News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by onion2k on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @12:35PM (#15654680)
Spend, spend, spend: shop till you drop mentality.

If you think malls are only about consumerism then you've misunderstood a big part of their appeal for a lot of people. Young people and groups of friends don't go to the mall on their own. Malls merge consumerism with social activity - they're for people who enjoy shopping with their friends.

If that's not you then fair enough, but don't disparage malls simply because they don't appeal to you. If they disappear society will be worse for many, many people.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by sanderjd on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @12:43PM (#15654797)
I'm not a sociologist, but my feeling is that malls are just a last resort place for young people to socialize that is unstructured and free of charge. That is: there isn't really anywhere else to go be with your friends without paying for the privilege, that isn't organized by adults (like school sports or church groups for instance). When I was growing up, we had the mall and we had parking lots, and the latter was only for the "bad kids". I get the sense that kids nowadays just hang out with each other online more as a replacement.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by gbacon on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:36PM (#15655457)
A recent video called “Why The Kids Need Stranger Things”[0] made exactly this point about the nostalgia of the Netflix series and how malls were a symbol of free-range kids[1]. Circumstances have changed so much that the creators assert Stranger Things could not be set in the present day.

[0]: https://youtu.be/qHl-BQXYg3s

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-range_parenting

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by humanrebar on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @06:20PM (#15658104)
> ...Stranger Things could not be set in the present day.

Also, lots of plot points are ruined if people can just text each other, take photos, or record video as needed.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by xkcd-sucks on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @11:44PM (#15659921)
And, ubiquitous rectangles of light with all actors' attention directed thereto, makes for really bad cinematography
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by aidenn0 on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @04:40PM (#15657354)
SPOILER WARNING: stranger things season 1

The reason why free range parenting has gone down so much can be seen in the series.

There was a believable scene in which one kid bullied another into taking an almost certainly fatal jump into the quarry, and was only saved by paranormal means.

A world in which more free-range parenting is the norm inherently implies a world in which kids more often pay the consequences of their actions, which can be death or maiming.

We, as a society, do not seem to have a stomach for this, to the point where free-range parenting has been equated with neglect.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by flukus on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @06:37PM (#15658241)
> There was a believable scene in which one kid bullied another into taking an almost certainly fatal jump into the quarry, and was only saved by paranormal means.

I watched it last night so it's fresh in my mind. It was paranormal events that setup this scene and made the bully go to such extremes to begin with.

It was also one of the worst, least believable scenes in the series. The fact that he was so willing to jump, the threats the bully was giving, etc. It was just weak writing in an attempt to create a dramatic reunion. When your 11 years old it takes some time to build up the courage to make a safe jump from something like a bridge, let alone a possible fatal jump.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by aidenn0 on Thursday November 09, 2017 @02:39PM (#15665245)
It was believable to me because they had shown adults talking about people that had bragged to have jumped from there. I remember as a kid thinking that everything others bragged about was true and I was just lame. I totally see him thinking it would be no more dangerous than jumping from a bridge, just a bit scarier.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by fsloth on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @02:44PM (#15656199)
That's so weird. We in northern europe have no problem in letting our kids roam (Finland, but I presume the situation is similar in at least scandinavia).
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by jacobolus on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @04:16PM (#15657131)
I would guess that even in northern Europe there has probably been a substantial reduction of kids’ roaming distance and time spent unsupervised compared to 2 or 3 generations ago. This seems to be a worldwide trend (if not to the same extent in every place).

In the US one of the big problems is a culture of legal liability for every possible thing, and a general culture of fearfulness, excuse-making, and ass-covering instead of allowing moderate informed risks and dealing responsibly with the consequences. If you have too steep a slide, some kid is going to fall off and the parents will sue and bankrupt your town. If you let kids ride the bus by themselves, 1 kid in a million is going to get kidnapped and the parents will sue. Etc.

