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Re:The Boring Company FAQ by djsumdog on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @01:40AM (#14355920)
But even with the stations, escalators and everything else, you're talking about orders of magnitude between trains and cars. London during peak hour has trains arriving less than 1 min 30 sec apart. They move an absolutely insane amount of people. Singapore's trains are entirely automated and arrive at <2min intervals at peak.

Everything about Musk's idea seems absolutely terrible. If America had better trains and subways, it could move massive amounts of people. Train automation is a solved problem, and currently implemented in cities around the world. There is absolutely no possible way in any reality where individual car/pod transport could even approach the capacity of real mass transit:

http://penguindreams.org/blog/self-driving-cars-will-not-sol...

Americans need to get over our wasteful individualism, our "alone time" in cars and realize you can read a book, watch a movie or do something not involving driving on real public transport. Buses need to stop being just a means of transport for the poor.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by prostoalex on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @04:16AM (#14356523)
> If America had better trains and subways, it could move massive amounts of people. Train automation is a solved problem, and currently implemented in cities around the world.

In most European cities, if you get off at train station, you're in the midst of (or very close to) the city center, office locations, touristy walking sites and plenty of choices for retail or food.

In the US once you get off at the train station, well, you're at the train station, and now need a car to go anywhere you actually need to go. NYC and SF are likely to be the only exception - train stations as close as LA or San Jose are fairly sparse and have limited connections.

You can run the fastest most frequent train you can handle, and California in fact is building one between Borden and Corcoran, but the "step 2" in US cities generally involves getting a car.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by aninhumer on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @06:39AM (#14357166)
Yes, and station location is an aspect in which US trains could be made better, by building new ones.
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by lmm on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @07:38AM (#14357455)
There is no right place for a train station in a sprawling city. An effective train station needs a certain amount of stuff within walking distance, which is only possible if the city is built that way.
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by djsumdog on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @01:10PM (#14360473)
They didn't become sprawling cities on their own. If you plant down rail, the city reshapes over time. The areas right next to stations becomes high value retail space. Their sales immediately jump up. Rails literally change the commerce and economy around their points.
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by ant6n on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @09:37AM (#14358249)
The best place to build a rain station in a sprawling city is where you can build a small city centre around it. (Hint: it's not asking a highway)
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by noobermin on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @08:34AM (#14357768)
For many cities, not just NYC and SF, but yes, it is true only for major cities.

EDIT: embellishment due to baq, this tends to be true of cities which developed before the car revolution of the 50's and 60's. For example, my city has a pretty poor average walkability score, but for where I live in the city core, it is very walkable since it is the older part of the city.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by baq on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @09:11AM (#14358039)
s/major/old/ which were growing when rail first appeared in them. otherwise it's not reasonable to plan the city to have rail sometime in the future.
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by Atheros on Friday May 19, 2017 @08:43PM (#14380371)
> In the US once you get off at the train station, well, you're at the train station, and now need a car to go anywhere you actually need to go.

This lesson seems to have been lost for some reason but infrastructure is to be built first, destinations second. Much of the New York City Subway system, like in the Bronx, was built through farmland. Once the infrastructure was built, destinations (dense residential) was built. It has to work that way. It's not practical to expect there to be any destinations available when the subway opens- people need a few decades to rearrange themselves.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by sethrin on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @09:01AM (#14357976)
> NYC and SF are likely to be the only exception

Portland should probably join that list.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by euyyn on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @12:11PM (#14359855)
And the Boston metro area.
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by willhslade on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @12:39PM (#14360145)
And Toronto and Montreal.
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by philwelch on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @01:48AM (#14355963)
If you own a car company, you want cars to be a big part of the transportation system.
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by factsaresacred on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @03:44AM (#14356396)
> Everything about Musk's idea seems absolutely terrible.

Depends what his goal is. Currently getting from A to B in a car at a certain time involves traffic jams.

If his goal is to get from A to B most efficiently in a car then it's one of the best ideas.

If his goal is get people from A to B via any mode of transport, perhaps trains. But he owns a car company, so that's not exactly in his interest.

Also with cars it's truly A to B. Not A to subway/carpark, wait, travel, walk to B.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by SargoDarya on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @03:50AM (#14356415)
I think you guys all forget the point that it's not only for cars but also for cargo which makes this a lot better.
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by Symmetry on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @08:18AM (#14357660)
This system applies to moving people just as much as moving cars. But for political reasons it makes sense to emphasize the extent to which this is about car owners.
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by MichaelMoser123 on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @06:50AM (#14357206)
also what about safety? If there is an accident then you will have a huge pile of cars/sleds crashing into each other; How do you get injured out of a narrow tunnel? What about fires? What about ventilation (in case of fire) ? These are all problems of tunnels, now the narrow tunnel makes these problems more difficult to deal with.
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by Robotbeat on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @08:24AM (#14357701)
No, you'll have at most one. The cars will be networked and by having a vertical rail will be able to brake very quickly.
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by jlebrech on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @04:17AM (#14356532)
there's nothing stopping a specially sized bus from using the system or cyclists (if they adapt it right.)
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by schiffern on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @05:21AM (#14356806)
The video on their homepage shows a cyclist on a "minibus" pod at 0:45. https://i.imgur.com/2QkC5YK.png
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by jlebrech on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @06:10AM (#14357026)
nice catch
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by rurban on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @01:59AM (#14356004)
Absolutely. And the biggest problem is what to do with all those cars in the city. It's an enormous waste of space to park all those cars, besides the enormous hazards of the moving cars, not being to be able to walk. It destroyed cities.

