrofitted, but replacing all of the signalling equipment is expensive (and likely to require some closures, both of segments of the line being upgraded and of the whole line).

The subsurface lines have interworking with normal mainline services, in some places sharing platforms with them, which makes fitting platform-edge doors very difficult if not impossible.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by djsumdog on Thursday November 23, 2017 @11:36PM (#15769421)
It's rolling in slowly. Many London lines are automated. Trains in Singapore are all automated and rarely ever have drivers. London will get to that point after they replace the existing train stock.

Driverless cars can't match the volume of trains:

http://penguindreams.org/blog/self-driving-cars-will-not-sol...

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by gsnedders on Friday November 24, 2017 @11:16AM (#15771556)
What's currently happening in London is the sub-surface lines are GoA 1 (i.e., "a train system with signals") and are moving to GoA 2 (i.e., "the train drives itself from station to station unless the driver intervenes").

The new deep-level stock (i.e., New Tube for London) is specified to be able to be retrofitted with GoA 4 equipment (i.e., "there are no staff on the train, driver, attendant, or otherwise"), but will start out as GoA 2 (Victoria, Central, Northern, and Jubilee lines are already fitted and run as such with their existing stock).

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by vkou on Thursday November 23, 2017 @04:47PM (#15768002)
And why should a software engineer in a comfy desk job be entitled to a higher wage then a tube worker?

All the software engineers in London could quit tomorrow, and life would largely go on. All the tube workers could quit tomorrow, and the city would quickly grind to a halt.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by phyller on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:32PM (#15769092)
Possibly because becoming a software engineer often takes years of schooling, requires a level of aptitude that puts it out of reach for many people, and then requires continuous additional effort to keep up with the field. If this sort of thing is not compensated for more highly than low skill jobs, much fewer people would do it. Of course this argument breaks down if being a tube driver takes as much intelligence, motivation, and education as a software engineer. I don't have experience in that field. But it does seem to me that if you hired a team of software engineers for a few years you could develop a system that would not require tube drivers to exist at all. Then the city wouldn't have to worry about grinding to a halt if anyone quits.

But basically having higher wages for jobs that are harder to fill, or are more important to have highly qualified people in them, seems to be a system that works pretty well. Paying everyone the same wage seems to be a system that has largely failed anywhere it has been tried.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by literallycancer on Thursday November 23, 2017 @05:45PM (#15768316)
Yea, if you are working as an engineer for less than 55k in London (i.e. the most expensive city in Europe) you are doing something wrong.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by rmc on Friday November 24, 2017 @03:50AM (#15770152)
Sounds like the software devs should strike too. You're very underpaid in London, which is very expensive.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by eru on Thursday November 23, 2017 @10:47AM (#15765723)
You'd be very junior to make less than 55k GBP as a software developer in London. (Like less than three years working experience or so.)
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by user15672 on Thursday November 23, 2017 @01:02PM (#15766742)
This really isn't true and I really wish this myth would stop. Sure, if you go into the financial sector or find a startup where they don't know their arse from their elbow about software workers, you can dupe them into giving you more money. But 55k in London is a good wage for a software developer and you're definitely not looking at that if you're mid-level and working for a regular company.

Source: I've lived and worked (and continue to do so) as a software developer, technical lead and CTO in London and have been in several different sectors.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by eru on Thursday November 23, 2017 @01:12PM (#15766809)
Oh, 55k GBP is a nice salary by absolute standards, but not for software developers in London.

Yes, you can see people working for so little. But why leave money on the table?

> Sure, if you go into the financial sector or find a startup where they don't know their arse from their elbow about software workers, you can dupe them into giving you more money.

Yes, obviously. Why wouldn't you? If some sectors have more money than sense, that's an opportunity--not a problem.

(I can see that there are reasons to take a lower salary in return for a job you really like; but then you don't get to complain about low pay.)

Source: I've lived and worked in Cambridge (Cambridgeshire), Singapore, Sydney, London in various roles. Mostly in big tech and finance.

And, yes, if you look at Glassdoor you can find the numbers you cited. In my experience Glassdoor seems to be systematically lower than the numbers I get from my own experience and asking friends and coworkers.

(But I might just be living the charmed life that people live who have enough sense to negotiate salaries on job offers?)

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by literallycancer on Thursday November 23, 2017 @05:49PM (#15768333)
Care to explain how 55k GBP (60k EUR) can be a good wage, when the average new grad software developer in Germany makes like 50k EUR? And the cost of living is what, half or less than what it is in London?
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by pegasuscollins on Thursday November 23, 2017 @06:53PM (#15768642)
Less taxes in the UK means higher take home from the 55k than you would have in germany. And you have to factor in that the 55 figure is probably from a time where GBP to EUR was still 1.4:1. Consider that 55k GBP might have been ~4.5k EUR/mo take home not too long ago vs ~2.5k EUR/mo take home from 50k EUR in germany. Still shitty, but not as shitty as it seems now.