But there are surely other contributing factors: more families with 2 working parents (and more single parents) and in general less adults “hanging out” with an eye on their neighborhoods, a general degradation of community relationships and civic institutions, smaller family sizes (it’s much easier to chaperone 1 kid than 6), more middle-class angst about maximizing children’s future earning potential, more media attention on rare tragedies, communication improvements leading to less spontaneous social gatherings and more virtual socialization, increasing reliance on car transport and inaccessibility of unsupervised play spaces (especially undeveloped land), etc.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by taneq on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @05:58PM (#15657954)
> more media attention on rare tragedies

I think this is a big one, and not just rare tragedies but distant ones. 40 years ago you heard about the bad things in your village, now the 24 hour news cycle feeds a constant stream of fear from all over the world.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by apexalpha on Thursday November 09, 2017 @03:27AM (#15660772)
>This seems to be a worldwide trend

Yes there is a trend to 'protect' kids from everything. But in my country there is a clear counter-culture advocating agianst what they call 'rubber stone' society where everything is done to avoid possible danger.

There are now ads running on TV saying 'let boys be boys', let them climb trees, go out and explore etc...

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by dragonwriter on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @04:19PM (#15657158)
We in the US didn't a few decades ago, either. Politicians and the media (with different motivations) deliberately creating false impressions of increasing risks mostly did that in.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by ForRealsies on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @03:48PM (#15656851)
What is a homogeneous culture, Trebek.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by gorbachev on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @05:38PM (#15657819)
I grew up in them Scandinavian countries, and my brother and I often spent the entire weekend outside out of sight from my parents. My earliest memory of that is when I was 7 years old.

I now live in the US and have kids about the same age.

The issue is not homogeneous culture or any other thing people with no brains come up with, but traffic density, at least in my case.

Where I used to live we could roam without having to cross dangerous streets. Where I live now, there's traffic everywhere and cars don't give a shit about people on foot, so my kids do not roam.

When I was a kid, we used to have vast areas to play safely. I just looked on Google Maps and the cross-country ski route we used to regularly take on weekends is 4 miles long. We had to cross ONE street. I used to bike about 10 miles one way, by myself, when I was a little older and keep on bike lanes the entire trip.

We also used to have large play areas in the backyard of every home I ever had. The bigger ones were the size of a typical New York borough block. We didn't have to leave our homes to get to a playground, or a park...we had one right outside of our door.

Obviously this sort of thing is easier to do / plan for when the entire country has less people than the city of New York.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by CalRobert on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @06:11PM (#15658047)
My single greatest fear for letting my kid walk free when she's old enough to is that she'll be killed by a driver. This is compounded by the fact that as long as you say "Sorry mate didn't see you" it's OK to kill people with your car

(weird really - can you do that for killing people by any other means?)

My wife and I have semi-seriously considered moving to northern Scandinavia for both this reason and its comparative likelihood of remaining a decent (well, bearable, if only just) place to live in a clathrate-gun scenario.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by gorbachev on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @10:10PM (#15659511)
That's what really gets me.

There was a case not far from where I live where a driver turning right mowed down a 4-year-old child walking with his grandmother on a CROSSWALK. He wasn't running or anything like that, just crossing the street. The child died. They didn't even charge the driver. Fucking ridiculous. It was 100% the driver's fault. New York Times published an article written by the child's mother who questioned the logic of first of all call it an accident and second of all how the driver wasn't charged with anything, not even reckless driving.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by CalRobert on Thursday November 09, 2017 @01:24AM (#15660302)
I don't know how to change the mindset. A kid in san diego was killed in a bike lane while I lived there and everyone poured sympathy on the DRIVER, ffs, and blamed the kid for being there. It makes one weep, especially because people (Americans, at least) accept it.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by telchar on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @04:17PM (#15657136)
Forgive me, but it seems that you're taking a common argument (X policy that works in Scandinavia won't work in the US because the US isn't homogeneous) and extending it to some sort of xenophobic dog-whistle (i.e. kids in the US can't roam because the US isn't homogeneous). Is there a more charitable way to interpret your comment?
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by CalRobert on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @06:12PM (#15658051)
The US is pretty homogeneously hostile to walking, so there's that...
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by dragonwriter on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @04:20PM (#15657164)
The US hasn't become substantially less homogenous in the last few decades, so that's not it.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by kiliantics on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @04:20PM (#15657168)
Definitely an interesting point that children have less freedom today. But it's a bit of a stretch to say that this is what's causing the "safe space mentality". The narrator says the good old days of free range parenting led children to be more prone to questioning authority, which is healthy. If anything, you could argue that young people's assertion of their right to "safe spaces" is a form of rebellion in itself.