That's why public mass transport was created and was so successful in the big cities. US big automotive destroyed most of this working infrastructure in the last century (E.g. Los Angeles, Houston, ...) but it's still cheaper to build mass transport than to support individual transport. Just ask a New Yorker or a foreigner.

Tunnels are a hazard for individual traffic. That's why pods do help. But trains are still preferred.

It's a good alternative idea to build long range tunnels. He is right. But the focus needs to be mass transport, not individual. It's a matter of costs.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by Already__Taken on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @05:44AM (#14356910)
If there's a tunneled transport infrastructure with cars moving around on sleds, you just need a few mile length tunnels off in nowhere and you've made a robot parking garage.

You could rent your car back to the system to use as a lounge for people who want to travel but didn't bring a car to get on the network. Saves you parking costs, maybe an operator could work out paying you for that.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by rurban on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @07:34AM (#14357437)
Yes, you could do that in midsized cities with underdeveloped public transport. Because there you would need a car, esp. when buying bigger stuff.

But for big cities trains are much better and cheaper.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by politician on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @02:46AM (#14356171)
> And the biggest problem is what to do with all those cars in the city.

Tunnels are great parking structures. Cars on sleds provide a great interface to said parking structure. Heck, NYC has automated parking structures with car elevators and sleds. The only imagination required is not having to dig a big hole down to the depth of the lowest level of the garage first.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by BurningFrog on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @02:18AM (#14356069)
One problem is that trains only move an insane amount of people that are all going the same way.

Another problem is that all those people have to walk to and from the end station.

A "packet switched" system of sending individual cars at high speed solves both those problems, and going just by my gut feel, should have a quite high throughput too.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by ACow_Adonis on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @03:38AM (#14356366)
Here in Melbourne, I used to have a bit of a "gut feel" that it might not be efficient to give over two entire lanes of our roads to our light rail vehicles. Having two lanes sit empty for so long between trams seemed so wasteful. And for what, a single vehicle to come through every minute or two?

Then I sat at an intersection one day and counted how many individuals were being moved through two lanes of regular car traffic vs how many came through on the light rail.

I was shocked by how inefficient regular traffic is.

So now MY gut feel is that without any technological breakthrough, this sort of system would already be starting with an order of magnitude disadvantage: which is to say, shockingly inefficient compared to allready available technology and solutions...

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by so33 on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @02:24AM (#14356094)
>One problem is that trains only move an insane amount of people that are all going the same way. Another problem is that all those people have to walk to and from the end station. A "packet switched" system of sending individual cars at high speed solves both those problems, and going just by my gut feel, should have a quite high throughput too.

People are walking from the station to these giant office towers in central London. The walk from the Tube station to the office must only take 5-10 minutes, total. My gut feeling says the throughput won't be high specifically because you'll have 800 or so people trying to get out at the same place at roughly the same time.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by BurningFrog on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @02:08PM (#14361086)
Sure, this system works great in the center of one of the biggest cities in the world. That's not in dispute.

Where mass transit struggles is in getting people from one arbitrary spot to another at an arbitrary time.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by lmm on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @07:40AM (#14357471)
The throughput will be tiny because cars take up so much space. http://humantransit.org/2012/09/the-photo-that-explains-almo...
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by monk_e_boy on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @09:09AM (#14358026)
And cars more inefficiently in groups. When at lights, the first car pulls away, then the second, etc etc...

There is a delay between each car which after 20 cars really adds up.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by BurningFrog on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @03:44PM (#14362146)
This doesn't apply to the centrally controlled car delivery system Musk is planning.
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by schiffern on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @04:27PM (#14362484)
> This doesn't apply to the centrally controlled car delivery system Musk is planning.

How would that work? Now it's true that there won't be any delays caused by drivers not paying attention, but unless the cars will go 125 mph with only a couple meters of space between them (eep!) the cars will require a non-zero delay "off the line" to allow them to spread out as they gain speed.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by BurningFrog on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @05:17PM (#14362868)
I don't think they need any space between them as long as they're on the same path. They're parked on centrally controlled carriages.

