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Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by random023987 on Monday August 21, 2017 @12:11PM (#15065566)
And how many of those searches are initiated by MS spyware that watches what you type in the start menu?

(If you have a Windows computer with default privacy settings, press the Start key; type a few letters. You just "searched" Bing)

Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by nolok on Monday August 21, 2017 @12:19PM (#15065623)
Aren't Firefox/Ubuntu/Chrome doing the same for Google (eg type a few letters and they search for suggestions in their local db [bookmarks, history, ...] but also make a remote search for more) ?

Not saying this as anti-Google, pro-Microsoft or pro/anti anyone, merely agreeing with you that the "% of {area|time|...} search" means absolutely nothing.

Especially in the context that matters for potential Bing customers, aka ads buyers: I don't care about how many search there are, I care about how many people can see my ad.

Of course no big search entity has any interest of giving those "real search" numbers, neither the front runner nor the underdog.

Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by jeltz on Monday August 21, 2017 @12:28PM (#15065702)
Ubuntu got a lot of shit for doing that with Amazon so I think they stopped doing it, and Firefox has as far as I know never done a remote search until you press enter, the suggestions in the bar are all based on local data.
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by sz4kerto on Monday August 21, 2017 @01:17PM (#15066020)
Firefox absolutely does run searches after you agree into it after installation.
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by mehs on Monday August 21, 2017 @01:33PM (#15066129)
AFAIK it doesn't on address bar but of course it does on search bar for suggestions. That's why they were keeping the two separate.
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by lower on Monday August 21, 2017 @01:49PM (#15066233)
There is a setting to enable suggestions also in the location bar (off by default, I think).
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by abrowne on Monday August 21, 2017 @01:42PM (#15066191)
But you do have to agree first. I find predictive search distracting, so I've never turned it on.
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by TrinaryWorksToo on Monday August 21, 2017 @01:32PM (#15066120)
At least it's opt-in though, unlike windows.
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by skizm on Monday August 21, 2017 @01:26PM (#15066089)
I'd argue people know (even expect) they are searching Google when they type in a browser address bar. No one wants Bing search results when they type in the start menu.
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by moreorless on Monday August 21, 2017 @01:52PM (#15066252)
> I'd argue people know (even expect) they are searching Google when they type in a browser address bar. No one wants Bing search results when they type in the start menu.

NO!! I don't expect to be searching Google when I type something into the browser address bar. That is what the search bar is for.

Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by lugg on Monday August 21, 2017 @09:35PM (#15069103)
Whats your reasoning for holding out on this?

Keyboard shortcut? Privacy concerns?

Honestly curious because I feel the search bar has long since been made redundant. The only people I see using it in the wild is my parents/their friends.

Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by perfectstorm on Monday August 21, 2017 @01:48PM (#15066223)
> No one wants Bing search results when they type in the start menu

I don't understand why people speak for the whole population. I'm sure MS runs Analytics for these and would've killed it off if "no one" wants it.

Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by herbst on Monday August 21, 2017 @02:15PM (#15066438)
This does not sound like a thing Microsoft would do at all. It is one of those small annoyances people just will get used to
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by random023987 on Monday August 21, 2017 @02:30PM (#15066562)
> I'm sure MS runs Analytics for these and would've killed it off if "no one" wants it.

Microsoft users do not want it.

Microsoft customers want it.

In case it's not obvious, when Windows was given away for free, the users were no longer customers, and transitioned to become "product".

Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by marcosdumay on Monday August 21, 2017 @01:55PM (#15066280)
Firefox isn't. It has a separated search bar and won't send any data over the wires when using the address bar. Ubuntu also changed back from their "we are entitled into spying on anything" opinion, and aren't starting remote searches automatically either.

Anyway, wether those automatic searches will display the ads or not is a different issue. Many will.

Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by lucb1e on Monday August 21, 2017 @02:28PM (#15066538)
> Firefox [...] has a separated search bar and won't send any data over the wires when using the address bar

It can does offer suggestions from the address bar, but only after you click "yes I want this". Same for the search bar.

What you say sounds like the search bar does send keypresses and like the address bar can't (both are incorrect).

Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by marcosdumay on Monday August 21, 2017 @07:44PM (#15068698)
For the address bar, is it some setting hidden in about.config? I have never found it.

Normal address bar suggestions come from local data stores, not from a search provider. (And I tough both suggestions were enabled by default, but well, it's been many years since I last configured a fresh Firefox install.)

Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by lucb1e on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @01:05AM (#15069862)
They've started asking for the opt-in to include search suggestions for a few months now if I remember correctly. Right in the address bar itself, no funny config setting.
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by lucb1e on Monday August 21, 2017 @02:26PM (#15066515)
Firefox asks you first "do you want search suggestions", both for the search bar and for the address bar.
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by dean177 on Monday August 21, 2017 @06:18PM (#15068250)
I expect those things from a web browser, I don't expect it from an application launcher.
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by lugg on Monday August 21, 2017 @09:38PM (#15069109)
Basically one in the same these days no?

iirc mac os also does this with the cmd+space launcher. I think maybe even gnomes launcher does this as well.

Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by jameskegel on Monday August 21, 2017 @12:27PM (#15065698)
Actually, for a while, Ubuntu tried to do this with Amazon. I'm not sure if it is still there, I doubt it, but I remember the unity-advertising-lens-removal fix being pretty popular at the time.
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by harrygeez on Monday August 21, 2017 @01:20PM (#15066039)
The double standards are strong here.
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by vanviegen on Monday August 21, 2017 @01:34PM (#15066130)
How so? It's Microsoft that's making pretty bold claims based on these numbers, not Google.
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by blocked_again on Monday August 21, 2017 @01:39PM (#15066164)
TBH if Google was in 2nd position they would have done the same.
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by gnicholas on Monday August 21, 2017 @12:54PM (#15065873)
Ditto for asking Siri anything that she cannot handle via specialized search conduits (weather, sports scores, etc.). Anything else ends up as a web search powered by Bing, and its tallied even if it was useless and unused.

This often happens to me when I'm exploring the edges of what Siri can do (which is much less than Alexa or Google's assistant). It also happens when Siri mis-hears me and can't properly route the search query to weather, sports, or whatever handler would have been appropriate.

And note that while it is possible to change Safari's default search engine, it is not possible to make these Siri searches run on anything other than Bing. I'm sure Apple is being paid handsomely (and keeping some valuable data out of Google's hands).

Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by cma on Monday August 21, 2017 @12:26PM (#15065673)
Yeah, it isn't a coincidence that windows 10 was the first "free" major OS upgrade from MS and then we see numbers like this.
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by nolok on Monday August 21, 2017 @12:28PM (#15065701)
Weren't Windows 7 and 8 already having "web search" enabled for the start menu ? I'm sure it was there, but not if that was default behavior or if it needed to be enabled.

Not a Windows 10 introduction, although that one tends to find any excuse it can to call home.

Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by lucb1e on Monday August 21, 2017 @02:29PM (#15066549)
Maybe Windows 8? Because definitely not 7. I think it offered you to "search the internet" (aka bing), but it didn't do that by itself, you had to click that option.
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by adventured on Monday August 21, 2017 @01:35PM (#15066142)
Microsoft doesn't yield enough sales or profit from Bing for such a thing to matter at all, versus the profit given up from the free upgrade on their single most profitable product. Bing is a financial joke compared to Windows and always will be.

The free upgrade was to get people off of 7 and 8. Windows 7 was an aging product that people were reluctant to give up, and Windows 8 was a disaster that was accelerating the erosion of Windows and doing damage to a brand worth tens of billions of dollars. Windows 8 was acting as a product generation blockade, most 7 users didn't want to touch it, and people who bought it had a poor experience. Bing had nothing to do with the free upgrade at all.

Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by cma on Monday August 21, 2017 @09:14PM (#15069015)
The upgrade changed your search provider to Bing unless you were very careful, I believe in more than one place. It also tries hard to default you to Edge which would take you to Bing. And I believe it added lots of new agreements on tracking. There is now a Cortana/Bing voice search service that can't really be fully turned off that came with it or one of thelater upgrades I think.
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by _Codemonkeyism on Monday August 21, 2017 @12:19PM (#15065617)
a.) yes

b.) I don't like or use that feature

c.) But aren't that searches?

Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by nolok on Monday August 21, 2017 @12:21PM (#15065641)
To your C), see my other comment on this same thread. Yes, and it's valid in a "which search engine handles the biggest amount of search".

But what matters money wise for their share holders, for you as a potential customer (ad buyer), ... is not how many search they take on, it's how many times your ads can be seen. And in that context, those aren't worth anything.

(of course that is until they try to embed ads there, but since even Google hasn't found a way yet I don't see Microsoft taking the first step)

Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by _Codemonkeyism on Monday August 21, 2017 @01:21PM (#15066046)
Yes, but every search taken on Bing is less money for Google.
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by philipodonnell on Monday August 21, 2017 @01:29PM (#15066105)
I think the point is that this type of search isn't worth anything to anyone because it can't result in an ad being displayed. It benefits MS because they can talk about big "search" numbers, but no one else cares.
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by _Codemonkeyism on Monday August 21, 2017 @02:07PM (#15066377)
If as a Win10 user I'm getting used to searching in the "Start" menu I'm not going to google.com
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by jerf on Monday August 21, 2017 @02:26PM (#15066520)
The point is that if you're searching for "n", "no", "not", "note", "notep", "notepa" and "notepad" because you typed a bit slowly into your start menu, those 7 searches count for nothing by any useful metric, be it either anything a human was interested in, or anything an advertiser is interested it. Google doesn't lose out a search because typing "notepad" into the Start menu never meant a desire to search the internet in the first place. If Bing is counting those as searches they aren't very "real". I say "if" because I don't have any direct knowledge.
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by _Codemonkeyism on Monday August 21, 2017 @03:05PM (#15066856)
The point is that if you're searching for "n", "no", "not", "note", "notep", "notepa" and "notepad" [...] "notepad help" because you typed a bit slowly into your google search field, those 11 searches count for nothing by any useful metric, be it either anything a human was interested in, or anything an advertiser is interested it.
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by jerf on Monday August 21, 2017 @03:54PM (#15067313)
Thank you for repeating my point back at me...? I find myself seriously wondering if you're a bot?
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by _Codemonkeyism on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @12:07AM (#15069618)
You haven't read my comment.
Re:“Bing is bigger than you think,” Microsoft boasts, at 33%... by RugnirViking on Tuesday August 22, 2017 @09:22AM (#15072082)
Google doesn't search on every letter you type.