EDIT: Also, using current exchange rates, the cost of living in one of the larger cities (Berlin, Munich, etc) in germany isnt that much lower compared to London anymore.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by switch007 on Thursday November 23, 2017 @10:47AM (#15765728)
Also, benefits include:

- Final salary pension (5% contribution)

- Free travel on TfL network for employee and one family member (could be worth something like £130/mo x 2)

- Free parking at tube stations for 1 partner/family member (£5/day)

- 29+ days holiday + bank holidays

- Retail discounts

The person I know who works for TfL certainly doesn't complain.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by PakG1 on Thursday November 23, 2017 @10:24AM (#15765551)
I think the Occupy Movement is a poor comparison because that was a protest, not a strike. And I don't recall protesters in the Occupy Movement being belittled.

I agree that labourers may often get unfairly blamed when things go wrong. Corporate overlords can be also very harsh and unfair.

But it is difficult to differentiate between unions that have valid claims and unions that are just riding the gravy train with an iron grip and not adding value. These are very muddy waters, and truth is often hard to find.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by dmix on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:32PM (#15766559)
The Occupy movement was hardly universally attacked or belittled by the media. To say so is a strange interpretation of history. Maybe people are remembering the end when the movement fizzled out and critiqued for it's ultimate 'directionless' and lack of specific objectives. But Occupy was very much rah-rah'd by the press and various mainstream media venues in the early days. Or at the minimum not maligned.

The critiques that did come were almost always around the process, the act of camping out and blocking public areas, but the movement itself against Wall St was very popular during the peak of the recession.

And it was a populist movement regardless. With all the highs/lows that type of movement brings.

It's failure to bring meaningful change had little to do with the media, right-wing/tea-party, or older democrats attacking it.

The issues being protested were very complex and deeply deeply ingrained in the current US political crony economic establishment. And the democrat administration at the time did little to affect change despite this popular support, besides some token efforts. And despite the rhetoric of the democratic party being a counterbalance against the rich they largely continued (and sometimes incentivized) the status quo in the finance world. A mere temporary speed block and back to business as usual.

Which had repercussions long after including up to the latest election. It was used by the right to feed off of the mistrust people had with Hillary (and the Obama crew she inherited) with regards to their appeasement of bankers. Particularly with how the republicans hammered home her connections to Goldman Sachs (et al). Not that the right was any better in regards to cronyism, clearly, but the point is that it hit a nerve among Americans which was a legacy of cynicism and bitterness following the recession and Occupy movements.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by alexasmyths on Thursday November 23, 2017 @11:53AM (#15766261)
"Think back to the Occupy Movement."

This was not a strike, not remotely.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by srtjstjsj on Thursday November 23, 2017 @05:01PM (#15768080)
Occupy was the reverse of the strike -- it wasn't a bunch of workers refusing to work, it was a bunch of unemployed people protesting the unavailability of work.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by petre on Thursday November 23, 2017 @11:55AM (#15766274)
Bankers almost never go to jail in the US. Have you ever heard the expression "too big to jail"?
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by sliverstorm on Thursday November 23, 2017 @01:38PM (#15766980)
the media belittled Occupy as being directionless

Was it not? I called it so from the start; they had a list of something like 29 totally unrelated demands, and never managed to narrow it down.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by pnathan on Thursday November 23, 2017 @06:12PM (#15768454)
This is my recollection as well. I tried to follow it relatively closely. It was a laundry list of demands and all a bit pie in the sky. There was no specific a,b,c policy actions being requested in order to solve a single linked problem. The leaderless nature of the business made it rather toothless.

An example is http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-o... . One person posted it.

What was profoundly misunderstood by the Occupiers was that they had no leverage to negotiate with. Their sole power was being visible. That doesn't get much in the way of negotiations.

The thing that most bothered me about OWS was the disproportionate response by the police and miscellaneous conservative talking heads. Having a camp of protesters is simply something to not be bothered about except as a public health question. It's just not that big of a deal.

All that said, you can unpack the OWS complaints and produce some root causes that might be reasonably addressed. I'm given to understand that the OWS experience produced a network that in 2016 linked with Bernie Sanders' campaign, which was considerably more grounded compared to Occupy.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by pjc50 on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:28AM (#15765252)
Neoliberalism has tried to structure the economy in order to render strikes impossible by guaranteeing that they can't cause any real inconvenience.

The "sharing economy" is merely the next generation of that: there's no workplace to picket and a "flexible" supply of labour willing to cross the picket anyway.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by 09094920394314 on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:41AM (#15765319)
Which is why Foodora and Uber are seriously pissed in Germany/UK about the resident Gigsters unionizing

(source in german)

http://www.zeit.de/karriere/beruf/2017-04/crowdworking-click...

