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Re:Tesla Semi by aerovistae on Friday November 17, 2017 @01:33AM (#15719568)
Call me a fanboy, but something tells me that the guy who built a revolutionary space program from scratch while successfully running a revolutionary auto company, probably has some ability to think things through pretty comprehensively from all angles and plan effectively for what's needed.

Do you think you've just pointed out something that never occurred to him? Do you think if you could share your comments with him, he would stop and stare at you blankly and say "Shit. You're right."

You haven't just deflated the plan behind this entire, multi-year undertaking with your 5-minute analysis, as if you know more than all the engineers working at Tesla. The tone you're taking is just ridiculous.

Re:Tesla Semi by deadmetheny on Friday November 17, 2017 @10:40AM (#15722812)
You're a fanboy. Being good in one industry doesn't mean you can plan for entire other industries and magically determine their domain knowledge or change the way that industry does its business.

I generally like what Musk is doing and think that Tesla is doing pretty great work, but he's not perfect and the pain points people are discussing in these threads are in no way unfounded. It's better to listen to the feedback and concerns in order to improve, rather than just fellating God-Engineer Musk and proclaiming his infallibility.

Re:Tesla Semi by hilbertseries on Friday November 17, 2017 @02:01AM (#15719747)
>think things through pretty comprehensively from all angles and plan effectively for what's needed.

Is that why model 3 production is going so well?

Re:Tesla Semi by aerovistae on Friday November 17, 2017 @03:14AM (#15720129)
Pretty sure Model 3 production is going amazingly well, yeah. Astoundingly well. But the media's portrayal of it has people convinced otherwise.

Let's try this perspective instead:

"Decade-old electric car company moves up plan for mass production of new affordable long-range sedan by 2 years"

And then ask ourselves, after moving it up by 2 years, does a 3-month delay mean "things are going badly"?

If I say I'm going to leap 500 feet, and then I leap 450 feet, do you say I failed?

Re:Tesla Semi by CPLX on Friday November 17, 2017 @08:44AM (#15721866)
> If I say I'm going to leap 500 feet, and then I leap 450 feet, do you say I failed?

Yes, that's what the word failed means.

Re:Tesla Semi by drusepth on Friday November 17, 2017 @09:59AM (#15722400)
Considering the long jump record is 30ft, I'd say he technically failed his lofty goal, but was still more successful at jumping than anyone else.

I think that's the point the OP above is trying to get at.

Re:Tesla Semi by lafar6502 on Saturday November 18, 2017 @01:34PM (#15730073)
and if your leap is 1 foot instead?
Re:Tesla Semi by wils1245 on Friday November 17, 2017 @12:19PM (#15723891)
If I owe you $500, and I give you $450, does that mean I paid back the loan?

The consequence of not living up to an expectation depends on what's riding on that expectation. For a company trying to live up to a valuation higher than companies producing orders of magnitude more vehicles, I think it matters.

Re:Tesla Semi by baq on Friday November 17, 2017 @03:53AM (#15720311)
you over-promised and under-delivered, in that sense you failed.

does it matter though?

Re:Tesla Semi by _Codemonkeyism on Friday November 17, 2017 @04:57AM (#15720634)
I'd say someone who buys robots and operates them manually by men and claims "air resistance" is the biggest challenge in robotics because they should move so fast you can't see them, looks to me as not very sophisticated. But I don't operate robots.
Re:Tesla Semi by _Codemonkeyism on Saturday November 18, 2017 @04:21AM (#15728369)
"It's like if you can see the robot move, it's too slow. We should be caring about air friction like things moving so fast. You should need a strobe light to see it"

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4122890-tesla-approaches-te...

Re:Tesla Semi by Aron on Sunday November 19, 2017 @02:47AM (#15732791)
He wasn't saying that air resistance is currently a problem. The current problem is that the robots don't move fast enough for air resistance to be a problem. He's basically pushing the question 'Going faster is obviously good. What happens if we go really really fast?'
Re:Tesla Semi by sumedh on Friday November 17, 2017 @06:58AM (#15721275)
> Is that why model 3 production is going so well?

I think OP is talking about the big picture, there will always be issues like the on with the production.

Re:Tesla Semi by colordrops on Friday November 17, 2017 @02:06AM (#15719769)
I've seen dozens of them around LA. Give it a few months and if it doesn't ramp then there might be a problem.
Re:Tesla Semi by petepete on Friday November 17, 2017 @07:15AM (#15721370)
No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.
Re:Tesla Semi by _Codemonkeyism on Friday November 17, 2017 @04:55AM (#15720623)
I call you a fanboy.
Re:Tesla Semi by kodis on Friday November 17, 2017 @10:55AM (#15722983)
Additionally, these trucks come with a one million mile warranty. I don't know how many millions of miles a conventional truck is expected to last, but with a Tesla truck, the maintenance costs should be fairly low, at least the first million miles.
Re:Tesla Semi by kingkawn on Friday November 17, 2017 @05:19AM (#15720737)
You’re a fanboy
Re:Tesla Semi by lafar6502 on Saturday November 18, 2017 @01:32PM (#15730060)
its a cult of one man and a pity that the man in question still wants to take all the credit i wonder who will take the blame when time comes
Re:Tesla Semi by akhatri_aus on Friday November 17, 2017 @02:42AM (#15719942)
It wasn't really from scratch though was it, he hired out people who had already worked with space projects. None of the tech is really new (yet). We used to have the same types of rockets in the past.

Amongst Model 3 fiasco Solarcity too currently has issues.