The video comes from FEE though, so it's obviously got a political bias behind it that explains it's opposition to safe spaces. People on the more socially conservative end of the spectrum don't seem to understand safe spaces and how they are actually a rejection of authority, rather than an appeal to authority. The notion of authority used is simply more subtle.

Some marginalised groups have made a very valid claim that there is a built-in hierarchy in many social norms that constitute acceptable behaviour in mainstream society. And that they tend to be on the shittier end of the deal in that hierarchy. Therefore, rather than acquiesce to the ordinary way of doing things and just accepting the negative effects of living in a world that doesn't value them as it does others, they have decided to carve out a space where they can assert their own version of what should be culturally acceptable. And they ask that others respect their desire for such a space and not enter it without also changing their behaviour and rejecting the toxic standard practices.

It's quite simple, it's like the cultural equivalent of libertarians trying to carve out a piece of land where they can keep the government out and live in their hyper-capitalist utopias. It's inherently anti-authoritarian. Anyone who goes into a safe space is voluntarily choosing to abide by its standards, no one is forcing them to.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by taneq on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @04:54PM (#15657488)
I don't think it's "young people" in general that want 'safe spaces', just the very vocal prog-left fringe.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by Hextinium on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @03:36PM (#15656716)
As a person that just entered college and out of that time period, mall didnt do it for me because they are barren of things to do. There is nothing but things to buy and nothing of actual interest. I would rather go to a friends house and play games or watch a move at the theater than go to a mall because there is nothing there. The times when I went to a mall was because there was an arcade there that we would hang out at but that was the only point of interest. Other than that we would go elsewhere.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by sanderjd on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @03:47PM (#15656842)
Yeah I should have used past tense. I don't think malls are cutting it now at all. But the "thing to do" there when I was young was to just with your friends without needing to spend any money, without any parents around, and in a busy enough place that you could get lost in the shuffle. Hanging out at a friend's house involves parents and going to the movies is expensive.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by astura on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:25PM (#15655314)
How young?

Many malls have banned people under 18 unless accompanied by a parent or guardian. This practice started around 10 years ago.

Just in case anyone doubts me: http://www.parenting.com/news-break/why-your-teen-getting-ba...

>Up to 80 malls across the United States enforce a curfew or escort policy for teenagers

I was still looking young in 2008 despite being well into my 20s and that's when I got IDed at a mall entrance. I was so annoyed/insulted by it I never went back to that mall every again. I can understand getting IDed at a bar, but not at a friggin mall.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by greeneggs on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @03:00PM (#15656395)
> Up to 80 malls across the United States enforce a curfew or escort policy for teenagers

If you follow the link, the more accurate quote is [1]

> Close to 80 malls in the U.S. have some type of curfew or escort policy regarding teenagers

Having a policy is different from enforcing it, and a curfew policy is quite different from an escort policy, so who knows what this really means?

Time writes, citing Credit Suisse, that there are about 1100 malls in the US today [2], so this might still be fairly rare.

[1] https://www.yahoo.com/news/teens-are-getting-banned-from-mal... [2] http://time.com/4865957/death-and-life-shopping-mall/

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by BadCookie on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @02:43PM (#15656189)
Your story reminded me of when I went on a cruise for my honeymoon. There was a cruise employee who gave my new husband and me a stern warning about how we should not be on the cruise without our parents if we were under 18. (We were in our mid-20s.) So much of society today wants to keep people dependent on their parents forever, it seems.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by wahern on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @03:56PM (#15656934)
I think it's more the case that roving gangs of teenagers put adults on edge. And for good reason. When you put 5 or 10 of the most conscientious teenagers together, collectively they're like a bull in a china shop.

