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Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by sumitgt on Monday September 25, 2017 @08:00PM (#15335154)
Actually, why is this not a potential legitimate business model?

I let you stream content for free and you let me mine cryto-coins with your spare CPU cycles while you watch. Isn't that better for people who don't like all the tracking by ads?

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by damnstraight on Monday September 25, 2017 @08:05PM (#15335169)
It only really makes sense with browser-level cpu scheduling. Otherwise there's no real way to throttle the amount of cpu these bitcoin miners take from you.

Without that, I think people are unlikely to be sympathetic and they'll be snagged by ad blockers rapidly: consent is the cornerstone of products people like.

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by CoryHallpdp11 on Monday September 25, 2017 @11:24PM (#15335895)
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by reecree on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @01:24AM (#15336411)
This is great! Thanks!
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by Kiro on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @03:12AM (#15336784)
Why would they block miner.pr0gramm.com, which is only used in one specific place (the pr0gramm site itself) where you need to explicitly press a start button to mine?
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by zdkl on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @05:38AM (#15337318)
"More than $BIGNUM entries? These guys know what they're doing!"
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by Kiro on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @08:44AM (#15338109)
My point is that it's clear that you mine when you use their miner. You get premium points on the website as a reward. How is that shady? I think it's a perfect use case of where a web miner makes sense as an alternative monetization method.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by darawk on Monday September 25, 2017 @08:32PM (#15335283)
It's possible to throttle. Perform n hashes, wait 100ms, repeat.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by seandougall on Monday September 25, 2017 @08:55PM (#15335364)
Certainly it's possible for the script author to throttle. Not so much for the web site visitor.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by jopsen on Monday September 25, 2017 @09:06PM (#15335406)
I hope it's just a matter of time before browsers start to throttle sites...

Or maybe search rankings will be affected by CPU usage, and bandwidth.

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by flukus on Monday September 25, 2017 @09:18PM (#15335443)
Chrome has added throttling for inactive tabs. The problem is this is an active tab open for long stretches of time doing a somewhat cpu intensive task, so throttling isn't an option. I also doubt that be too adversely affected by slipping down the search rankings in this case.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by hubcaps on Monday September 25, 2017 @09:45PM (#15335556)
Bandwidth and loads time already do play a part in search rankings, at least with Google.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by swsieber on Monday September 25, 2017 @10:59PM (#15335803)
Which is a lot easier toeasure than long running CPU usage unfortunately (at least not without privacy concerns - e.g. getting real world data from users)
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by icanhackit on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @12:04AM (#15336050)
> why is this not a potential legitimate business model?

I was thinking the same thing the other day when I first heard about it. One of the main issues with existing subscription models is that some people only want to consume a small fraction of what is available from a service provider (news, music, video etc) yet have to pay a not-insignificant fee for access to everything. A good example would be the latest Star Trek series only being available in the US via CBS All Access (thankful that I'm in a country where it'll be available on Netflix).

If I could lease out my CPU for a real-time exchange of services, that'd suit me just fine. I already have accounts with an energy provider and ISP, so it's one fewer monetary relationship I need to worry about.

You could be asked on a per view basis, so by default all sites are blocked and need to ask for the exchange to be approved. You could also white-list trusted sites, or for a set period approve all requests not unlike a software firewall e.g. Little Snitch paired with an ad-blocker.

This is something the W3C should standardise at the browser level so it's not inefficient and works across different browsers effectively. It could potentially save journalism and other business models that don't jive well with existing subscription/payment structures.

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by wolco on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @01:00AM (#15336308)
Running this at full speed will turn on your fan on and having this running could damage or limit the life of your computer.

It's like driving for uber where in the end you pay more for repairs than you would in salary.

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by icanhackit on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @01:03AM (#15336321)
At the end of my post I suggested it be standardised at the browser level for this purpose. Just because the implementation sucks now doesn't mean it has to always suck.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by wolco on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @03:05AM (#15336767)
It is a non scalable model. The more people who use this the greater the rating for mining. Currently it takes 5.5 billion hashes to meet the min payment for coinhive. At full power you might get 30h/s per person on a desktop or 15h/s on a phone. If you had 10000 mobile visitors who came everyday and stayed 1 minute it would take 10000 days to get min payout: 1/2 a monero coin so about 40/50 dollars. I don't see how this will replace advertising where one affilate sale could replace this income.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by pharrington on Monday September 25, 2017 @08:59PM (#15335384)
These aren't free streaming services, and there was no disclosure, let alone consent, about the mining.

edit: And CBS most likely never ordained the mining to begin with.

