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Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by idlewords on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:04PM (#14869506)
This is a contender for the greatest work of Russian literature in the 20th century. The Bergin/O'Connor translation is a good one. Even if you don't get the references or historical context, you'll still enjoy reading it. Giant talking cat!

As pvg points out, Kevin Moss's notes (http://cr.middlebury.edu/bulgakov/public_html/) will reveal whole new layers of the onion when you re-read the book.

Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by StavrosK on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:16PM (#14869642)
I'm an hour away from finishing the book, and goddamn I cannot get into it at all. It's just a bunch of random stuff happening without much connection. What is the appeal?
Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by geoka9 on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:34PM (#14869817)
Which edition/translation are you reading?

EDIT:

For me, the appeal is in the interplay of the ultra paranoid and cynical life in the Stalinist USSR and the supernatural and goofy exploits of the Devil and his entourage who happen to visit Moscow.

The love story between the two main human characters is just the icing on the cake, but in my opinion not that important.

Not to mention that the "book within the book" about Pontius Pilate provided an entertaining intro to one of the fundamental Biblical stories for the atheist me, although now I tend to skip it when I re-read the book every once in a while.

EDIT2: Forgot to mention that the style it is written in (in Russian) is unique; it's very tongue-in-cheek: respectful to the established order and authorities on the surface but derisively satirical underneath. Nobody else wrote like that.

Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by StavrosK on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:58PM (#14869996)
(After your edits:)

Hmm, yes, I do agree that it is interesting to see how everyone reacts to accusations of "holding foreign currency", but I think I'm missing most of the humour because I just don't know what it was like to live in a Stalinist sociopolitical climate.

I did enjoy the sub-book about Pontius Pilate indeed, and I also agree that the style feels very unique. I think the story with the Devil is just an excuse to orchestrate these unique situations and write the satirical/subversive reactions. I think that's what I don't like, the disjointed narrative without much of an arc, because I'm missing most of the subtext that is the payoff for the scenes.

Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by narrator on Thursday July 27, 2017 @07:06PM (#14870527)
The closest modern day equivalent to living in Stalinist Russia in the 30s is North Korea. At the slightest suspicion that one was somehow demonstrating disloyalty to the Soviet state one could be hauled away to be tortured and executed or sent to the Siberian Gulag to be slowly worked to death.

Bulgakov's writings, if discovered, would have lead to him being executed. To people who lived in the system, their was an unacknowledged understanding that something bad was happening as people would mysteriously disappear on a regular basis. The movie "The Inner Circle" ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103838/plotsummary?ref_=tt_ov_p... ) and "Burnt By The Sun" ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111579/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 ) are good depictions of what life was like during those times. It makes the high anxiety and paranoia of most characters in M & M much more understandable.

Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by smsm42 on Friday July 28, 2017 @04:58AM (#14872923)
There are deeper things in play there. Bulgakov had very peculiar relationship with Stalin. He hoped, against all odds and reason, that Stalin would read the book and like it and would protect him. That is what the scene when Woland talks to the Master about his novel is about. Stalin actually kind of did help Bulgakov somewhat, and enabled his works to be produced in theaters (without which Bulgakov would not have any means to support himself). It was kind of cat and mouse game which Stalin, having a sadistic streak, loved to play - one day he helped Bulgakov, another day reverted everything back. But Bulgakov sincerely hoped that Stalin would personally read the book and like it. That, of course, never happened and probably couldn't happen.
Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by pvg on Friday July 28, 2017 @01:20AM (#14872163)
Bulgakov's writings, if discovered, would have lead to him being executed.

Bulgakov and his writings were well known to the authorities.

Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by pvg on Thursday July 27, 2017 @11:11PM (#14871656)
but I think I'm missing most of the humour because I just don't know what it was like to live in a Stalinist sociopolitical climate.

I think this is a bit of a red herring - the book is funny throughout and the humour is not dependent on a deep knowledge of the sociopolitical climate (which, incidentally, was not yet quite 'Stalinist'). I first read it in my mid-teens (in Russian) and didn't catch a bunch of that stuff either - but it was funny. Just like you don't need to know an awful lot about 19th century Britain to grasp the wry tone and irony in Austen or Dickens.