Adults aren't much better, but they're much less energetic unless they've been drinking.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by lithos on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:45PM (#15655575)
I learned to hate malls in the same way.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by itswhateverman2 on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @12:44PM (#15654804)
I think you misunderstand. Malls only end up as a social gathering spot when there's nowhere else to go. And even then, that only really appeals to teenagers who have nothing else to do. A mall would never be preferable to what was mentioned above, a downtown with brick paths and quality scenery/stores, etc.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by irrational on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:47PM (#15655593)
Where I live it rains for 9 months out of the year (and is very hot 2 of the other months - we maybe get 1 month of nice outdoor weather a year). I'd much prefer an enclosed space. Though, let's be honest, I'd really prefer someone to just drop my purchases off at my doorstep so I don't have to deal with the weather at all.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by buttersb on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @02:37PM (#15656121)
We are only thinking of malls in the classic context.

For the last 10+ years many "malls" have been outdoor "areas" with shops, beautified walking paths, communal spaces, grocery stores, movie theaters, etc. Essentially miniature downtowns.

We have both these and the classic style mall here. Only 2 or 3 classic malls any more. However, they are all VERY successful. There were 7-8 and I've watched many die, or be taken over by distribution hubs, data centers (think big non-customer facing building)

We've had about 3-4 outdoor malls developed in the last 10 years. All are going strong, albeit they are new.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by heimidal on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:10PM (#15655136)
Never? I certainly prefer a mall over a nice outdoor space (which I have available to me) when it’s freezing outside with a sheen of ice covering everything.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by itswhateverman2 on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:13PM (#15655172)
Sure, it's convenient when the weather is bad. That still doesn't make malls a staple of social activity, which was the point I was arguing against.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by heimidal on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:34PM (#15655419)
In some parts of the US, the weather is bad for half of the year. In those places, malls are bustling with activity every weekend.

I think this is a regional thing; in warmer climates, outdoor shopping centers with community-centric areas have been all the rage for years.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by rangersanger on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @04:48PM (#15657421)
In those places some malls are bustling with activity every weekend, others are shuttering. One of the most popular malls in Milwaukee, Wisconsin is in fact an outdoor "town center," a nomenclature I take issue with. https://www.bayshoretowncenter.com/
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by brandonmenc on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:06PM (#15655091)
> A mall would never be preferable to what was mentioned above, a downtown with brick paths and quality scenery/stores, etc.

Sounds great, until it snows.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by foobarian on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @02:29PM (#15656054)
Well nobody said the alternative has to be outdoors, that's just the OP. It could be a community center with arcades and playgrounds and what not.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by s73ver_ on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:23PM (#15655290)
A mall would be 10x preferable to that stuff when it's -10 degrees out.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by rangersanger on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @03:07PM (#15656454)
The sad reality is that much of America, particularly suburban America but even in cities, public gathering places are nearly non-existent. The shopping mall (or more recently, lifestyle center, Festival Marketplaces, etc) is the closest thing many have to the town square or decently appointed public park.

However, the mall isn't a public space and things a healthy society allows for - protest, hand holding, being different looking, aren't necessarily allowed in a mall.

Regardless if a mall is preferable in 100 degree heat or -10 degree cold, those other spaces are important for other reasons.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by craftyguy on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @12:41PM (#15654757)
> Young people and groups of friends don't go to the mall on their own. Malls merge consumerism with social activity - they're for people who enjoy shopping with their friends.

I don't think this has been true, at least in the US, since the 1990s.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by logfromblammo on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:18PM (#15655224)
Especially since a lot of malls intentionally made themselves unfriendly to students in high school and college in order to cater more to young families and affluent people.

They are hoist on their own petard, because as it turns out, the young families chose the big box stores to save money, and the affluent people are not numerous enough or consumerist enough to support more than one mall in their town. That mall gets the Brookstones and Sephoras and Victoria's Secrets and the Apple Stores. The other malls are full of basically nothing but cell phone vendor kiosks and a food court, and they die.