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by crooked-v on Monday September 25, 2017 @08:05PM (#15335170)
Mining in Javascript will get you less than the infrastructure costs to provide the videos, let alone replacing ad revenue.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by cptskippy on Monday September 25, 2017 @09:36PM (#15335521)
What about a clever webgl shader to leverage the GPU?
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by jiggunjer on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @01:04AM (#15336327)
Or a browser that offers a first-class mining API. Then we'll see every device come with a specialized mining chip. As long as you meet the required number of hashes you get the add-free experience.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by aaron-lebo on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @03:43AM (#15336893)
Sounds like an abomination.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by jiggunjer on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @08:30AM (#15338011)
It might force devs to optimize code more, since there will never be any more spare cycles muhahaha
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by rootsudo on Monday September 25, 2017 @09:25PM (#15335468)
Not if it's free and distributed worldwide. 99% of people don't even know what these coins are, regardless of what happens in the background when a computer requests content on a server.

I see it alongside ads.

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by rhizome on Monday September 25, 2017 @09:28PM (#15335479)
No matter how many browsers are working on it?
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by edmccard on Monday September 25, 2017 @11:01PM (#15335817)
"We lose money on every sale, but we make it up in volume!"
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by tambienben on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @12:59AM (#15336301)
If were talking about new monitisation schemes, can we not entertain the thought of using newer technologies better suited to streaming at scale? I'm thinking of IPFS in particular, but there are probably other solutions as well.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by jdavis703 on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @02:14AM (#15336596)
Such as WebRTC.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by dawnerd on Monday September 25, 2017 @11:20PM (#15335880)
Whose to say it's spare cycles? How does the site know I'm not watching something in a tiny window while doing work?
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by jiggunjer on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @12:42AM (#15336234)
Or watching full-screen while a script does the work.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by ruytlm on Monday September 25, 2017 @08:20PM (#15335244)
It makes sense while the coins have value; I wonder what value they would retain if every website started doing this.

Also, I question whether it's a sensible use of electricity on the whole.

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by lurker456 on Monday September 25, 2017 @08:24PM (#15335259)
I hate it being done without informed consent. It's also a huge waste of electricity. On the plus side it could lead to micropayment funded instead of ad-funded sites.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by flukus on Monday September 25, 2017 @08:41PM (#15335306)
> I hate it being done without informed consent.

I'm more worried about the precedent, "informed consent" can always be buried deep in a T&C document.

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by rhizome on Monday September 25, 2017 @09:28PM (#15335484)
"consent" can perhaps be buried, but I doubt it would be found to be informed.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by beedogs on Monday September 25, 2017 @11:28PM (#15335914)
You know what's even better than that?

Downloading the 1080p torrent off TPB.

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by maxerickson on Monday September 25, 2017 @08:05PM (#15335171)
Which coin is worth mining on a CPU at all?
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by ringaroundthetx on Monday September 25, 2017 @08:08PM (#15335183)
Monero? Existing botnets earn $50,000/day mining on people's computers at night while finding ways to spread to additional ones.

A single computer earns pennies, a couple hundred thousand earn way more.

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by dexterdog on Monday September 25, 2017 @10:31PM (#15335715)
A single computer rarely even earns pennies.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by yuhong on Monday September 25, 2017 @09:46PM (#15335561)
It would be fun if AES-NI support was added to JavaScript engines, though it would need a standard.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by duskwuff on Monday September 25, 2017 @11:23PM (#15335891)
As far as I'm aware, AES calculations aren't a component of any cryptocurrency.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by mrb on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @12:19AM (#15336122)
Yes, Monero uses the CryptoNote PoW algorithm which uses AES.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by chii on Monday September 25, 2017 @08:58PM (#15335379)
A customer base of hundreds thousands doing streaming will cost you way more than $50k/day.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by KGIII on Monday September 25, 2017 @09:09PM (#15335413)
It doesn't have to completely cover the costs, only offset it some and be used in conjunction with other income generation methods.

Personally, I don't mind it so long as it is both fully disclosed and the ramifications fully explained - both in an accessible manner to a layperson. So long as they do that, I'm okay with it. I'm more okay with it if they give the user a simple means to opt out in a meaningful fashion.

Now, chances are exactly none of those conditions will be met in the real world. But, in principle, I am okay with it.