As a human who is also an employer, I take great second hand pleasure in seeing people refuse to take that shit

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by riffraff on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:44AM (#15765337)
this is happening in Italy too. There are a few "foodrider" companies where people are protesting, and Foodora has been taken to court already.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by yodsanklai on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:51AM (#15765367)
> Neoliberalism has tried to structure the economy in order to render strikes impossible by guaranteeing that they can't cause any real inconvenience.

There's also a general message carried by the medias and politicians that neoliberalism is the only possible solution. People are discouraged to go on strike (or even to vote for alternative parties) even when they see their wages and their social benefits declining. They feel that the medias may be right after all, and even if they aren't, there's not much to do anyway.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by arethuza on Thursday November 23, 2017 @10:36AM (#15765632)
That's the TINA argument - "There Is No Alternative"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_is_no_alternative

Which is why some people in the UK hate the NHS so much, purely on ideological grounds, as it is an example of a popular, avowedly socialist, organisation that does work.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by srtjstjsj on Thursday November 23, 2017 @05:02PM (#15768089)
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by arethuza on Thursday November 23, 2017 @05:49PM (#15768339)
I'm not sure what point that comment is supposed to make - as that very page describes it as a "small niche market"?
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by RKearney on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:22AM (#15765212)
Last year Verizon workers had a strike.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_strike_of_2016

It affected many of our circuit orders around that time and caused us to go with different last mile carriers.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by berberous on Thursday November 23, 2017 @11:10AM (#15765901)
The Verizon strikers would regularly blast air horns outside my home and office. Extremely annoying, and apparently legal. Made me lose my sympathy for them real quick.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by Daishiman on Friday November 24, 2017 @04:06AM (#15770202)
Now that's some lack of solidarity there.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by tboyd47 on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:14AM (#15765149)
Yes. There was a major strike of screenwriters in 2008.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007–08_Writers_Guild_of_Ame...

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by manmal on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:23AM (#15765223)
And notably, scripts from that time really are problematic (somewhat crappy dialogues, weak storylines), and I think some shows even got postponed or cancelled.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by rebuilder on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:57AM (#15765405)
What about revenue, though?
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by SiempreViernes on Thursday November 23, 2017 @10:20AM (#15765528)
Famously one of the Michel Bay transformers movies are from that time... honestly I think the strike was too short to make a systematic shift, movie revenues are as a rule highly variable from film to film but the market average I suspect moves relatively slowly.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by erikb on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:16AM (#15765170)
"lately"

That's almost a decade ago.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by dkersten on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:38AM (#15765301)
How about the video game voice acting strike?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016%E2%80%9317_video_game_voi...

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by tboyd47 on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:26AM (#15765241)
Good point!
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by jboynyc on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:39AM (#15765309)
A few others from the past decade which were covered by the country's few remaining serious labor journalists. Some were also written about in books [1] or documented in film [2].

2008: Puerto Rico teachers strike.

2008: Stella D'Oro strike.

2011: Occupy Oakland and unions shut down the port following a call for a general strike.

2012: Chicago teachers strike.

2012: Republic Windows and Doors strike and occupation.

2013: Fast food workers strike in 58 U.S. cities.

There's an exciting younger generation of labor journalists, and a good way to keep tabs on what they are covering is through Dissent's podcast Belabored (feed at [3]).

[1]: https://www.versobooks.com/books/1569-strike-for-america

[2]: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1981035/

[3]: https://www.dissentmagazine.org/feed/belabored

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by sandworm101 on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:27AM (#15765244)
A previous strike closer to 2000 was the birth of "reality television". The original Survivor was pitched on the basis of its immunity to a looming writers strike.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by srtjstjsj on Thursday November 23, 2017 @05:06PM (#15768108)
Unions: We demand high pay for high-quality work!

Management: We don't want high-quality work. Bye.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by ericpearl on Thursday November 23, 2017 @10:39PM (#15769265)
That strike led to the rise of reality TV. Which led to some people becoming reality TV celebrities. Which led to one of them running for president of the U.S.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by tcbawo on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:21AM (#15765208)
It seems that the only unions with enough clout to strike are public workers. I've seen teachers strike or threaten to strike from to time. In the private sector, the potential win isn't worth the risk, since long term benefits are mostly off the table already.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by petre on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:02PM (#15766335)
Depends. Also workers in huge organizations like GM, Amazon etc. In the UK Amazon makes deliveries using contractors who barely have time to eat or go to the toilet. They can't go on strike since they're not employees.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by duiker101 on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:23AM (#15765224)
Strikes are a pretty common thing in Italy. Especially in public sectors(transport, schools etc...)