Malls made an intentional decision to push shopping over social activity, and killed their appeal, because you can shop from anywhere by using your phone, and 99% of what you want comes from a combination of your grocery store, big box store (possibly the same as your grocery store), and online shopping. There is now no reason whatsoever to physically travel to any mall in the US. They have only lame chain restaurants, the Borders/Waldenbooks has been closed for decades, the good music store closed and only the corporate sellout store remains, the Radio Shack is gone, Sears left, JCPenney is kaput, but you have plenty of stores that sell "fashion" to teen girls, including the ubiquitous Express, Justice, Forever 21, and Hot Topic. So the mall is where your mom takes you when the clothes at Wal-Mart, Target, or Kohl's aren't good enough any more.

I think if malls had gone the other direction, perhaps by adding mid-size under-21 live music venues as anchors, they would not be falling apart today.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by ghaff on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @04:21PM (#15657179)
You touch on one of the key points toward the end. Many of the traditional anchor stores are dead or dying and there are very few newer candidates healthy enough to take their place.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by crankylinuxuser on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:11PM (#15655154)
At our local mall, there's a sign warning that under 18 aren't allowed without adults.

They also removed much of what would attract teens and that age group. And many of the "older person stores" are ridiculously priced. Amazon, Walmart online, Aliexpress, and others are cheaper.

Malls are full of expensive stuff, not very good stuff, and caters to nobody in particular.

I know for us, it's because "Payless Shoes" that has cheap size 15's is the only reason why. So we beeline in, and out.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by jsight on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:24PM (#15655296)
I agree. It feels like a lot of malls have basically optimized themselves for a customer base that is not really sustainable.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by VLM on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @03:01PM (#15656406)
Mall security is what is unsustainable. I'm old by HN standards gen-X and I grew up with mall security hating me. Now mall security has under 18 kids arrested, which is worse. The point is for decades of formative years "the mall is that place where they hate me because of who I am". So its understandable that now that I'm in their prime demographic (older, financially well off) that I have no interest in going there.

You'd have to be older than gen-x to remember malls favorably as a teen. The place to socialize is/was high school sports in (ahem, under) the stands, and darkly lit movie theaters. Since the 80s, which is a long time ago, trying to hang out at the mall will get you kicked out by rentacops or arrested.

Another problem is the dead mall death spiral has no backwards movement, can only ratchet toward death. The closest mall to me went 95% womens clothing stores a long time ago and is now on the march toward having its sixth athletic shoe store. Its a one way path to foreclosure, like a diode action only moving one way. I don't buy womens clothes, so other than taking my wife or daughter there, its already dead to me...

Its interesting that when I was a kid the mall provided the novelty of everything under one roof. Then big box stores happened and there is no appeal to lots of little box stores under one roof when I can just go to Target or Walmart. Walmart today is the early 80s mall of my youth.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by pm90 on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @03:20PM (#15656544)
I think you make a lot of good points. Not having grown up in the US, I don't have an immediate aversion towards malls. And as a guy who loves fashion, malls offer me a way to checkout a whole bunch of different styles, which is worth the slightly higher prices (at least for me anyways). Besides, they do have sales when the prices are somewhat better.

But even I have embraced online stores. Every major fashion brand has an online store, and its just much too convenient to order online rather than have to drive to a mall etc.etc. I would rather, read a book or hang out with friends over a beer.

Which brings me to an excellent observation you made: most stores in malls are reorienting to serve more women. I think women love the social aspects of shopping (i.e. trying out new clothes with friends and getting their opinions) as much as the actual shopping itself, which is probably why many women continue to go to malls.

I think Malls are missing out on some great opportunities to be entertainment centers. They get the footfall; instead of orienting towards selling shit, they should be trying to provide some kind of experience.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by VLM on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @03:43PM (#15656801)
"provide some kind of experience"

There's the food court.

Also see the constraint on "mom is stuck with the kids" to this day even in 2017 etc. So a movie theater is a hard sell if mom has the baby in the stroller.

Of course going to the mall implies having money and a car, which means the library is accessible, so having story time at the mall merely replicates a service that's barely getting by somewhere else; better off just driving to the library or whatever rather than imitating it and splitting the participants such that possibly neither can be a success.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by crankylinuxuser on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:43PM (#15655544)
Indeed. I know it's changed a ton since I grew up in the '80s.