Re:Tesla Semi by thachmai on Friday November 17, 2017 @03:29AM (#15720212)
It's incredible how you trivialize SpaceX achievements. I get it that you probably hate Elon Musk for whatever reason. But you should really calibrate your bias filter.
Re:Tesla Semi by akhatri_aus on Friday November 17, 2017 @04:00AM (#15720342)
I love some of his other achievements with Tesla and with solar roofing tiles, but SpaceX has a lot of hype surrounding it.
Re:Tesla Semi by mft_ on Friday November 17, 2017 @09:47AM (#15722311)
I think you've got this totally back-to-front.

Tesla makes cars. We've known how to make cars for a while now - even electric cars. What was critical for Tesla was the vision: to see that we were approaching a tipping point where battery technology and cost would make a fully- (and only-) electric car feasible, and the strength of mind and purpose to ignore and/or out-think peoples' legacy objections and misgivings - e.g. with the Supercharger network. There are some Musk-ian details that are advances, such as the single integrated computer system, but that's a relatively small part of the whole.

In contrast, yes, SpaceX (just!) makes rockets, and yes, we've known how to make rockets for a long time. But they have done some things that the rest of the rocket industry haven't even got close to. Firstly, they've revolutionised the process and cost of producing a rocket in this class, by insourcing so much of it, and rethinking the necessary components and technology. Secondly, they've taken the concept of re-use and made it orders of magnitude cheaper (versus, what, the Shuttle?) than before, to the extent that it has/will completely turn the industry on its head. And the techniques and technology they've pioneered to facilitate this --not least the ability to land a 70m rocket upright on a robot barge floating out at sea-- are genuinely, truly revolutionary.

Re:Tesla Semi by nickik on Friday November 17, 2017 @04:37AM (#15720540)
You are totally wrong about SpaceX. SpaceX is totally revolutionary and they have already achieved a huge amount of remarkable stuff that most people did not think was possible.

Lots of stuff has been test or tried before, but bringing things from idea to production ready with the efficiency required and cheap production is fantastically impressive.

You can claim 'it is not basic research' or whatever, but the reality is that they are pushing the envelop on so many topics at the same time that they are leafing all competition in the dust.

Re:Tesla Semi by JulianMorrison on Friday November 17, 2017 @04:22AM (#15720456)
Private spaceflight has a long history of pretty computer graphics, small scale prototypes and broke millionaires. Musk made it happen, and made it pay. Also, nobody at all before them, and nobody else even now can land the boosters on orbital-class spacecraft intact.
Re:Tesla Semi by aerovistae on Friday November 17, 2017 @03:10AM (#15720093)
"None of the tech is really new"? Lol? Could you tell me about the old re-usable rockets from before?
Re:Tesla Semi by stuartloxton on Friday November 17, 2017 @03:45AM (#15720266)
This isn't an agreement with the parents comment about Tesla but re-usable rockets weren't invented by SpaceX. The idea existed for a while and various projects got to different stages. Including a functional 'McDonnell_Douglas_DC-X'.

The project got taken over by NASA and the budget cut before being axed. You really do sound a bit too fanatical and should probably question more instead of accepting companies as entirely revolutionary.

Re:Tesla Semi by mortehu on Friday November 17, 2017 @10:13AM (#15722563)
To be clear, the DC-X was not capable of reaching orbital velocity.
Re:Tesla Semi by aerovistae on Friday November 17, 2017 @04:52AM (#15720609)
"The idea existed for awhile"

Yep, SpaceX has barely innovated at all. Their contributions to space flight are not really of note.

Re:Tesla Semi by owlmirror on Friday November 17, 2017 @03:00AM (#15720043)
The entire reusability thing was not really a thing before spacex
Re:Tesla Semi by bduerst on Friday November 17, 2017 @12:49PM (#15724180)
Wasn't the space shuttle and it's SRBs reusable?
Re:Tesla Semi by eric_the_read on Friday November 17, 2017 @01:48PM (#15724805)
In the sense that both were effectively rebuilt from almost-but-not-quite-scratch for each launch, yes.
Re:Tesla Semi by bduerst on Friday November 17, 2017 @05:37PM (#15726568)
Despite claims about the future, doesn't SpaceX also refurbish their SRBs between flights?
Re:Tesla Semi by greglindahl on Friday November 17, 2017 @08:17PM (#15727262)
SpaceX's rockets are all-liquid fueled. SRB = solid rocket booster.
Re:Tesla Semi by bduerst on Saturday November 18, 2017 @06:00AM (#15728559)
So they don't refurbish the liquid fuel engines?
Re:Tesla Semi by greglindahl on Saturday November 18, 2017 @12:52PM (#15729931)
Not significantly. And they've re-flown a bunch of them.
Re:Tesla Semi by akhatri_aus on Friday November 17, 2017 @03:51AM (#15720296)
There was already a working program that had their funding axed: Here's a video from 1995: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv9n9Casp1o. There were others too.
Re:Tesla Semi by wellboy on Friday November 17, 2017 @04:49AM (#15720595)
Yes, because it is incredibly hard to bring reusable rockets from concept to full execution.

The idea has been arouns for a long time and there have ben dozens of attempts of course, just as flying cars, autonomous cars, real A.I, space elevators.

Concept an execution are vastly different animals, it is at least 1000 times more difficult to achieve resuable rockets than to have the idea and at least 100 times more difficult than to try it.

Re:Tesla Semi by JulianMorrison on Friday November 17, 2017 @11:56AM (#15723668)
It really isn't a working program if it's never going to have enough payload capacity to lift its own fuel to orbit. It's a shiny prototype of computer controlled autonomous stabilized flight, like SpaceX Grasshopper. But that's about it.
Re:Tesla Semi by aerovistae on Friday November 17, 2017 @03:57AM (#15720327)
To answer your deleted question, there would be no point in listing their achievements for you because you're obviously determined to ignore them, and having them listed for you won't change that.