Hell, when I was in high school even students had strikes.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by NikolaeVarius on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:14AM (#15765153)
Define major. Spectrum workers are striking regularly in NYC
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by rocco on Thursday November 23, 2017 @10:01AM (#15765432)
Well, TBH in italy we have too much strikes. This is not the case but in public transportation is a common thing that happens recurrently only mondays or fridays. The motivitaion are pages of nonsense printed to just justify long weekends.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by ken on Thursday November 23, 2017 @03:15PM (#15767535)
Living in Boeing's backyard, I regularly (if not frequently) hear about machinist strikes. It looks like the last big one was 2008: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_machinists_strike_of_20...

Teacher strikes are also fairly common. Seattle in 2015, and Tacoma in 2011, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_Teachers_Strike_2011

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by dbg31415 on Thursday November 23, 2017 @05:02PM (#15768082)
Teacher strikes count? You hear about them sometimes. Not very common though.

* Seattle Teachers Go on First Systemwide Strike in 30 Years After Talks Collapse - The New York Times || https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/10/us/seattle-teachers-go-on...

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by coldtea on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:21AM (#15765207)
Teachers in Chicago and fast-food workers comes to mind -- in the last 5-10 years.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by brianwawok on Thursday November 23, 2017 @05:48PM (#15768327)
Chicago public schools are always on the verge..
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by eriken on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:24AM (#15765230)
This happens way more in the south of europe than in the north, where unions realize that competitiveness trumps wages.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by dullgiulio on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:34AM (#15765284)
This needs to be backed up by data. Depends on how politics work between workers and companies. In Italy there is no system like the German Work Council inside companies, thus strikes happen more often (the negotiations are sometimes more confrontational.) But I wouldn't generalize from this.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by dsacco on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:29AM (#15765255)
> where unions realize that competitiveness trumps wages.

It seems like you’re sneaking an assertion in there. Can you clarify your point a bit? What is the relationship between competition and wages, and why is one better than the other for unions?

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by eriken on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:40AM (#15765310)
Well if a company cannot compete because wages are too high then the company goes under and jobs are gone.

Germany is a good example of this, they have a ton of unions and lots of production but the unions understand that competition is key to survival so there are very few strikes.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by yardie on Thursday November 23, 2017 @10:02AM (#15765437)
Germany has a modern welfare system. When demand goes down, salaries go down. So the state welfare system makes up the difference.

German unions also have a seat at the board. Unlike most board run companies a decision isn't made without input from the union. So yes, there few strikes in Germany because labor and management actually behave like adults.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by petre on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:09PM (#15766388)
I wonder where the money for the difference comes from? Taxes. Also German economy is pretty solid since they're a net exporter at the expense of the rest of the EU. This modern welfare system wouldn't work in France, let alone Southern Europe.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by yardie on Thursday November 23, 2017 @02:29PM (#15767280)
Yes it comes from taxes, where else. There is no reason German union rules wouldn't work elsewhere. But I believe other companies simply do not want it. They want to delegate to the workers what they want with little feedback. German companies take worker feedback into the cost and rate of production. Therefor, no one is surprised. Workers no what they are expected to produce and management knows what to expect from labor.

This is why Walmart has utterly failed to expand into Germany. They thought they could take their abusive worker policies into Germany and when that didn't work they pulled out.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by bonzini on Thursday November 23, 2017 @03:41PM (#15767669)
Italy has the same mechanism (it's called Cassa integrazione guadagni). It is sometimes abused for companies that ought to have gone bankrupt decades ago, but Italy has decent welfare policies and worker rights policies, especially compared to the US.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by icebraining on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:55AM (#15765396)
I live in Southern Europe, and our Volkswagen factory also has had much fewer strikes or other union protests, with workers voluntarily accepting temporary wage cuts and such.

I suggest you look into the differences in the management of companies of those countries rather than the unions.

Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by pjc50 on Thursday November 23, 2017 @10:47AM (#15765730)
The German works-council system is exceptional, though, and it's a key part of making that work. There has to be trust in the other direction. Trust that accepting a competitive pay deal won't just immediately result in more executive pay, payouts to shareholders, or the factory being closed anyway.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by distances on Thursday November 23, 2017 @11:15AM (#15765942)
It's not directly comparable, as in Germany the workers have much more power in companies to start with. You need fewer strikes if your representatives in the company board can affect the decisions before they are announced.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by ginko on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:34AM (#15765282)
Our office cantina here in Norway was closed for a good 2 months or so last year because of a striker of the restaurant and hotel worker's union.
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by didsomeonesay on Thursday November 23, 2017 @09:30AM (#15765263)
Denmark and Norway beg to differ...
Re:Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses s... by petre on Thursday November 23, 2017 @12:04PM (#15766352)
It happens in France all the time, mostly in the public sector.