I remember Spaceport and Aladin's castle. .25$ arcades, and $1 gave 5 tokens. You could play for hours just on $5. And they allowed kids, competitions, and all sorts of things. I'd go hang out while my parents were shopping, and just chill.

There also used to be, in quite a lot of the malls, a jungle gym or playground area. They'd be full of kids, and you could just chill and hang out, except for free. But there were usually age limits so you didn't hurt little ones. And around this was always a common area. Lots of tables, food places, coffee shop or 2.

Clubs and nonprofits would meet here - it was a huge commons area. I remember fondly playing chess on chess club nights. Played some pretty awesome pros there.

And the companies there.. You had Sears, Estee Lauder, Nordstrom, and all those big name box stores. And then you'd have all sorts of smaller stores scattered, with rarely ever any room left over (1-2 empty plots due to eventual turnover). But there was something for everyone. Maybe it was a candy store, or a toy store, or specialty thing.

That's all changed.

Arcades are gone. Yeah, there's one 35 miles away from me, in the next city over. The jungle gyms and playgrounds were deemed dangerous and unsupervised, so they were decommissioned. You know, for "safety". And those tables? Yeah, those only encourage bums and lazy people to congregate, so they're right out.

And those clubs? Yeah, they need to pay rent if they want to have a group, so they too were summarily kicked out (Well.. it is private property :/ ). And now with less people, those food vendors started closing. That coffee shop had not enough customers and moved/closed. The rest of the food vendors (whom you've never heard of), now started skimping hard and jacking the prices.

And that's not to add in the compounding issues with online stores. A single online store can house millions of products. No real retailer can do that. So, you see the big box stores being squeezed by both the malls running people out, higher prices than online, and better selection than online. So, they end up closing and going bankrupt. It's not any one fault here, but a compound effect that set these things in motion.

For me, its that single shoe place. I make a point to park at the closest place to get in, try on shoes, and get out. There's nothing else here for me. And clothing is really the last bastion of something you really should be in person for - cause sending back stuff sucks.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by replicatorblog on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @03:47PM (#15656834)
In my town (Southern NH) the local Simon Mall actually solicits clubs. My wife's "Mom's Club" is offered freebies to host events there. E.g. they'll comp a photo package with Santa in the winter knowing that it'll get 30 middle-class moms in and shopping.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by crankylinuxuser on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @04:22PM (#15657185)
I wish our local mall would do that. I've asked, and they just flatly say no. They're already suffering pretty bad with quite a few storefronts abandoned. I think our paper said something like 20% are empty.

It'd only be a small amount of electricity used, and a bit of janitors they already have. They could pull in a few non-profit groups doing fun stuff (game club, moms club as you said, techie club, etc.) and drum up foot traffic and business. But given the doom-and-gloom article after article, I'm guessing they're looking for as many ways to cut costs as possible.

I figure our mall has a few years left. There's enough shops like "Lidz", candy stores, some weird smelly pet store, the usual 16-21 girly clothing stores, the goth store (spencers), a Target, and a few others. But the life's certainly being drained out step by step.

Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by jtmcmc on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @07:06PM (#15658450)
I had a birthday party at an aladdin's castle!
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by xeromal on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:18PM (#15655235)
Go to a mall on the weekend and tell me. Maybe the malls are dying in dead cities, but they're booming in LA who already has plenty of mom and pop shops too. Both are thriving.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by colmvp on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:21PM (#15655266)
Some of the malls in the GTA are doing quite well too, but I've noticed most of them are going upscale.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by drak0n1c on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @01:27PM (#15655335)
For many people malls are a comfortable place with free air conditioning during the summer months. Free internet also helps. I've seen McDonalds also serve a similar local function.
Re:America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning by bunderbunder on Wednesday November 08, 2017 @04:01PM (#15656991)
> Young people and groups of friends don't go to the mall on their own.

They don't go at all. Because most malls nowadays (in my area, anyway) have rules saying they have to be chaperoned by an adult.