Try reading the Burgin/O'Connor translation and see how it goes. It's possible it might still not work for you but an audiobook of some unknown translation is an unfortunately pessimal way to approach this particular work - you're now dealing with not one but two layers of interpretation of a difficult-to-translate book.

Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by StavrosK on Sunday July 30, 2017 @02:13PM (#14887108)
It turns out that it was, indeed, the Burgin/O'Connor translation, and the reader was also very good.

Maybe I just spent too much time looking for an overarching plot instead of enjoying the ludicrous situations.

Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by geoka9 on Thursday July 27, 2017 @06:05PM (#14870068)
This happens to be my favorite book, so I'm sorry to hear that. I was recently recommending it to a Romanian friend (who doesn't read Russian) and I was hoping he would be able to relate to it since he's from an ex-Soviet bloc country.
Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by StavrosK on Thursday July 27, 2017 @06:27PM (#14870244)
Ah, yes, if he grew up during (or shortly after) that era, he would probably relate to it much more than I did.
Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by StavrosK on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:39PM (#14869857)
Ah, I'm not quite sure, it's an Audiobook from Audible.
Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by tptacek on Friday July 28, 2017 @04:29PM (#14877313)
FWIW, it looks like Audible's version is Karpelson.
Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by Tomte on Saturday July 29, 2017 @10:38AM (#14881420)
For German speakers: Bayerischer Rundfunk has it as a radio drama, free for download. The text is slightly compressed, I think.

But the speakers are first-rate, especially Koroviev in a gorgeous Austrian dialect.

Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by pvg on Saturday July 29, 2017 @03:27PM (#14882660)
Do you have a link to that?
Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by Tomte on Saturday July 29, 2017 @05:00PM (#14882984)
It's this one: http://www.br.de/radio/bayern2/inhalt/hoerspiel-und-medienku...

But I cannot find the download link. br.de is simply impossible to use. I've downloaded it a few months ago, and I remember it was difficult to find then, as well.

Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by pvg on Saturday July 29, 2017 @06:51PM (#14883379)
Yeah, I googled my way there as well (and to 17 other similar pages on br.de) with no luck.
Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by idlewords on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:24PM (#14869731)
The twist ending!

It's hard to answer this question. Is there any Russian literature you've read and enjoyed?

Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by StavrosK on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:42PM (#14869876)
Oops, there's a twist ending? I might just skip this thread and come back in a few days, then...

I'm afraid I haven't read much other Russian literature, as I prefer scifi, so the closest I got to the Eastern bloc is Lem...

I think my main problem with Master and Margarita is that I don't know much about the context of the era, and it feels like most of the book is subtle jabs at the society and political climate of the time.

Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by int_19h on Thursday July 27, 2017 @09:19PM (#14871177)
As far as sci-fi, you should try Strugatsky books.
Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by smsm42 on Friday July 28, 2017 @05:03AM (#14872938)
Second that, but I'd probably stay away from early books by Strugatskys - they are kind of naive and would only work for a real hardcore fan. Later ones are much deeper.
Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by smsm42 on Friday July 28, 2017 @01:41PM (#14876054)
Bulgakov also did sci-fi - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fatal_Eggs

I'm not sure it would work in translation though - as the plot goes, it would be kind of simple, especially for our 21th century eyes, but the inimitable Bulgakov style adds a lot.

Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by idlewords on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:57PM (#14869987)
No, I was messing with you.

Kevin Moss's site linked upthread is a good place to start for context that may make you retroactively enjoy the book more.

Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by StavrosK on Thursday July 27, 2017 @05:58PM (#14870001)
Damn. I have that tab open to get back to after I've finished the book, thanks!
Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by gonubalabala on Thursday July 27, 2017 @10:23PM (#14871439)
It's a closure ending, and by now you understand that any closure to what you've read must involve some sort of twist.
Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by garrybelka on Thursday July 27, 2017 @11:49PM (#14871811)
Mandelstam was writing in the XXth century.

Who could be other contenders?

Solzh? Iskander? Rasputin? Nabokov?

The Faculty of Useless Knowledge? Life and Fate? Moscow - Petushki?

Re:In the Face of Constant Censorship, Bulgakov Kept Writing by idlewords on Friday July 28, 2017 @07:34PM (#14878439)
Andrei Bely. Nabokov considered Petersburg one of the top four novels of the century (his other three were Ulysses, The Metamorphosis and In Search Of Lost Time).