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by flukus on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @02:54AM (#15336713)
Unless you just package it and let youtube do the actual streaming. Imagine creating "cat-videos.com" and embedding all the youtube videos into the site but providing a better UI for browsing them.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by chii on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @05:38AM (#15337316)
But you'd get both ads and mining. The point of mining was to get rid of ads!
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by plandis on Monday September 25, 2017 @09:44PM (#15335551)
You pay us in electricity draw we didn't tell you about is a good business model?
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by dexterdog on Monday September 25, 2017 @10:32PM (#15335719)
Do people complain about the electricity draw when they're hosting a bunch of bloated flash?
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by IncRnd on Monday September 25, 2017 @10:59PM (#15335801)
Yes. That's why iOS doesn't have flash.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by pocketsquare2 on Monday September 25, 2017 @11:10PM (#15335846)
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by rmrfrmrf on Monday September 25, 2017 @08:14PM (#15335213)
It is, but the difference here is that the contracted developer added it to mine coins for themselves.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by jaxn on Monday September 25, 2017 @09:02PM (#15335389)
That seems likely to me too, but did the article say that? Or is there another source?
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by rmrfrmrf on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @12:05AM (#15336060)
In the article:

> "Upon reviewing our products and code, the HTML comments shown in the screenshot that are referencing newrelic were not injected by New Relic's agents. It appears they were added to the website by its developers."

> [Coin Hive] did confirm to us, however, that the email address used to set up the account was a personal one, and was not an official CBS email address, further suggesting malicious activity.

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by jaxn on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @08:20AM (#15337948)
Yeah, it was obvious it was never NewRelic. But it is not obvious if it was a contractor, and employee, or someone who gained access through other means.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by simias on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @04:41AM (#15337129)
Given the difficulty of mining any worthwhile cryptocurrency these days (even using GPU farms instead of a web browser running on a tablet or underpowered laptop) I doubt it'd generate enough revenue to make up for the loss of ads or other micropayment options.

Furthermore you can't even fix the price of the payment since you're at the mercy of the hash difficulty and the cryptocurrency value. Doesn't seem like a very good business model to me.

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by cesarb on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @07:13AM (#15337658)
> spare CPU cycles

"Spare CPU cycles" were only a thing back in the 90's, when CPUs ran at a fixed frequency, and it didn't make much difference whether it was running useful code or waiting in the idle loop. Nowadays, the frequency and voltage vary depending on whether the CPU is being used or not, so instead of "spare cycles" doing nothing the CPU powers itself down.

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by phjesusthatguy3 on Monday September 25, 2017 @10:22PM (#15335686)
the only in-browser miner I've seen sucked up CPU whether it was spare or not.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by merkaloid on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @06:55AM (#15337596)
Because if this becomes mainstream, people will come to know what crypto currency and mining is and wonder why arent they mining it themselves (more effectively so using native clients instead of shitty js miners) instead of giving them to others in exchange for content they were getting anyway with adblock.

Greed basically.

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by ceejayoz on Monday September 25, 2017 @08:22PM (#15335250)
Doing it on my laptop probably means I won't even finish the episode before I run out of batteries.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by rdiddly on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @02:14AM (#15336584)
There needs to be consent on both sides, for it to enter the realm of legitimacy.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by kuschku on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @04:29AM (#15337087)
So, you cut my phone’s battery runtime to nothing, cost me 10 to 100x more than you get yourself in electricity (German electricity prices are north of 0.40$ per kWh), and with a few dozen tabs my system crashes?

No thanks.

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by schwede on Monday September 25, 2017 @10:58PM (#15335797)
It might be okay if it was clearly explained and legit.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by stwrong on Monday September 25, 2017 @09:49PM (#15335572)
It is a business model. VPN service windscribe offers free Pro service (apparently) if you let it mine certain threshold of coins on your browser.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by Nursie on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @05:56AM (#15337390)
Well at the moment, likely because people aren't being told about it...
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by ransom1538 on Monday September 25, 2017 @10:15PM (#15335666)
iphones are a much better vector.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by Flott on Monday September 25, 2017 @10:10PM (#15335653)
Not all computer are built to do heavy computing. My poor Mac mini would probably melt after a few minutes of mining.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by hellbanner on Monday September 25, 2017 @08:02PM (#15335162)
Interesting, you should apply to YC 2018!
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by indiv0 on Monday September 25, 2017 @10:39PM (#15335743)
On a similar note, I wonder how much money the Chinese government could make if they used the method they used to DDoS Github [0], but instead to load crypto-coin mining JavaScript onto every Baidu user's computer?

Then again, that seems like one of the fastest ways to make the average citizen actually angry at the Great Firewall.

[0]: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/03/massi...

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by labster on Monday September 25, 2017 @10:49PM (#15335774)
The Chinese government is working hard to decrease pollution, not add additional stress on the power grid. Incentives change when you're the one responsible for all the externalities.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by duskwuff on Monday September 25, 2017 @11:22PM (#15335884)
The GFW works both ways. That attack injected code into Chinese browsers viewing sites outside the GFW, but it could just as easily inject code into browsers outside the GFW viewing Chinese sites...