How fast they can fork and merge is more interesting, and I dare not have an opinion about that.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by lmm on Thursday May 18, 2017 @03:54AM (#14365536)
Centrally controlled trains are still required to be spaced out by their stopping distance. The only way this or hyperloop will do better than trains is through regulatory arbitrage.
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by Piskvorrr on Thursday May 18, 2017 @08:00AM (#14366497)
Quite the opposite: the requirement to be spaced out by their stopping distance is regulatory arbitrage; if the design was "it might, in corner cases, crash and injure people, but who cares, they knew the risk", you could run trains far closer together (which happens all the time in manually controlled streetcars: tailgate the other tram and pray the guy in front won't slam the brakes).
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by lmm on Thursday May 18, 2017 @09:17AM (#14366913)
Regulatory arbitrage is when you profit from a difference in regulations. If someone could figure out how to run a train but have it regulated as a car (with car-like safety properties) they would be able to run an extremely high-capacity service; I suspect this is Musk's gameplan.
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by BurningFrog on Thursday May 18, 2017 @11:43PM (#14372871)
They all change speed at the same time, so there is no need to space them out.
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by prawn on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @06:11AM (#14357032)
Why are you assuming that there won't be minivans on the sleds? Or a larger format sled that can accommodate a bus-sized transport or a mid-size truck?

I think in the original video, they showed a pod with a group of commuters.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by picosat on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @02:21AM (#14356080)
The American obsession with "alone time" is exactly why Musk's idea is the only effective way to relieve the traffic problem. Americans are adverse to change, and the result of this is a solution needs to leverage our existing infrastructure. Putting the cars on sleds allows people to keep the luxury and flexibility of personal cars without requiring a lifestyle shift.

Furthermore, a solution that leverages personal vehicles is slightly more viable for a private sector company. Telsa can continue to promote their car sales without that having a negative effect on the Boring Company.

This idea that a company can replace our entire existing infrastructure with a train/bus system is just purely impractical. There is the solution that seems the most obvious (current public transit), and then there is the one that is actually viable from a business perspective.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by Cthulhu_ on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @03:14AM (#14356273)
> Americans are adverse to change

I don't get it, where does that come from anyway? I mean America's mostly a country of immigrants; most inhabitants' forefathers, only a couple generations ago, abandoned everything they know to build up a new life. If that's not change, then IDK what is.

I think that at one point it's not about what they want - having the option even to drive anywhere is a luxury a lot of people don't have - it's what's practical. Driving in New York isn't practical, so people take the tube - regular services, high capacity, etc. There's no way a tunnel system with individual cars, which will have a much lower capacity than a regular road, will be able to compete, neither on cost nor capacity.

Of course, if you're rich then it doesn't matter. I'm sure it'll work in SF, where there should be plenty of people that can afford it.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by TeMPOraL on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @05:48AM (#14356928)
> I don't get it, where does that come from anyway?

The best answer I have: the more people are individualistic, the more difficult it is for them to coordinate. Big changes like fundamental infrastructure require collective buy-in, and when you have lots of self-interested individuals who stand to gain by introducing friction into the process, costs skyrocket.

The alternative ends of the spectrum (it's not 1D) of that is more social people (dream utopia, I don't know where it exists, if at all) and more authoritarian control (easiest way to coordinate people is to have someone unilaterally decide for them).

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by criddell on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @01:06PM (#14360430)
> The best answer I have

That's an excellent answer and I think you are right. Car culture is a big deal in the US and I think the perceived independence it represents is part of the reason why.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by falsedan on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @03:42AM (#14356390)
> I don't get it, where does that come from anyway?

Let's:

* replace tipping with a minimum wage which helping working people get out of poverty

* make checks obsolete

* etc.

> Driving in New York isn't practical, so people take the tube

The what now? I think you'll find it's actually called le Métropolitain

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by prawn on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @06:13AM (#14357051)

  - Eliminate small coins
  - Move to metric in a practical sense rather than just official
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by mnw21cam on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @05:42AM (#14356903)
> * make checks obsolete

Uh? What? Please explain - are you expecting everything to go fine the first time, because in the history of the world, that almost never happens.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by ascorbic on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @06:01AM (#14356985)
cheques
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by falsedan on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @08:12AM (#14357618)
comment of the year imo
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by mnw21cam on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @07:06AM (#14357295)
Ah.
Re:The Boring Company FAQ by picosat on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @01:40PM (#14360791)
I think LA is an even better example of where it will work. There are no trains, and the bus system is very poor.

The tunnels obviously don't make sense in places that have well established train systems, but a lot of places don't have that. Often in America, the only 'practical' way to get around is using a personal vehicle.

Re:The Boring Company FAQ by marssaxman on Wednesday May 17, 2017 @02:20PM (#14361231)
Your information is out of date - over the last 20 or so years, LA has built itself a train network:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Rail_(Los_Angeles_County...